I just rented a P3D a couple weeks ago for a weekend, and I agree with the review, it would spank an M3. Hell, it would even spank my Camaro. But it's not a driver's car. Steering is numb, handling is competent but it's a very heavy car, seats are disapointing as hell. I was impressed, but not enough to drop 60 grand. And to be honest, between an M3 and a P3D, I'd probably still choose the M3.
It really, really depends on what you want from a car. If you want to win stoplight races, almost nothing will hang with a P3D. And if you're not an enthusiast, then it's probably sportier than anything you're familiar with. Go for it.
I strongly agree with you.
I don’t care if it spanks the M3 in a straight line. The M3 would still be the car with the better mechanics, handling and overall driving pleasure and still fast as hell for everyday life driving.
Yes my opinion is subjective. But if you like cars you might know what I am talking about.
I'm not surprised it would spank a Camaro, the Tesla is AWD while the Camaro is RWD. Shame to hear about the seats though, I'd think that Tesla would put in some Recaros at least to give it more of a sporty feel.
If you're going to track it, you're not going to mind ripping out the seats and putting something more sporty in with a five point harness. The vehicle is heavier, but adjusting to it would be similar (IMHO) to adjusting to sports cars with a mid engine layout.
My last car was an E92 M3 MT (with Tech, Premium, Competition packages and a modded exhaust). It was the most fun vehicle I've ever driven. It had plenty of power, and introduced me to the side of cars other than straight line power. It also had plenty of luxury inside, the car was credibly comfortable. All in all I think it compared very favorably to my friends R8 with nearly as much performance and plenty more luxury.
It was however incredibly expensive to maintain, especially those competition package brakes!
A friend of mine has the Model 3, but not the performance version. He hasn't had it long but the torque is very comparable and I'll bet the maintenance is quite a bit lower.
That said I'll miss that RWD behavior and those exhaust notes.
That car is bananas, so fun to drive. I had the 2013 e92 m3 competition but very similar. Incredible luxury, 3.9 second 0-60 that literally slammed your head back into the seat producing a stupidly happy grin.
The best part of that car was the handling/suspension and the stereo though. You could put it in M Dynamic Mode, which let you do controlled drifts. Shredded tires, but goodness it was fun to drift corners everywhere.
The sound system was the best I've ever heard, far better than a custom $4,000 system. 800 watts, a 10 inch sub under both front seats. That car was the closest thing to perfection I've personally ever driven. Its only real flaw was it didn't have quite enough low end torque ( 300 lb ft ) because it was a naturally aspirated v8. Plus you had to really baby the throttle on the low end so the tires wouldn't start sliding around when you accelerated from a stop.
I had literally 0 problems with it in three years outside of the stupid Takata airbag recall, which is why I didn't keep it. But you can't blame that on bmw. Plus I mean I spent a lot on tires, but that's on me :-)
At the time I test drove a comparable tesla and thought it accelerated really slow and had poor handling. Also it didn't even have a backup camera, decent stereo, or integration with popular music streaming services. But I hear they have gotten better.
For me the big benefit of the tesla is that you can shave 15-20 minutes off your commute by using the carpool lane and still have a decent car. Plus you are doing something to offset climate change.
In this test performed by the show host (not a professional driver) the Tesla Model 3 won for 1/4 mile, 0-100-0, and the hot lap. The BMW M3 was deemed “more fun to drift”. Looks good for the Tesla!
I'm not sure it really won the spirit of the 0-100-0. Yes it completed the task faster, but it also required more distance, implying that it takes significantly longer to brake. A quick search suggests this is a known Model 3 weakness.
Edit: It would have been more honest to have one test of acceleration and another of only braking. Also, the Tesla won the hot-lap but had significant body roll that made it difficult to stay on the track... This video is really only appealing to people who already like the Tesla.
Does anyone trust topgear for actual reviews, especially when tesla is involved? The courts literally ruled that you shouldn't:
> Mr Justice Tugendhat said that no Top Gear viewer would have reasonably compared the car's performance on the show's airfield track to its likely performance on a public road
Top Gear is under new ownership. Clarkson and Wilman sold the IP to the BBC and took their team with them to Amazon; post-2016 Top Gear is a completely new entity operating under old branding.
The new Top Gear has been nothing but fair about EVs and has given glowing reviews to several all-electric models.
Top gear is automotive themed entertainment, not automotive entertainment. Much to the dismay of many a Hilux fanboy you really shouldn't be taking shows like this as indicative of fact any more than you take that gold mining show on discovery as indicative of the economics of the mining industry.
Clarkson and co haven't been involved with Top Gear for a while now - even before that though, the Top Gear website has always been much more "sensible" than the TV show. TBH, it always felt completely separate.
These super fast cars are a threat to life and safety in urban environments. EV or not, these fast vehicles should not be sold as these speeds do not serve any valid purpose.
I just came here to say something similar. It drives me nuts that this sort of power and performance is let loose on public streets.
At some point I would think we'd be able to have some sort of geofencing system were a car would be forced into "golf cart" mode once it's off the highway.
On the contrary, as an owner of a slow/heavy 2002 luxury vehicle, the improved acceleration and braking of newer cars offers the individual and machine a greater range of options to avoid danger and improve safety for the passenger.
I think the 0-100-0 point should go to BMW because it stopped a few meters before Tesla (visible at 00:02:45). This can make a difference in real traffic.
I admittedly haven't watched the video yet (although I plan to and will update my comment), but as someone who really wants to love an EV, the technology just isn't there for me yet. The range is not nearly enough for me. Yes, 300 miles is not enough. Just this weekend I drove between LA and SF twice, and while I had to stop and get gas it took me 5 minutes instead of however long it would take me to charge the car enough to make it the rest of the way (I'd guess around 30 minutes). This is absolutely positively unacceptable when I just want to get from point A to point B, at least for me. The other factor is that batteries are heavy, and this destroys how fun a car is. Weight is always the enemy with performance vehicles (and I feel an M3 is too heavy as well actually). Yes, the cars have incredible acceleration - better than the majority of performance vehicles. But they handle like shit, and this is coming from someone who test drove a Tesla after driving there in a '94 Camry. I honestly preferred the way the Camry handled, and everyone would unequivocally agree my Camry was a piece of shit (parts of the car were actually falling off of it). The other thing to consider is that batteries overheat, so it can only go around the track I believe once or twice before you have to pull over for it to cool down.
However, the idea of instant acceleration, a flat torque band, silent performance, and less pollution is very appealing to me. But the technology just isn't there for me yet, plus the inconvenience of the currently limited charging network compared to gas stations. Yes, I know it's getting better and I'm happy that it works for many people, but it does not work for me. I look forward to the day it does.
This is why I believe that plug-in hybrids will last much longer than people expect. I know most techno-geeks think that PHEVs (Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles) are "stop-gap" technologies.... but they solve the range problem AND solve the "batteries are heavy" problem very elegantly.
Lets be frank: Li-Ion batteries may have gotten dramatically lighter, but they're no where close to how light gasoline is. PHEVs allow gasoline engines to operate at their optimal power-generation band as a gasoline generator (optimizing your gas milage), while also using standard electric connections to charge on a daily basis.
So you don't need many Li-Ion batteries for PHEVs (lighter car, cheaper to make). You still get the flat torque band of EVs, and if you manage to charge your vehicle within 50-miles, you won't use any gasoline either.
In the long term, gas stations will grow less profitable as electricity becomes sufficient for 80+% of driving cases. But it seems more sustainable to downscale gas stations in the USA rather than to build out a supercharging network.
--------------
Pure-electric high performance cars like Model S will be fun toys for those who can afford it. But PHEVs are the ones that seem to make financial sense for the majority of consumers. Be it the Prius Prime, Chevy Volt, or Honda Clarity.
I agree with the basic sentiment that EVs have potential but aren't quite there yet.
One issue that I've seen raised a few times now is how honest the environmental credentials of these EVs really are. Sure, you aren't emitting pollution from your petrol/diesel engine as you drive. However, you have the emissions from whatever electricity source you use for charging instead, which obviously depends on how environmentally friendly or otherwise your power supply is. Crucially, you also have the effects of manufacturing these vehicles. Particularly when it comes to the batteries, those are still very significant. On top of that, batteries for EVs are heavy, and shifting all that extra weight around has a cost as well.
Just last week, there was a study being widely reported that suggested the true overall lifetime CO2 emissions given typical lifetime and usage levels for a car would make an electric vehicle worse than a diesel one of otherwise similar specification, much of this due to the hidden costs in mining key elements used in the battery.
Given that some of the materials involved are also relatively rare (or at least relatively difficult to supply viably in large quantities) I think the jury is still out on whether the modern generation of EVs will bring the big improvements that some of the environmentalists are hoping for.
Edit: To those anonymously downvoting, it would be more constructive and probably a lot more interesting to discuss actual facts and scientific evidence. For example, if you know of substantial, robust research on the environmental impacts of mining the materials needed for EV batteries on a scale where these vehicles become mass market rather than a niche product, please share it so the rest of us can learn something. Likewise, if you have substantial knowledge about the likely efficiency of improving EV technology, charging facilities and the sources behind them compared to other new or evolving models for powering vehicles over the next 10-20 years such as hybrid models or alternative fuels, please comment accordingly.
[+] [-] rootusrootus|7 years ago|reply
It really, really depends on what you want from a car. If you want to win stoplight races, almost nothing will hang with a P3D. And if you're not an enthusiast, then it's probably sportier than anything you're familiar with. Go for it.
[+] [-] gcatalfamo|7 years ago|reply
Yes my opinion is subjective. But if you like cars you might know what I am talking about.
[+] [-] dplgk|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdhn|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toomuchtodo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diab0lic|7 years ago|reply
It was however incredibly expensive to maintain, especially those competition package brakes!
A friend of mine has the Model 3, but not the performance version. He hasn't had it long but the torque is very comparable and I'll bet the maintenance is quite a bit lower.
That said I'll miss that RWD behavior and those exhaust notes.
[+] [-] davidjnelson|7 years ago|reply
The best part of that car was the handling/suspension and the stereo though. You could put it in M Dynamic Mode, which let you do controlled drifts. Shredded tires, but goodness it was fun to drift corners everywhere.
The sound system was the best I've ever heard, far better than a custom $4,000 system. 800 watts, a 10 inch sub under both front seats. That car was the closest thing to perfection I've personally ever driven. Its only real flaw was it didn't have quite enough low end torque ( 300 lb ft ) because it was a naturally aspirated v8. Plus you had to really baby the throttle on the low end so the tires wouldn't start sliding around when you accelerated from a stop.
I had literally 0 problems with it in three years outside of the stupid Takata airbag recall, which is why I didn't keep it. But you can't blame that on bmw. Plus I mean I spent a lot on tires, but that's on me :-)
At the time I test drove a comparable tesla and thought it accelerated really slow and had poor handling. Also it didn't even have a backup camera, decent stereo, or integration with popular music streaming services. But I hear they have gotten better.
For me the big benefit of the tesla is that you can shave 15-20 minutes off your commute by using the carpool lane and still have a decent car. Plus you are doing something to offset climate change.
[+] [-] jklm|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TaylorAlexander|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ynniv|7 years ago|reply
Edit: It would have been more honest to have one test of acceleration and another of only braking. Also, the Tesla won the hot-lap but had significant body roll that made it difficult to stay on the track... This video is really only appealing to people who already like the Tesla.
[+] [-] davidjnelson|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soared|7 years ago|reply
> Mr Justice Tugendhat said that no Top Gear viewer would have reasonably compared the car's performance on the show's airfield track to its likely performance on a public road
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_controversies#Tesla_R...
[+] [-] jdietrich|7 years ago|reply
The new Top Gear has been nothing but fair about EVs and has given glowing reviews to several all-electric models.
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GordonS|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cobalt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jak92|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tosser0001|7 years ago|reply
At some point I would think we'd be able to have some sort of geofencing system were a car would be forced into "golf cart" mode once it's off the highway.
[+] [-] joyeuse6701|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leetbulb|7 years ago|reply
Cannot stand watching a video surrounded by a ton of crap.
[+] [-] Nerdfest|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hwj|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Pokepokalypse|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dillonmckay|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sctb|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Judgmentality|7 years ago|reply
However, the idea of instant acceleration, a flat torque band, silent performance, and less pollution is very appealing to me. But the technology just isn't there for me yet, plus the inconvenience of the currently limited charging network compared to gas stations. Yes, I know it's getting better and I'm happy that it works for many people, but it does not work for me. I look forward to the day it does.
[+] [-] dragontamer|7 years ago|reply
Lets be frank: Li-Ion batteries may have gotten dramatically lighter, but they're no where close to how light gasoline is. PHEVs allow gasoline engines to operate at their optimal power-generation band as a gasoline generator (optimizing your gas milage), while also using standard electric connections to charge on a daily basis.
So you don't need many Li-Ion batteries for PHEVs (lighter car, cheaper to make). You still get the flat torque band of EVs, and if you manage to charge your vehicle within 50-miles, you won't use any gasoline either.
In the long term, gas stations will grow less profitable as electricity becomes sufficient for 80+% of driving cases. But it seems more sustainable to downscale gas stations in the USA rather than to build out a supercharging network.
--------------
Pure-electric high performance cars like Model S will be fun toys for those who can afford it. But PHEVs are the ones that seem to make financial sense for the majority of consumers. Be it the Prius Prime, Chevy Volt, or Honda Clarity.
[+] [-] cyrildorsaz|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Silhouette|7 years ago|reply
One issue that I've seen raised a few times now is how honest the environmental credentials of these EVs really are. Sure, you aren't emitting pollution from your petrol/diesel engine as you drive. However, you have the emissions from whatever electricity source you use for charging instead, which obviously depends on how environmentally friendly or otherwise your power supply is. Crucially, you also have the effects of manufacturing these vehicles. Particularly when it comes to the batteries, those are still very significant. On top of that, batteries for EVs are heavy, and shifting all that extra weight around has a cost as well.
Just last week, there was a study being widely reported that suggested the true overall lifetime CO2 emissions given typical lifetime and usage levels for a car would make an electric vehicle worse than a diesel one of otherwise similar specification, much of this due to the hidden costs in mining key elements used in the battery.
Given that some of the materials involved are also relatively rare (or at least relatively difficult to supply viably in large quantities) I think the jury is still out on whether the modern generation of EVs will bring the big improvements that some of the environmentalists are hoping for.
Edit: To those anonymously downvoting, it would be more constructive and probably a lot more interesting to discuss actual facts and scientific evidence. For example, if you know of substantial, robust research on the environmental impacts of mining the materials needed for EV batteries on a scale where these vehicles become mass market rather than a niche product, please share it so the rest of us can learn something. Likewise, if you have substantial knowledge about the likely efficiency of improving EV technology, charging facilities and the sources behind them compared to other new or evolving models for powering vehicles over the next 10-20 years such as hybrid models or alternative fuels, please comment accordingly.