I cringe every single time someone suggests blockchain in our space. Either it's easier with other tech (even public/private key tech doesn't require blockchain), or open to potential leaks/abuse in the future (tracking how everyone voted).
There are a lot of use cases, most even, where it's not a great fit, and there are other, better, approaches.
Disclosure, I work for an election services company...
I've discovered that some people say "blockchain" when they mean "immutable, distributed, cryptographically-verified database" -- which is actually a useful thing for many people.
The Byzantine fault tolerance, public consensus, and mining aspects that we associate with "true" blockchains are the parts that people can't find a way to justify and can typically be ignored.
Blockchain in general is way too broadly prescribed. The "how" blockchain solves a particular medical system problem is very important to consider. Many sources are selling the idea but not discussing tradeoffs.
I feel its become very fashionable to dismiss the simpler applications of the tech because of how unrealistically its been applied. It's so easy to do too. Look at the insane valuations, the fraud, and hype cooked up by marketers, and the whole thing looks very stupid. But its a mistake to let this get in the way of critical thinking.
There is a reason why the topic is brought up so often and its because among all that garbage there is genuine potential. It requires education, and R & D to unlock most of it. But at some point we'll have straight-forward tools that can be applied to solve a variety of common problems.
I predict the end result won't look any where near as exciting as it is today. It's likely going to end up being a flexible and boring set of auditing tools. But that's still going to improve the transparency and efficiency of many organizations. And give how archaic some of the processes around businesses are today -- those changes are still going to look revolutionary in their context.
> It requires education, and R & D to unlock most of it. But at some point we'll have straight-forward tools that can be applied to solve a variety of common problems.
We’ve been hearing this for a decade – it’ll change the world, if you don’t agree it’s because you don’t understand it well enough – and yet we don’t have a single example of it being competitive, much less compelling.
One of the common comparisons is the internet or, more specifically the web, but those really just highlight how inappropriate those comparisons are. In both cases, within a few years there were multiple examples of real problems being solved and businesses seeing profits from adoption (not just speculation) — and that despite far greater barriers to adoption.
Maybe if the transaction rate can be increased by a few orders of magnitude.
The biggest problem is that decentralized systems tend over time toward recentralization. That pressure will not go away, and it can only be fought against if there is no friction in the decentralized system.
As someone who is a CEO of a medical blockchain startup which is trying to find actual meaningful use cases, I agree 100% with the conclusions of this post.
(finding actual convincing use cases in the medical space for this tech is hard)
so...why are you still the CEO of a medical blockchain startup? Surely you escorted yourself off the premises by now? ;)
But seriously, isn't this putting the cart before the horse? The usual order is "find a problem, build a solution", not "find a technology, build a solution, work out who has a problem it can solve". How's that working out for you?
I find the private blockchain technologies (Hyperledger Fabric, Hyperledger Sawtooth) superior for these types of applications especially since Fabric implemented private data.
I work in this space and I am hard pressed to see where blockchain could improve patient control of data. The real problem that I have is that health data rules and workflows are completely unlike any other type of data I have worked with. Ownership of data, attribution of information, interoperability, all of these elements are context dependent.
Centralised, independent storage of information so that all healthcare providers (with the patient's permission) can access critical records is a much simpler solution. It is still complex, but at least you don't have the byzantine bullshit of the blockchain sitting beneath it.
I recently worked on a yellow paper that outlines a data exchange with no centralized authority that puts ownership and encryption responsibility of that data back onto the users of the network. It's a data exchange not a blockchain because all data should be mutable and nullifiable. Blockchain is the wrong technology for so many things that it's been hyped for.
Perhaps your comment was meant to be tongue in cheek, but it sounds like this data exchange is a replacement for the World Wide Web? It's not IPFS is it?
Never have I seen someone so angry that a college student gave a vague talk, a startup made some exaggerated claims, and a university research project wasn’t completed.
I hope he doesn’t read hacker news. The vague talks, exaggerated claims, and unfinished research projects here would give him an aneurism!
To be generous to those proposing blockchain for health records I think their intent to suggest that it be used for the access/authentication layer of a more conventional secure database, but that's just a guess.
When a technology does an unexpected thing, something you'd never thought would be possible, it is tempting to think that it is magic and it can do all the other impossible things.
Hard not to imagine a pompous Brit spraying saliva everywhere while reading this.
To the content - there is only one way to place data on the cloud that is impervious to all global state, corporate and nefarious actors. That is with a robust blockchain. Whether or not you think that is useful in medical records is another story.
I've been a medical doctor for 10 years and think that it is.
How do you use this and not allow for anyone with access to the block chain to also have access to all medical records? How do you secure this data without also securing the block chain access itself? How do you provide this security without effectively losing the usefulness of the block chain in general? How do you do this in a way that is effective in terms of performance/speed?
[+] [-] tracker1|7 years ago|reply
There are a lot of use cases, most even, where it's not a great fit, and there are other, better, approaches.
Disclosure, I work for an election services company...
[+] [-] encloser|7 years ago|reply
https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2018/NIST.IR.8202.pdf
[+] [-] smt88|7 years ago|reply
The Byzantine fault tolerance, public consensus, and mining aspects that we associate with "true" blockchains are the parts that people can't find a way to justify and can typically be ignored.
[+] [-] chapium|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Uptrenda|7 years ago|reply
There is a reason why the topic is brought up so often and its because among all that garbage there is genuine potential. It requires education, and R & D to unlock most of it. But at some point we'll have straight-forward tools that can be applied to solve a variety of common problems.
I predict the end result won't look any where near as exciting as it is today. It's likely going to end up being a flexible and boring set of auditing tools. But that's still going to improve the transparency and efficiency of many organizations. And give how archaic some of the processes around businesses are today -- those changes are still going to look revolutionary in their context.
[+] [-] acdha|7 years ago|reply
We’ve been hearing this for a decade – it’ll change the world, if you don’t agree it’s because you don’t understand it well enough – and yet we don’t have a single example of it being competitive, much less compelling.
One of the common comparisons is the internet or, more specifically the web, but those really just highlight how inappropriate those comparisons are. In both cases, within a few years there were multiple examples of real problems being solved and businesses seeing profits from adoption (not just speculation) — and that despite far greater barriers to adoption.
[+] [-] davidgerard|7 years ago|reply
That is, something that blockchain is clearly and obviously the use case for.
"Potential" goes only so far. Eventually you need kinetic.
[+] [-] chris_wot|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dreamcompiler|7 years ago|reply
The biggest problem is that decentralized systems tend over time toward recentralization. That pressure will not go away, and it can only be fought against if there is no friction in the decentralized system.
[+] [-] drcode|7 years ago|reply
(finding actual convincing use cases in the medical space for this tech is hard)
[+] [-] marcus_holmes|7 years ago|reply
But seriously, isn't this putting the cart before the horse? The usual order is "find a problem, build a solution", not "find a technology, build a solution, work out who has a problem it can solve". How's that working out for you?
[+] [-] fishB|7 years ago|reply
I find the private blockchain technologies (Hyperledger Fabric, Hyperledger Sawtooth) superior for these types of applications especially since Fabric implemented private data.
[+] [-] monkeydreams|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] godzillabrennus|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 80x25|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] woah|7 years ago|reply
I hope he doesn’t read hacker news. The vague talks, exaggerated claims, and unfinished research projects here would give him an aneurism!
[+] [-] JohnFen|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] M2Ys4U|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djyaz1200|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] munchbunny|7 years ago|reply
One problem is blockchain is good for identity but not so much access/authentication.
[+] [-] thatoneuser|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nwhatt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zby|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] buhrmi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tanseydavid|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] sctb|7 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] 9HZZRfNlpR|7 years ago|reply
Editor for personal blog? Are you serious? It was a great read, we need it instead of tweeting 90 char snarky tweets.
[+] [-] oooshha|7 years ago|reply
To the content - there is only one way to place data on the cloud that is impervious to all global state, corporate and nefarious actors. That is with a robust blockchain. Whether or not you think that is useful in medical records is another story.
I've been a medical doctor for 10 years and think that it is.
[+] [-] tracker1|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JohnFen|7 years ago|reply
Can you explain how blockchain is useful for this in a more nuts-and-bolts way?
[+] [-] adrianpike|7 years ago|reply
hey, it's me, your blockchain developer