I'm more interested in how Samsung ever got so far down the road with a such an apparently flawed design. Samsung's engineers must have known it had big problems. Was this a classic case of dysfunctional corporate culture meaning nobody wanted to give the bosses bad news? I'm guessing so.
I have worked for Samsung, elbeit in software division. Company culture is such that if a high level manager promised to deliver he will pressure his people to meet the deadline no matter if the product has flaws. And every step of the organisation will do the same. There is also little flow of bad information up the chain, every level will use multiple tactics to make impression everything is fine even if the building is on fire.
This has a lot to do with korean culture where keeping face and loyalty for his employer are two most important things in the life of a corporate drone.
Samsung has a history of shipping crappy products just for the sake of being the first to do it. Their product line has always been a sprawling mess of overly-specialized niche products. It seems like they have a strategy of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
> Was this a classic case of dysfunctional corporate culture meaning nobody wanted to give the bosses bad news?
I don't think Samsung would have done something like this for a mass consumer device, take for instance their recent S10. So no.
Galaxy Folds are different though. They are not 100% ready yet -- I'm pretty sure they knew about some of the shortcomings -- but this is still a major leap in mobile display technology and the Fold's release is anything, but, a typical, or 'classical' release. Based on their announcement on bold pricing, limited availability by reservation only, with different support and service model, it is fairly evident that the release is targeting those self-selected tech-savvy folks who want access to the incomplete product just to get a glimpse into the future. And, I'm surprised by the bold move that Samsung is willing to serve such niche group of customers.
That being said, I've never been so excited about a mobile device since I got my first iPhone in 2008. If I had a couple of grands to spare, I would be more than happy to sign up, just to see what it's like.
This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. There is no way this was tested properly if all these reviewer units are failing immediately. There hasn’t even been time for pocket lint and dust to accumulate which will make it so much worse. A proper product would have been tested in all these conditions over and over and not released at all if the failure rate was this high. Feels like management blindness on this went all the way to the top and now they will reap the PR fallout and ridicule that they should. In a proper work environment that punished stupidity like this, some management heads should roll. Engineering heads should roll too but I suspect they told management that it wouldn’t work and management said to “just make it work.” Turns out the laws of physics are hard to rewrite.
>I'm more interested in how Samsung ever got so far down the road with a such an apparently flawed design.
Companies other than Apple do this all the time. That's what most "X beat Apple at innovation bringing Y to market" amount for.
For all the BS lip service about "innovation" (in an industry where few do any), Jobs Apple was thoroughly evolutionary. Each subsequent iPod iteration added something small but substantial, each iPhone iteration ditto.
There was no huge revolutionary steps between releases -- the product itself, and being well thought out and usable and good was the revolution.
The product idea wasn't revolutionary either (there were touch smartphones before the iPhone, and mp3 players before the iPod, tables before the iPad and so on -- the key wasn't that it was the revolutionary, but it was the first finally decent all-rounder -- as opposed to the first thrown-together mis-mash that works if you have low expectations and love tinkering as a "power user").
That said, Apple has increasingly been doing the same "pre-announce/release half-though BS" themselves past 2015 or so (e.g. the butterfly keyboard, the can Mac Pro, the touch strip, the wireless charger that never materialized, the 2+ years in the making Mac Pro replacement, etc).
If the primary issue is "don't remove the protective screen" then I think that might be easy to overlook - to assume that educating the user will take the problem away, for example.
The contrast with the Huawei Mate X is stark. The latter has the folding screen on the outside of the phone, which means 1) a wider, and thus safer, bend radius while simultaneously being able to properly close (no lingering gap) and 2) (seemingly?) no ability for space to develop under the screen for debris to get in. Huawei having just the one screen also makes for an overall cleaner design. It makes me wonder why Samsung chose the more problematic inside-fold route.
I think it's because Samsung is trying to protect the screen. I'm curious to see how the Mate X will perform. I won't be surprised if the screen wrapping around the outside turns out to be really fragile. People are notoriously hard on their phones (especially on the edges) and the Mate X is a phone that has an exposed screen that can't be covered in glass and can't be hidden in a screen case.
Samsung's approach has a better chance of succeeding in the long run simply because it protects the screen, but they clearly need to refine their approach. Without some serious materials wizardry, Huawei's design seems hopelessly flawed. According to this article, uneven pressure may be responsible for breaking the Samsung, think of what could happen with the exposed screen on the Huawei.
The Huawei mate X already had a visible crease in the middle when unfolded precisely because the radius is larger and thus the excess plastic needs to go somewhere. I guess they can still fix the protective plastic properly so there is no ingress.
Though it does mean a corner could get the brunt of a drop. wondering how OLEDs will cope with that. From iFixit's article about the why they think the fold broke, I'm guessing not well.
The title gave me pause, and I sat thinking about what it possibly mean.
How can a galactic entity "fail"? Does this affect us? Surely not since such things would be on the timespans of millions to billions of years. What is a "Galaxy Fold"?
After a few seconds considering such questions, I realized what it was actually about.
I expected it to be a case of dark matter obliquely caught in a black hole. If the galaxy in question were spherical it would fold in on itself much more symmetrically, making it improbable that the fold would fail.
We have been designing space vessels and spacesuits for the better part of a century with moving or flexible or rotating hinges that can protect every thing and everyone inside from the vacuum of space and transfer of moisture and debris. This article from iFixit and the included photo from The Verge clearly explain and display how Samsung Galaxy designers missed the mark of creating a simple inexpensive hinge mechanism that would have prevented the OLED from being exposed to any external material or uneven pressure.
I admire Samsung for creating one of the first foldable phones. It is not the prettiest or the slickest design and I personally can't say that I would be interested in buying one.
However, I don't quite understand the bad press that Samsung is getting with this phone. I mean, sure it has some issues but it is the first generation of this new type of phone.
If you are going to buy this product, then you must be aware that you are going to be one of the Beta testers. There is no way around it. You just have to accept it and then when the Galaxy fold 2 comes out in a year or so, hopefully, they would have sorted out all those issues.
What's interesting is they ran the folding machines and even showed everyone to create confidence, but they don't seem to have dogfooded.
Wouldn't it make sense for a company like Samsung to hand out some of the devices to their own staff to use? I'm sure you can find realistic use cases among the staff of such a large company. If you're afraid of leaks give it to the family or upper management. By the looks of it even a handful of phones would have revealed the issues.
Alright, I’ll take the heat for asking the obvious question:
Who would ever need a folding phone? This sounds like a silly idea. Apart from the obvious party trick (“hold my drink - ima fold this phone in half”) I don’t see any reason for a phone to fold halfway down the middle into a ridiculously thick package that can’t be comfortable carried inside any reasonably sized pants pocket.
"All this week, I kept coming back to a thought about how we use our phones. We pull them out to check something quickly, but then, all of a sudden, a half-hour disappears scrolling Instagram or Twitter or whatever. It’s a real problem.
But it’s a problem I didn’t really have with the Galaxy Fold. When I was using the tiny screen, I just wanted to get something done quickly and put it away because the screen was small, and I wasn’t in a place where I wanted to unfold it.
On the flip side, when I was using Galaxy Fold unfolded, I was really using it. I had to hold it in two hands, and it felt much more like using a tablet, an active device I was choosing to use. It requires some small measure of intentionality — more than a phone, anyway.
I found myself using it in meetings, and nobody batted an eye. I was reviewing docs for the meeting, but I could have just as easily been messing around on social media. But think about the social rules of a work meeting: somebody messing around on their phone is a jerk, but somebody using a tablet is more likely to be doing something relevant. The Fold feels like a different device with different social rules, and that’s fascinating."
People routinely clamor for ridiculously-thick phones already so they can get huge batteries. I don't think the size (effectively two phones) is a big deal; I already carry 2 phones in my pocket pretty routinely with no problems.
This folding phone seems targeted at letting people carry a phone with a gigantic screen. People that are buying XL versions of existing phones (a surprising number of people) that want even bigger screens (that still fit in the pocket) seem to be the target, and/or people who want a 2-in-1 phone+tablet.
I don't really like large phones, but I do like using tablets. Having the choice between a phone-sized screen and a tablet-sized screen in a single device seems personally desirable to me; I don't really care much about the device size itself as long as it still fits in my pocket (unlike the tablet it'd be replacing).
I really didnt mind when phones were thicker. I'd be happy if my phone was thicker now if it meant having a bigger battery. I'd be even happier if my phone was thicker now and it meant I had a screen that's (optionally) twice as big in my pocket. Just some things off the top of my head that I'd like to have a bigger screen, but not carry around a tablet for: taking notes, maps in the car, gaming, netflix.
I've been waiting 20 years for a small phone with AR glasses and virtual keyboard and touchpad. What I don't want is a bloody folding phone, which is still too ridiculously small to actually work on. Damn.
Nobody needs a folding phone, but nobody strictly needs a lot of stuff. I'm waiting on them releasing a digital scroll, personally. I'm sure I don't need one though.
One advantage is accessibility for people with limited vision. A folding phone can have about the same screen area as a small tablet, while still fitting in a pocket or handbag. A larger screen is immensely more comfortable to use if your font size and UI has been scaled up by 300%.
This only applies in a hypothetical future where someone figures out how to make a durable folding display though.
Most women's pant front pockets stopped being able to hold a phone many phone generations ago, and I personally rarely feel comfortable leaving my phone in my back pocket where it will easily fall. Moreover, most skirts or dresses don't have pockets at all. Women seem to have adjusted just fine to phones that don't fit in their pockets, I doubt that the rest of the population will have trouble adjusting.
Additionally, I read a lot more when I have my tablet with me, as it's easy to pop it out and read an article or chapter when I'm waiting for the bus, etc, and it's not tedious to read on like it is on my phone, as the tablet has a larger screen. I also rarely carry my tablet around as it seems superfluous with my computer and phone.
That's why I, at least, am jumping at the chance to have a device that is both easier to read, and not as big as my tablet.
I'd love a folding phone. I often find myself doing several things at once which requires a lot of switching back and forth between apps (say I'm chatting with a friend while browsing the internet, or I remember something while chatting and I want to send him a link, but I need to find the right page first - or I want to take notes and would like to have whatever reference I'm using open without having to switch back and forth).
I love the multitasking on my iPad, so a smartphone that can turn into a mini-tablet that might support similar forms of multitasking sounds awesome to me. I'm just gonna wait until somebody releases a model that doesn't cost me an arm and doesn't break within a week.
Would a Psion-like PDA like the Cosmo Communicator [1] be a more workable solution compared to a hard-to-engineer folding screen? When closed, the PDA acts like a phone. When you open it, you have a bigger screen and a keyboard for entry.
I would love to have a phone that I can open up to tablet size, so I only need one device for both jobs. Find something too big for the small screen? Open it up, continue. Taking out the tablet works (especially with the various sync techs for websites), but is not really a "nice" workflow.
Is there even a need for such a device? Or are those desperate attempts to sell new features?
From what I have experienced, the smartphone market is basically saturated. My peers and I no longer have a need for buying new devices. Basic stuff won't get any faster and 5 cameras are not worth a new device.
It's probably a case of black matter caught in a dark hole. If the galaxy in question were sperical, it would fold in on itself much more symmetrically.
[+] [-] stupidcar|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmilcin|7 years ago|reply
This has a lot to do with korean culture where keeping face and loyalty for his employer are two most important things in the life of a corporate drone.
[+] [-] lemoncucumber|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tooltalk|7 years ago|reply
I don't think Samsung would have done something like this for a mass consumer device, take for instance their recent S10. So no.
Galaxy Folds are different though. They are not 100% ready yet -- I'm pretty sure they knew about some of the shortcomings -- but this is still a major leap in mobile display technology and the Fold's release is anything, but, a typical, or 'classical' release. Based on their announcement on bold pricing, limited availability by reservation only, with different support and service model, it is fairly evident that the release is targeting those self-selected tech-savvy folks who want access to the incomplete product just to get a glimpse into the future. And, I'm surprised by the bold move that Samsung is willing to serve such niche group of customers.
That being said, I've never been so excited about a mobile device since I got my first iPhone in 2008. If I had a couple of grands to spare, I would be more than happy to sign up, just to see what it's like.
[+] [-] JohnJamesRambo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rorykoehler|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coldtea|7 years ago|reply
Companies other than Apple do this all the time. That's what most "X beat Apple at innovation bringing Y to market" amount for.
For all the BS lip service about "innovation" (in an industry where few do any), Jobs Apple was thoroughly evolutionary. Each subsequent iPod iteration added something small but substantial, each iPhone iteration ditto.
There was no huge revolutionary steps between releases -- the product itself, and being well thought out and usable and good was the revolution.
The product idea wasn't revolutionary either (there were touch smartphones before the iPhone, and mp3 players before the iPod, tables before the iPad and so on -- the key wasn't that it was the revolutionary, but it was the first finally decent all-rounder -- as opposed to the first thrown-together mis-mash that works if you have low expectations and love tinkering as a "power user").
That said, Apple has increasingly been doing the same "pre-announce/release half-though BS" themselves past 2015 or so (e.g. the butterfly keyboard, the can Mac Pro, the touch strip, the wireless charger that never materialized, the 2+ years in the making Mac Pro replacement, etc).
[+] [-] tyopiuy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xfitm3|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jplayer01|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] learnstats2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TazeTSchnitzel|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tynpeddler|7 years ago|reply
Samsung's approach has a better chance of succeeding in the long run simply because it protects the screen, but they clearly need to refine their approach. Without some serious materials wizardry, Huawei's design seems hopelessly flawed. According to this article, uneven pressure may be responsible for breaking the Samsung, think of what could happen with the exposed screen on the Huawei.
[+] [-] yoz-y|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonplackett|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] megablast|7 years ago|reply
Which doesn't really exist yet.
[+] [-] pault|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] httpsterio|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pure-awesome|7 years ago|reply
How can a galactic entity "fail"? Does this affect us? Surely not since such things would be on the timespans of millions to billions of years. What is a "Galaxy Fold"?
After a few seconds considering such questions, I realized what it was actually about.
[+] [-] starpilot|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _bxg1|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tempodox|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wil421|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jfbaro|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaestmqfhc|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SerLava|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdm_blackhole|7 years ago|reply
However, I don't quite understand the bad press that Samsung is getting with this phone. I mean, sure it has some issues but it is the first generation of this new type of phone.
If you are going to buy this product, then you must be aware that you are going to be one of the Beta testers. There is no way around it. You just have to accept it and then when the Galaxy fold 2 comes out in a year or so, hopefully, they would have sorted out all those issues.
[+] [-] lordnacho|7 years ago|reply
Wouldn't it make sense for a company like Samsung to hand out some of the devices to their own staff to use? I'm sure you can find realistic use cases among the staff of such a large company. If you're afraid of leaks give it to the family or upper management. By the looks of it even a handful of phones would have revealed the issues.
[+] [-] maxaf|7 years ago|reply
Who would ever need a folding phone? This sounds like a silly idea. Apart from the obvious party trick (“hold my drink - ima fold this phone in half”) I don’t see any reason for a phone to fold halfway down the middle into a ridiculously thick package that can’t be comfortable carried inside any reasonably sized pants pocket.
[+] [-] _bxg1|7 years ago|reply
"All this week, I kept coming back to a thought about how we use our phones. We pull them out to check something quickly, but then, all of a sudden, a half-hour disappears scrolling Instagram or Twitter or whatever. It’s a real problem.
But it’s a problem I didn’t really have with the Galaxy Fold. When I was using the tiny screen, I just wanted to get something done quickly and put it away because the screen was small, and I wasn’t in a place where I wanted to unfold it.
On the flip side, when I was using Galaxy Fold unfolded, I was really using it. I had to hold it in two hands, and it felt much more like using a tablet, an active device I was choosing to use. It requires some small measure of intentionality — more than a phone, anyway.
I found myself using it in meetings, and nobody batted an eye. I was reviewing docs for the meeting, but I could have just as easily been messing around on social media. But think about the social rules of a work meeting: somebody messing around on their phone is a jerk, but somebody using a tablet is more likely to be doing something relevant. The Fold feels like a different device with different social rules, and that’s fascinating."
[+] [-] drusepth|7 years ago|reply
This folding phone seems targeted at letting people carry a phone with a gigantic screen. People that are buying XL versions of existing phones (a surprising number of people) that want even bigger screens (that still fit in the pocket) seem to be the target, and/or people who want a 2-in-1 phone+tablet.
I don't really like large phones, but I do like using tablets. Having the choice between a phone-sized screen and a tablet-sized screen in a single device seems personally desirable to me; I don't really care much about the device size itself as long as it still fits in my pocket (unlike the tablet it'd be replacing).
[+] [-] function_seven|7 years ago|reply
A folding display solves that issue. Small when it needs to be, large when you want it to be.
Yeah, it's thicker than a typical phone, but that's usually not the limiting dimension when determining pocketablity.
[+] [-] kraftman|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mirimir|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inflatableDodo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jake-low|7 years ago|reply
This only applies in a hypothetical future where someone figures out how to make a durable folding display though.
[+] [-] miranda_rights|7 years ago|reply
Additionally, I read a lot more when I have my tablet with me, as it's easy to pop it out and read an article or chapter when I'm waiting for the bus, etc, and it's not tedious to read on like it is on my phone, as the tablet has a larger screen. I also rarely carry my tablet around as it seems superfluous with my computer and phone.
That's why I, at least, am jumping at the chance to have a device that is both easier to read, and not as big as my tablet.
[+] [-] jplayer01|7 years ago|reply
I love the multitasking on my iPad, so a smartphone that can turn into a mini-tablet that might support similar forms of multitasking sounds awesome to me. I'm just gonna wait until somebody releases a model that doesn't cost me an arm and doesn't break within a week.
[+] [-] sohkamyung|7 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/
[+] [-] sgift|7 years ago|reply
I would love to have a phone that I can open up to tablet size, so I only need one device for both jobs. Find something too big for the small screen? Open it up, continue. Taking out the tablet works (especially with the various sync techs for websites), but is not really a "nice" workflow.
[+] [-] stevula|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tobyhinloopen|7 years ago|reply
Too bad I don't trust Android.
[+] [-] JohnFen|7 years ago|reply
I can't imagine a use case for this that would make it appealing to me. But apparently there are a lot of people who can.
Different strokes and all that.
[+] [-] Retra|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HocusLocus|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gsich|7 years ago|reply
From what I have experienced, the smartphone market is basically saturated. My peers and I no longer have a need for buying new devices. Basic stuff won't get any faster and 5 cameras are not worth a new device.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tempodox|7 years ago|reply