speaking from experience as an engine mechanic for a small chain of shops in the midwest, ive done "Tesla authorized" suspension work before and its a hassle to say the least.
Normal cars and hybrids are mostly an in-and-out kind of thing where the billable hours are fixed/known and you get a real choice in parts. Bilstein vs generic shocks or holly cams for example. With tesla, everything has to come from California. Control arms for example, which i could probably find one that will fit any Tesla, must be shipped from a warehouse certified. This took 5 weeks to deliver and the customer was furious that we would not keep the car in our garage for that long. Luckily they were close to the shop, so we waived a second tow charge and after a seriously long wait for parts, got the vehicle back on the road again.
Tesla sometimes makes you do weird things like ship the old arms/linkage/etc.. back to them. Other times you might need to take pictures expressly for them, or call them after work is completed. Its a serious PITA for a car that could easily just get TRG or Moog aftermarket arms in about 3 days, but if you do, youll lose your "tesla certified" status in a heartbeat.
> Tesla sometimes makes you do weird things like ship the old arms/linkage/etc.. back to them. Other times you might need to take pictures expressly for them, or call them after work is completed.
to be fair, mazda had the same requirements when my dealership was making engine repairs on my mx5 ... in their case, there was something wrong and they were actively trying to get to the bottom of the failures. i can understand if tesla were doing the same thing: tracking failure modes of specific parts.
> With tesla, everything has to come from California.
Weird to say the least. Normal car shops get spare parts at least once a day, bigger car shops even several times a day, even parts they ordered just that day. Five weeks for a replacement part?!
Wow - That sounds like a massive logistical efficiency failure.
I could even see people tolerating higher prices (as it is a Tesla, etc) - but that long of a delay is insane. I wonder how many Tesla owners regret their purchase after experiencing a crazy-ass long delay like that.
To be clear: I want Tesla to succeed. However I am also a realist - they have a lot of PR issues that would sink them if they were for example Ford/Chevy/BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc.
I wanted to defend Tesla by pointing out that spinning up a maintenance network will have substantial lag, since it's a second-order operation.
But I read this and I wonder if they're really thinking it through, or doing any modeling of their business. From your description they seem to be doing everything they can do to gum up their own works.
How much of this is because Tesla is new and the aftermarket support isn't there yet? I also see you mention "Tesla certified", but there are plenty of non-certified shops people take their Tesla/Non-Tesla cars to all the time.
Took 5 months to get my 2016 Model S back after I was hit.
I loved this car, but frankly I never again want to deal with them. Cancelled my Model 3 order, and now tell everyone that asks me about the car to stay away.
4 months for my 2016 Model S. Most of this time (all but 2 weeks, I think) was waiting for airbag related parts. Missed the entire summer last year -- accident in May, got the car back in September. Suffered crappy rental cars.
This was a lease, and my wife and I did not get another after the lease return. Definitely makes me hesitant about getting another.
Tesla is terrible when to comes to service. They actively discourage you from going to the service center. You cannot talk to people on the phone as the wait time is always more than 30 mins. They are stretched really thin in the service department. They need to at least have three times the staff and centers they have today.
Interestingly I haven’t seen one thread about this on r/Tesla over on reddit. They completely pray at the altar of Musk.
I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times in the last four years. I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes on the phone or at the counter. I have had a couple emails get lost, but after a bump or two I got the answers I needed.
Appointments do book out a few weeks, but scheduling is pretty easy (especially now that it's all online). The one time something urgent came up with my car, they took me without an appointment, and even put me in a rental car since they were out of loaners.
I've never had service anywhere near that good when I had a Toyota or a Subaru.
My experience is that they want to send out mobile service units in preference to having you take the car in -- which isn't that much of a problem in my eyes.
If Tesla was making 10 times as many cars, I doubt this would be a serious issue. Much of it is a matter of scale.
Tesla is doing something nearly impossible. I'm not surprised it's having difficulties here. It has always been the case that failure is a serious possibility.
Not only is starting a car company hard, but an electric car company is especially hard. Margins are so thin in carmaking in general, that you depend on scale to make things like maintenance doable.
With gas prices low and EV credits disappearing, the natural outcome of all these pressures when fossil fuels are not paying for their externalities is that the electric car maker will fail.
And unfortunately, it's not like other electric car makers in the US are doing any better. EVs tend to be a loss-leader (halo cars or compliance cars) for traditional manufacturers. GM ended their Volt production. And my experience on Volt forums is that it's incredibly hard to get dealers to service electric cars because they also don't have qualified staff. And that's for vehicles that can take advantage of the GM ecosystem for things that aren't powertrain related. I own a Volt and a Leaf. The Leaf also has had many issues with powertrain maintenance (more than Tesla) in spite of using a very similar vehicle platform to the traditional vehicles Nissan produces.
I look at those saying we have to pull out all stops to address 1.5 degrees C of climate warming, and then I look at our utter failure to pass meaningful federal measures to support electrification of transport, even letting our previous ones expire while China takes enormous strides in standing up their electric vehicle industry... It's as if we literally don't care. We're just going to let the American electric car industry fail. In fact, several states are passing and have passed extra taxes on electric vehicles in order to "compensate" for lost gas tax revenue (although basically universally over-estimating how many miles EV owners drive per year, thus actually taxing them HIGHER than gas drivers).
...and considering all that (Losing a $7500 credit and gas prices now about $6000 less over the life of the car compared to a few years ago), I actually think Tesla is doing fairly well. They're going to have to quickly expand beyond America, though, because we are failing them.
EDIT: Rivian is in a similar boat. Their products look amazing, but they're starting from scratch in a low-margin business at a time of low gas prices. Hopefully both Rivian and Tesla can make it. But without the support from the federal government like firms in Europe and especially China, it's quite possible both will fail.
As a Model S owner, this is one of the things that worries me a lot. I rely on my Model S to make my commute "bearable" (via Carpool lane use), which even a covered insurance rental car isn't likely to enable.
Doubling my commute time for months would drive me nuts.
I hope an infusion of cash is going to help the parts department and decrease the latency around parts getting built.
I hope that the new insurance business they are getting into will take this into account: I'd pay extra to have my insurance give me an exact same loaner with the same "carpool friendly" characteristics while my car is in the shop. When insurance companies are on the hook to pay for a rental during repairs, they tend to ensure that the repairs don't take too long, as they have an incentive to minimize their rental costs: that's a good thing because it means the incentives are aligned with the customer.
Early last year it took me around 2 months to get a windshield replaced on a 2016 Model S. From what I understand, they have changed the design of so many components as they iterate that they often have to custom order parts to support "older" vehicles.
On the other hand, my Model 3 has needed critical servicing for the last 6 months but they haven't received the parts in yet (I also live next to the factory in Fremont).
It can be a hassle, but they are a young car company and I'm willing to put up with beta testing their cars because I want the company to succeed and I do still prefer their products compared to anything else on the market.
reading the comments, I'm really amazed to see so many owners that complain about lengthy delays, but are "ready to put with it" because they want Tesla to succeed.
This would never fly for any other car companies.
Once more, it confirms to me that people buy a Tesla as a symbol//cult more than as a vehicle. Teslafans want to be recognized as those next level earth-friendly yuppies socialites. And it really scares me to see how many here go blindly with it.
In my experience, the convenience of Tesla's mobile service—they come to you for most repairs—somewhat offsets the slow parts delivery time.
One of my neighbors took out the passenger side mirror on my model S (knocked the whole assembly clean off). It took about a week to get the replacement parts, but once the parts were in, we scheduled a time for them to come out and fix it in the parking lot next to my apartment. No driving halfway across town to a dealership, waiting around, or having to arrange transportation to pick my car back up. A similar repair for my BMW would have consumed at least half a day of my time - this took 5-10 minutes at most. (And the tech was way more friendly and knowledgeable than anyone I've ever dealt with at a dealership.)
FWIW, many aftermarket repair services and even some dealerships offer the same kind of service, too. For example, when someone broke a window on my civic, a local glass replacement place came out the next day and fixed it at my office parking lot. However, it’s important to note that there’s a difference between this kind of basic repair work and something complex like replacing a brake assembly, which requires a lot more equipment.
Very well known issue among tesla fans. Been going on a long time so promises of a quick fix are just that unfortunately.
If you are a bit higher income / time is money type of person or situation, lack of parts avail for repair (and the time /hassle that causes) and/or an inability to get at home EV charging would be the only two reasons not to get a tesla I think.
I am very grateful for folks who have flagged this up. If you hate getting the service runaround on car repairs (waste of time / etc) then the heads up we are getting on this is critical really.
Currently drive an Audi - obviously planned on going to Tesla but holding off until this get's sorted.
This is more like exception handling than scheduled maintenance.
Owners were in accidents and needed urgent repairs. They took the vehicles to Tesla Authorized (but not Tesla) repair centers. Those repair centers had issues getting parts.
The experience is totally different than scheduled maintenance.
We had an issue with the dash panel on ours and scheduled an appointment with Tesla for work under warranty. They asked for pictures and made sure the part was on hand when we showed up. They swapped it out in under an hour and offered us a loaner or Lyft ride in the mean time.
I suspect wait times are lower in areas with fewer Tesla owners who need service.
I live in Silicon Valley and Teslas are everywhere. I know quite a few people who own them, and they all complain about reliability -- primarily software problems. If all of the Teslas on the road are as unreliable as the ones my friends own, there is probably a long line of owners waiting for service.
Are you in one of the major metro areas are you in a smaller city, and are you being serviced by Tesla directly or an authorized mechanic? Also I think scheduled maintenance would be things you could prepare for, whereas this article is talking about repairs for presumably unanticipated events.
Also, scheduled maintenance took a couple of days? I get antsy when I have to wait more than a couple of hours.
I almost picked up a part from two states over when Tesla went radio silent for a month plus after 2 months of 'repairs'. Absolute worst customer service I have ever experienced.
So should everyone stop reporting on the failures of a company? I’m hopeful Tesla figures these problems out, but media pressure can only really help in this situation.
Just adding that my model X has been in the shop since December 30th (self-drove into a highway divider.. nobody was hurt). So up over 4 months now and I'm just assuming there's no chance I'm getting it back before labor day.
Tesla needs to develop a network of partner garages where mechanics are properly trained, needed parts are supplied quickly, and car owners can get to in a convenient manner. Post sale experience is just as important as show-room experience. Tesla focuses more on pre-sale (ludicrous mode, autopilot) because the garage experience is only visible long after sale.
A few years ago I had to do some work on the suspension of my car (replace 2 springs) and everything was done in about 4-6 hours, including the regular checks and some other minor stuff. It took about 2h for the parts the mechanic ordered next to me to arrive. One acquaintance with a Model S waited ~10-12 days for more or less the same kind of work (he could still drive the car but still). And that's because we're in a region with easy access to anything, especially auto-related.
> Tesla needs to develop a network of partner garages where mechanics are properly trained, needed parts are supplied quickly, and car owners can get to in a convenient manner.
Yeah. We could call them dealerships, of which there are none for Tesla. I hear that's part of the reason they can get away with not releasing diagnostic tools, parts, etc. to third parties.
The problem is that Tesla wants to control everything tightly including parts. In general, distributed control (capitalism) is more flexible than central control (communism). However Tesla doesn't want to lose control.
[+] [-] nimbius|6 years ago|reply
Normal cars and hybrids are mostly an in-and-out kind of thing where the billable hours are fixed/known and you get a real choice in parts. Bilstein vs generic shocks or holly cams for example. With tesla, everything has to come from California. Control arms for example, which i could probably find one that will fit any Tesla, must be shipped from a warehouse certified. This took 5 weeks to deliver and the customer was furious that we would not keep the car in our garage for that long. Luckily they were close to the shop, so we waived a second tow charge and after a seriously long wait for parts, got the vehicle back on the road again.
Tesla sometimes makes you do weird things like ship the old arms/linkage/etc.. back to them. Other times you might need to take pictures expressly for them, or call them after work is completed. Its a serious PITA for a car that could easily just get TRG or Moog aftermarket arms in about 3 days, but if you do, youll lose your "tesla certified" status in a heartbeat.
[+] [-] jerrysievert|6 years ago|reply
to be fair, mazda had the same requirements when my dealership was making engine repairs on my mx5 ... in their case, there was something wrong and they were actively trying to get to the bottom of the failures. i can understand if tesla were doing the same thing: tracking failure modes of specific parts.
[+] [-] blattimwind|6 years ago|reply
Weird to say the least. Normal car shops get spare parts at least once a day, bigger car shops even several times a day, even parts they ordered just that day. Five weeks for a replacement part?!
[+] [-] 420codebro|6 years ago|reply
I could even see people tolerating higher prices (as it is a Tesla, etc) - but that long of a delay is insane. I wonder how many Tesla owners regret their purchase after experiencing a crazy-ass long delay like that.
To be clear: I want Tesla to succeed. However I am also a realist - they have a lot of PR issues that would sink them if they were for example Ford/Chevy/BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc.
[+] [-] jacques_chester|6 years ago|reply
But I read this and I wonder if they're really thinking it through, or doing any modeling of their business. From your description they seem to be doing everything they can do to gum up their own works.
[+] [-] houqp|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rconti|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vkhn|6 years ago|reply
Took 5 months to get my 2016 Model S back after I was hit.
I loved this car, but frankly I never again want to deal with them. Cancelled my Model 3 order, and now tell everyone that asks me about the car to stay away.
[+] [-] rickmode|6 years ago|reply
This was a lease, and my wife and I did not get another after the lease return. Definitely makes me hesitant about getting another.
[+] [-] TheTruth1234|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dominotw|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yalogin|6 years ago|reply
Interestingly I haven’t seen one thread about this on r/Tesla over on reddit. They completely pray at the altar of Musk.
[+] [-] freerobby|6 years ago|reply
I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times in the last four years. I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes on the phone or at the counter. I have had a couple emails get lost, but after a bump or two I got the answers I needed.
Appointments do book out a few weeks, but scheduling is pretty easy (especially now that it's all online). The one time something urgent came up with my car, they took me without an appointment, and even put me in a rental car since they were out of loaners.
I've never had service anywhere near that good when I had a Toyota or a Subaru.
[+] [-] unityByFreedom|6 years ago|reply
> My own car was repaired in a "relatively short" two weeks.
>> No that's "very short." Ours took 6 months.
>>> Mine took 3.5 months!
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/bjhimk/san_fra...
[+] [-] goshx|6 years ago|reply
I scheduled service through the app, got there on time and out with my car in less than one hour.
[+] [-] carlivar|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greglindahl|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Robotbeat|6 years ago|reply
Tesla is doing something nearly impossible. I'm not surprised it's having difficulties here. It has always been the case that failure is a serious possibility.
Not only is starting a car company hard, but an electric car company is especially hard. Margins are so thin in carmaking in general, that you depend on scale to make things like maintenance doable.
With gas prices low and EV credits disappearing, the natural outcome of all these pressures when fossil fuels are not paying for their externalities is that the electric car maker will fail.
And unfortunately, it's not like other electric car makers in the US are doing any better. EVs tend to be a loss-leader (halo cars or compliance cars) for traditional manufacturers. GM ended their Volt production. And my experience on Volt forums is that it's incredibly hard to get dealers to service electric cars because they also don't have qualified staff. And that's for vehicles that can take advantage of the GM ecosystem for things that aren't powertrain related. I own a Volt and a Leaf. The Leaf also has had many issues with powertrain maintenance (more than Tesla) in spite of using a very similar vehicle platform to the traditional vehicles Nissan produces.
I look at those saying we have to pull out all stops to address 1.5 degrees C of climate warming, and then I look at our utter failure to pass meaningful federal measures to support electrification of transport, even letting our previous ones expire while China takes enormous strides in standing up their electric vehicle industry... It's as if we literally don't care. We're just going to let the American electric car industry fail. In fact, several states are passing and have passed extra taxes on electric vehicles in order to "compensate" for lost gas tax revenue (although basically universally over-estimating how many miles EV owners drive per year, thus actually taxing them HIGHER than gas drivers).
...and considering all that (Losing a $7500 credit and gas prices now about $6000 less over the life of the car compared to a few years ago), I actually think Tesla is doing fairly well. They're going to have to quickly expand beyond America, though, because we are failing them.
EDIT: Rivian is in a similar boat. Their products look amazing, but they're starting from scratch in a low-margin business at a time of low gas prices. Hopefully both Rivian and Tesla can make it. But without the support from the federal government like firms in Europe and especially China, it's quite possible both will fail.
[+] [-] 2Ccltvcm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magnetic|6 years ago|reply
Doubling my commute time for months would drive me nuts.
I hope an infusion of cash is going to help the parts department and decrease the latency around parts getting built.
I hope that the new insurance business they are getting into will take this into account: I'd pay extra to have my insurance give me an exact same loaner with the same "carpool friendly" characteristics while my car is in the shop. When insurance companies are on the hook to pay for a rental during repairs, they tend to ensure that the repairs don't take too long, as they have an incentive to minimize their rental costs: that's a good thing because it means the incentives are aligned with the customer.
[+] [-] ksherlock|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mehrdada|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iso1337|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|6 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5178956,-122.2656497,107m/da...
[+] [-] jstandard|6 years ago|reply
They are swimming in wrecked or poorly put together Model S/3s.
His accounts match the tone of the article, though Chilton experiences it to a lesser extent since they're so close to the Tesla mothership.
[+] [-] manav|6 years ago|reply
On the other hand, my Model 3 has needed critical servicing for the last 6 months but they haven't received the parts in yet (I also live next to the factory in Fremont).
It can be a hassle, but they are a young car company and I'm willing to put up with beta testing their cars because I want the company to succeed and I do still prefer their products compared to anything else on the market.
[+] [-] warp_factor|6 years ago|reply
This would never fly for any other car companies.
Once more, it confirms to me that people buy a Tesla as a symbol//cult more than as a vehicle. Teslafans want to be recognized as those next level earth-friendly yuppies socialites. And it really scares me to see how many here go blindly with it.
[+] [-] akvadrako|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dpifke|6 years ago|reply
One of my neighbors took out the passenger side mirror on my model S (knocked the whole assembly clean off). It took about a week to get the replacement parts, but once the parts were in, we scheduled a time for them to come out and fix it in the parking lot next to my apartment. No driving halfway across town to a dealership, waiting around, or having to arrange transportation to pick my car back up. A similar repair for my BMW would have consumed at least half a day of my time - this took 5-10 minutes at most. (And the tech was way more friendly and knowledgeable than anyone I've ever dealt with at a dealership.)
[+] [-] mdorazio|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] privateSFacct|6 years ago|reply
If you are a bit higher income / time is money type of person or situation, lack of parts avail for repair (and the time /hassle that causes) and/or an inability to get at home EV charging would be the only two reasons not to get a tesla I think.
I am very grateful for folks who have flagged this up. If you hate getting the service runaround on car repairs (waste of time / etc) then the heads up we are getting on this is critical really.
Currently drive an Audi - obviously planned on going to Tesla but holding off until this get's sorted.
[+] [-] chomp|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisseaton|6 years ago|reply
Is taking days normal or reasonable for car maintenance? I've never had my conventional car in for maintenance for more than about six hours.
[+] [-] LandR|6 years ago|reply
When I had a car I wouldn't expect it to be away for more than a day unless it was having extensive work done.
Most things like regular servicing, fixing niggles it's a case of drop it off in the morning and pick it up later in the day.
[+] [-] cptskippy|6 years ago|reply
Owners were in accidents and needed urgent repairs. They took the vehicles to Tesla Authorized (but not Tesla) repair centers. Those repair centers had issues getting parts.
The experience is totally different than scheduled maintenance.
We had an issue with the dash panel on ours and scheduled an appointment with Tesla for work under warranty. They asked for pictures and made sure the part was on hand when we showed up. They swapped it out in under an hour and offered us a loaner or Lyft ride in the mean time.
[+] [-] twblalock|6 years ago|reply
I live in Silicon Valley and Teslas are everywhere. I know quite a few people who own them, and they all complain about reliability -- primarily software problems. If all of the Teslas on the road are as unreliable as the ones my friends own, there is probably a long line of owners waiting for service.
[+] [-] bdcravens|6 years ago|reply
Also, scheduled maintenance took a couple of days? I get antsy when I have to wait more than a couple of hours.
[+] [-] pkaye|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] powerbroker|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] labmixz|7 years ago|reply
It's been a topic for a very long time, not just repair delays, but basic maintenance needing to be scheduled months out.
[+] [-] willio58|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tempest1981|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] zhoujianfu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] close04|6 years ago|reply
A few years ago I had to do some work on the suspension of my car (replace 2 springs) and everything was done in about 4-6 hours, including the regular checks and some other minor stuff. It took about 2h for the parts the mechanic ordered next to me to arrive. One acquaintance with a Model S waited ~10-12 days for more or less the same kind of work (he could still drive the car but still). And that's because we're in a region with easy access to anything, especially auto-related.
[+] [-] frosted-flakes|6 years ago|reply
Yeah. We could call them dealerships, of which there are none for Tesla. I hear that's part of the reason they can get away with not releasing diagnostic tools, parts, etc. to third parties.
[+] [-] marcinzm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] newnewpdro|6 years ago|reply