I've been on a ketogenic diet for a year now and sleep has been the biggest thing. I was a light, restless sleeper and I noticed very quickly how how much better my sleep got. I'd fall asleep quicker and it feels (and tracks) deeper. I don't wake as much, sweat nearly as much when I sleep and wake up feeling far more rested.
Sleep aside, I don't sweat nearly as much during the day and I've shaken almost most all the IBS related problems I had. Feels a bit like a miracle. Trouble is, I wish (much like the article) I could understand exactly what it was that I cut out that made the biggest difference. Bread? Alliums? Fructose?
I guess the only way would be to reintroduce things slowly and test, or revert back to a carb heavy diet and remove stuff one by one... But when you're (finally) feeling great you don't want to mess it up :-/
I've found with me that, after trying keto for ages and loving how I felt but hating the diet itself, I managed to pin point the issue down to grains. Any form of grain, be it rice, wheat, barley, oats etc, all seemed to mess me up big style. I'n now on a diet of mostly fruit, nuts, beans, seeds and tubers and I'm better than I was on keto on almost every measurable factor. I think cutting out the carbs initially improves the lives of most people because it's a group of food that contains the biggest offenders in terms of IBS related trigger, but it's rarely carbohydrate in itself.
In terms of reintroducing foods, don't go back to carbs and cut back! You're just setting yourself up to fail. Just reintroduce carbs slowly up. Start with tubers and root veg, as from what I've read they're often the easiest in terms of digestion. Then move on to fruits, then nuts, then seeds, then finish with grains. It could well be you're gluten intolerant so there are only a few types of grain you're sensitive to.
This sounds quite interesting to me, have you tried a FODMAP diet for your IBS symptoms before switching to keto? I've been going back and forth on FODMAPs for the last year and a half to try and pinpoint what it is that triggers my symptoms, however no matter how "cleanly" I eat I often end up getting symptoms from foods that are supposedly safe for me (or no symptoms at all from stuff that a few months ago would've given me days of problems).
I'm looking to switch it up a bit since it doesn't seem like FODMAP is a viable long term solution and it's not solving my problems entirely, would you recommend looking into keto?
I had the same experience with a fasting/keto regimen. The fasting had a big impact on how deep my sleep was. At times it almost felt like coming out of anesthesia at the hospital.
Interesting! I have the opposite experience. I've gone on a bunch of very low-carb diets, maybe ten at this point (not sure if they were exactly ketogenic or not), and I've enjoyed them. But every time I try low-carb, my sleep gets extremely light (I'll wake up 3 or 4 times a night), I sleep a couple hours less than normal, and I get weirdly vivid dreams. It's always the weird sleep that makes me quit the diet.
I wonder if it's symptomatic of low-fat diets, or insulin resistance from too many carbs. Apparently going very low-carb can cause insomnia for some people as well.
Self-experimenting is important I guess. I'm faring better with my nutritional intake.
I recommend discussing with a medical professional if you sweat. Sweat means inflammation, fever or slight fever. It could be nothing but it could be also symptoms of pre-diabetes type 2, cancer or other chronic disease.
Sounds super interesting. Can you provide a link or a quick list of the things that you eat for your diet. I’m currently having great difficulty sleeping due to IBS.
Maybe you want to consider to switch to a whole food plant based diet. Other than the other „lifestyle“ diets such as low carb, the plant based is actually backed by science. A good source is nutritionfacts.org and the book „how not to die“ by the same author.
If you asked me to switch two months ago, I‘d say no way. But the science behind it convinced me to try it and it is so much easier than expected.
Something to consider when talking about anything wheat/gluten related is that SO many people nowadays are starting to show signs of gluten intolerance/allergy and this might be due to glyphosate rather than the gluten itself. I come from Italy and trust me when I tell you that everyone and their uncles eat a diet that is 99% gluten-based, however until a few years ago nobody ever had problems with it. I am starting to truly believe that we are slowly poisoning ourselves without realising it and then blaming the wrong culprits for it.
> I am starting to truly believe that we are slowly poisoning ourselves without realising it and then blaming the wrong culprits for it.
I have a background in hospitality, so I used to think about this all the time. I fully agree with you because I have no idea where all these allergies came from. It doesn't help that the problem is exacerbated by restaurants bending over backwards to fill chairs -- many of those allergies are just diets with parlance that cooks easily understand.
The fear for me is that we, as the affected mass, can be cognisant but remain powerless. We still go to the same brick and mortars and that's our only participation in the process. The changes that happen to our food are already delivered by a fully functioning system, at a scale unlikely to make swift changes, before we get any or notice it's bad. Only when we die are changes made, like seatbelts, but tasty.
I watched Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams last night (Crazy Diamond). "What would happen to our local economy if everyone grew their own food?" <-- Chills, man. Won't be long.
Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant. It is an organophosphorus compound, specifically a phosphonate, which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. It is used to kill weeds, especially annual broadleaf weeds and grasses that compete with crops. (Wikipedia)
The reason so many people are showing a gluten allergy/intolerance is a fad propagated by social media.
It has nothing to do with evolution - obviously - since it doesn't work in such a small time frame, and it has nothing to do with glyphosate, since glyphosate is used in most of the other (gluten free) crops as well.
So much keto talk here yet no one mentions blood markers or LDL (bad cholesterol). What ever happened to good'ol'data approach?
It's pretty obvious that altering ones diet can have profound effects. But a scientific approach to diet is a far safer approach. Ever tried to lower your bad cholesterol?
So a group of friends who are data obsessed tried keto after another group of friends raved on about it like it was a sign from above. The group that took a scientific approach getting blood work before and after noticed their LDLs shoot through the roof. Before keto: LDL 70. After 4 months on keto LDL 190. That's well above the Sutter health recommended LDL 120. Even 120 is well above what heart surgeons recommend to avoid cholesterol in your arteries: LDL below 70.
The other group that raved on about keto claimed to have done blood work but never shared the numbers. They said they felt great etc.. no st, the brain craves fats. You will feel better. You can triple your fish oil intake and experience some of that natural high for those daring.
If you want to lower your LDL I'll advice you to eat nothing but white bread with slices of highly processed meat for a week. Will lower your HDL and increase Trigs too, but if LDL is your primary concern: Go for it.
Here is the thing: it's not as easy as LDL = BAD. For older people higher LDL is actually protective, for women there seems to be nearly no effect whatsoever. Don't be fooled by simple answers.
Keto is all well and good... until you get your lipid panel checked.
We all understand that lab values are not everything, but I don't think _anyone_ who is informed about cardiovascular health would say that over the long term such elevated LDL values are anywhere near healthy...
I say this as someone who felt great on a very low carb diet and preached the keto diet for a while.
I've had my share of sleep problems in the past. Fixed it by reading "Why We Sleep" and "Circadian Code" and borrowing a lot of ideas and suggestions there.
I immediately gave up coffee, at first, a long with a bunch of other things (details at [0]).
Anyway, recently I started experimenting with coffee again and it turns out it didn't have any impact on my sleep, whatsoever. I started drinking coffee again (albeit, little less than what I drank before) and I still sleep 8+ hours daily.
I eat very cleanly, in general, and exercise daily.
I think that trying to fit my last meal 4-5 hours before sleeping has had the biggest impact on my sleep!
It's extremely important for your physical and mental health to eat clean, sleep well (8+ hours minimum) and exercise (strength training preferred). Optionally try to include time restriction on the eating window (say, eat within 8 hours period in each 24 hours). That's all there is to it, really. The rest is probably genetic lottery.
I loved "Why We Sleep" (was a HN recommendation, I think!). One of my biggest takeaways was learning to not feel guilty about it. I think the constant 'hustle mentality' ends up making a lot of this community (in particular) demonise sleep in an "I'll sleep when I'm dead" and "if I'm not working 22 hours a day I'm being out hustled!" When I 'forgave' myself for sleeping (which sounds mental, but bear with) and started to get a consistent 7.5 hours a day, I found that I was just working _better_. Smarter not harder, I guess? Focussed work is definitely > unfocussed work!
The problem I see with all these Anecdotes is, that when a person starts to take care of their body like you did, they attack multiple health problems at once: improving sleep, reducing coffee, eating more greens, a little bit more workout. So it is more the sum than a single thing.
I developed a pretty bad pollen allergy around the age of 30. Every spring I had to take antihistamines that helped a bit (not completely), but they made me either anxious or sleepy.
Then just for fun I made a bet with a friend of mine -- I tried to do a half-distance amateur tri race (1.9k swim, 90k cycle, 21k running) without any carb intake. So I dramatically decreased my carb intake for 3 months or so from February to May.
My allergy has completely disappeared and didn't come back for 2 years (despite me having switched back to eating carbs). Then it came back, and I cut back on carbs again. It subsided.
Very strange.
The problem is that I can't figure out what is helping. Carbs in general? Gluten? Something else? I don't know because it takes 1-2 weeks at least before the effects kick in, so I can't just simply A/B test.
I'm interested in this subject. I recently read 'Why We Sleep' and I have started a revolution of getting enough quality sleep, and it has been life changing. I recommend this to everyone.
One thing that offended the reading voice in my head was the careless grammar in the article. I'm not a stickler, but starting sentences with 'am' rather than 'I am', for instance, makes the article sound rushed.
Doing keto for several years on and off, longest time was two years. While being on keto is absolutely recommended, I haven't seen signifcant impact on sleep quality.
Being on keto reduces your general anxiety. Or being on carbs makes you much more anxious and a doubting person. Maybe there is a small relation: Less anxiety leads to better sleep. In my case, I needed to fix my sleep with other things, keto didn't help there.
OT: I think that from a specific age (mid 30ies+) one cannot just eat carbs and gluten like they did when they were young. At a higher age carbs impact you much more. People get bloated and age way quicker. You see 'high carb' written in their face.
OT2: Not entirely sure if this post's actual goal is promoting the mentioned carb tracker app.
OT3: Maybe a bit extreme but very true is a quote by Talib: 'The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary'
If there's anything I'm getting from these comments is that everyone seems to have all sorts of different reactions, and we should all be much more aggressive about randomly experimenting with different diets
How does the analogy in the title have any bearing on the anecdote shared by the author? It's not as if he adopted a different perspective and thereby gained intuition... instead, he stumbled upon something that he attributes credit for fixing his problem, then backed into a justification.
The anecdote of "ketogenic diet really helped my sleep" seems worth sharing. Everything else feels tacked on.
started to feel changes in sleep patterns at the end of my 30ies as well... from what i know my eating patterns did not change over the past 15-20 years so much. what are scientific papers on the relation between sleep and nutrition? might be interesting to learn more on this for the future.
>started to feel changes in sleep patterns at the end of my 30ies as well... from what i know my eating patterns did not change over the past 15-20 years so much.
No, but your body's abilities and stamina changed a lot...
You won't find any centenarians that eat vegan. India is one of the countries with the highest diabetes numbers and vegan. Japan, on the other hand, has the most centenarian and they eat basically unprocessed food and low carb.
[+] [-] iamben|7 years ago|reply
Sleep aside, I don't sweat nearly as much during the day and I've shaken almost most all the IBS related problems I had. Feels a bit like a miracle. Trouble is, I wish (much like the article) I could understand exactly what it was that I cut out that made the biggest difference. Bread? Alliums? Fructose?
I guess the only way would be to reintroduce things slowly and test, or revert back to a carb heavy diet and remove stuff one by one... But when you're (finally) feeling great you don't want to mess it up :-/
[+] [-] Aromasin|7 years ago|reply
In terms of reintroducing foods, don't go back to carbs and cut back! You're just setting yourself up to fail. Just reintroduce carbs slowly up. Start with tubers and root veg, as from what I've read they're often the easiest in terms of digestion. Then move on to fruits, then nuts, then seeds, then finish with grains. It could well be you're gluten intolerant so there are only a few types of grain you're sensitive to.
[+] [-] devilmoon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fezz|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sametmax|7 years ago|reply
Top 3:
- weight. The fatter i get, the worse i sleep. And it's a vicious circle.
- rafined sugar. Too much of it will make me restless, including the sweating you mentioned, but also accelerated cardio respiratory rythm.
- things agressive on the intestine such as too much milk (i'm NOT lactose intolerant)
Screens, late intense lights and coffee seldom affect my sleep, although the later is starting to now that i'm getting older.
[+] [-] bitL|7 years ago|reply
https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/diabetes-lack-of-sle...
[+] [-] happy4crazy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slothtrop|7 years ago|reply
Self-experimenting is important I guess. I'm faring better with my nutritional intake.
[+] [-] mtw|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pumanoir|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] laforge|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devilmoon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] portroyal|7 years ago|reply
I have a background in hospitality, so I used to think about this all the time. I fully agree with you because I have no idea where all these allergies came from. It doesn't help that the problem is exacerbated by restaurants bending over backwards to fill chairs -- many of those allergies are just diets with parlance that cooks easily understand.
The fear for me is that we, as the affected mass, can be cognisant but remain powerless. We still go to the same brick and mortars and that's our only participation in the process. The changes that happen to our food are already delivered by a fully functioning system, at a scale unlikely to make swift changes, before we get any or notice it's bad. Only when we die are changes made, like seatbelts, but tasty.
I watched Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams last night (Crazy Diamond). "What would happen to our local economy if everyone grew their own food?" <-- Chills, man. Won't be long.
[+] [-] micael_dias|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wtdata|7 years ago|reply
It has nothing to do with evolution - obviously - since it doesn't work in such a small time frame, and it has nothing to do with glyphosate, since glyphosate is used in most of the other (gluten free) crops as well.
[+] [-] collyw|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robk|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] semerda|7 years ago|reply
It's pretty obvious that altering ones diet can have profound effects. But a scientific approach to diet is a far safer approach. Ever tried to lower your bad cholesterol?
So a group of friends who are data obsessed tried keto after another group of friends raved on about it like it was a sign from above. The group that took a scientific approach getting blood work before and after noticed their LDLs shoot through the roof. Before keto: LDL 70. After 4 months on keto LDL 190. That's well above the Sutter health recommended LDL 120. Even 120 is well above what heart surgeons recommend to avoid cholesterol in your arteries: LDL below 70.
The other group that raved on about keto claimed to have done blood work but never shared the numbers. They said they felt great etc.. no st, the brain craves fats. You will feel better. You can triple your fish oil intake and experience some of that natural high for those daring.
Anyways some food for thought.
[+] [-] glastra|7 years ago|reply
LDL cholesterol is not a predictor, indicator or otherwise relevant measure with regards to disease, at all. If anything, HDL/trig ratio might be.
[+] [-] JanSt|7 years ago|reply
Here is the thing: it's not as easy as LDL = BAD. For older people higher LDL is actually protective, for women there seems to be nearly no effect whatsoever. Don't be fooled by simple answers.
[+] [-] _up|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rhinoceraptor|7 years ago|reply
I doubt you'll die sooner, but even if you did, you don't want to spend your life tired and hungry.
[+] [-] semerda|7 years ago|reply
Joe Rogan Experience #1175 - Chris Kresser & Dr. Joel Kahn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtqCBimr6U
[+] [-] vbtemp|7 years ago|reply
Keto is all well and good... until you get your lipid panel checked.
We all understand that lab values are not everything, but I don't think _anyone_ who is informed about cardiovascular health would say that over the long term such elevated LDL values are anywhere near healthy...
I say this as someone who felt great on a very low carb diet and preached the keto diet for a while.
[+] [-] rofo1|7 years ago|reply
I immediately gave up coffee, at first, a long with a bunch of other things (details at [0]).
Anyway, recently I started experimenting with coffee again and it turns out it didn't have any impact on my sleep, whatsoever. I started drinking coffee again (albeit, little less than what I drank before) and I still sleep 8+ hours daily.
I eat very cleanly, in general, and exercise daily.
I think that trying to fit my last meal 4-5 hours before sleeping has had the biggest impact on my sleep!
It's extremely important for your physical and mental health to eat clean, sleep well (8+ hours minimum) and exercise (strength training preferred). Optionally try to include time restriction on the eating window (say, eat within 8 hours period in each 24 hours). That's all there is to it, really. The rest is probably genetic lottery.
[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17639429 (old comment of mine)
[+] [-] iamben|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brainzap|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sz4kerto|7 years ago|reply
Then just for fun I made a bet with a friend of mine -- I tried to do a half-distance amateur tri race (1.9k swim, 90k cycle, 21k running) without any carb intake. So I dramatically decreased my carb intake for 3 months or so from February to May.
My allergy has completely disappeared and didn't come back for 2 years (despite me having switched back to eating carbs). Then it came back, and I cut back on carbs again. It subsided.
Very strange.
The problem is that I can't figure out what is helping. Carbs in general? Gluten? Something else? I don't know because it takes 1-2 weeks at least before the effects kick in, so I can't just simply A/B test.
[+] [-] coldtea|7 years ago|reply
Just eat no gluten but still carbs for 2 weeks, see what happens, and then all carbs again.
[+] [-] jimnotgym|7 years ago|reply
One thing that offended the reading voice in my head was the careless grammar in the article. I'm not a stickler, but starting sentences with 'am' rather than 'I am', for instance, makes the article sound rushed.
[+] [-] kitchenfloor|7 years ago|reply
Being on keto reduces your general anxiety. Or being on carbs makes you much more anxious and a doubting person. Maybe there is a small relation: Less anxiety leads to better sleep. In my case, I needed to fix my sleep with other things, keto didn't help there.
OT: I think that from a specific age (mid 30ies+) one cannot just eat carbs and gluten like they did when they were young. At a higher age carbs impact you much more. People get bloated and age way quicker. You see 'high carb' written in their face.
OT2: Not entirely sure if this post's actual goal is promoting the mentioned carb tracker app.
OT3: Maybe a bit extreme but very true is a quote by Talib: 'The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary'
[+] [-] blanche_|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peteretep|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] RickJWagner|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] appleflaxen|7 years ago|reply
The anecdote of "ketogenic diet really helped my sleep" seems worth sharing. Everything else feels tacked on.
[+] [-] avichalp|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1024core|7 years ago|reply
So what are my options?
[+] [-] acuozzo|7 years ago|reply
Scroll down a bit further on that page until you hit the "Foods to Eat" section and remove from it anything you refuse to eat.
[+] [-] poseid|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coldtea|7 years ago|reply
No, but your body's abilities and stamina changed a lot...
[+] [-] foamclutching|7 years ago|reply
I couldn't believe this, and I was so thankful for the link! Now I'll watch the Ted video and keep reading the other article.
[+] [-] kpU8efre7r|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mapcars|7 years ago|reply
>Foods to Eat >Meat: Red meat, steak, ham, sausage, bacon, chicken and turkey
Thank you but no, whoever made this diet doesn't know much about healthy food.
[+] [-] _up|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acuozzo|7 years ago|reply
And, of course, Dr. Atkins. He surely didn't know much about healthy food!
Why not research first before writing a comment containing "whoever made this diet"?
This diet has existed for longer than you have.
[+] [-] bitL|7 years ago|reply