I don't trust advertising companies with more intimate data about things inside my home. A phone and computers is bad enough. Fortunately there's a good solution for me (today) and for everyone (hopefully soon).
Home Assistant [1] has been a Github-topping repo for a while. You've seen it here on HN several times [2]. It's a Python 3 open-source home automation platform that runs on a Raspberry Pi or other home server. Local data, local control. It's been being bootstrapped by tinkerers who can handle YAML config files for a while but is getting much fancier these days.
When Google shut down Revolv hubs in 2016, they posted rationale about why your hub should be open and local [3]. This kind of move further justifies the argument.
As big companies clamor over access to your home, let's take a stand by demanding open standards, local data options, and local control.
100%. I’ve also been using HA for a while now and have been very impressed. Tons of integrations including a number of z-wave and WiFi thermostats — so you don’t have to bother with this Nest / Google nonsense if you don’t want to.
As HA approaches version 1.0, I hope more people will jump onboard.
One of the tough things about open source software and especially HomeAssistant (long time user here!) is that HomeAssistant connects to many services, a lot of which use some sort of oAuth protocol, which in turn requires a client key/client secret, which can't be embedded in the software. For Nest, it requires every installation/user to create a new key/application with Nest/Google, for what in many ways is the same software. There must be a better way - in the end all that's being given back is a client key which is used in the actual authentication.
> We’ll stop accepting new WWN connections on August 31, 2019.
> One of the most popular WWN features is to automatically trigger routines based on Home/Away status. Later this year, we'll bring that same functionality to the Google Assistant and provide more device options for you to choose from.
I'm sorry, but... What?
You're sorry that you've caught developers and users by surprise, but the main functionality that they want won't appear until some unknown time in the future? And they should just trust you that this will actually happen after you yanked the carpet out from under them once already?
This coming from the company that removed the YouTube subscription collections feature promising they’d replace it with something better 4+ years ago.[1] Of course I’m still waiting on that promise to be fulfilled.
Google has become a big horrible disaster. I'm extremely disappointed in what is going on these days.
I am a heavy user of Nest (7 cameras, other accessories). I've fully bought into the ecosystem. I literally have no idea what's going on. It sounds to me who is only casually paying attention that they're killing off Nest and the Nest brand. Whether that may or may not be true, they need to understand the perception of their actions to their users. Do they really expect most people to say "Okay, I need to spend 10 minutes and read through exactly what this all means."
Now I'm left with the dreaded feeling that my Dropcams and Nestcams will no longer work in the near future.
Google has really damaged their brand because I no longer consider them reliable. If I buy a brand that is associated with Google, I expect that it will get changed in the next year or so into something that I can't comprehend or don't want, and it makes me want to search for alternatives.
I don't want to "merge" my accouns with Google Home. I want to keep my single account on Nest like I have for many years now, and I just want alerts and to be able to see my cameras. All this other nonsense that they're trying to pull me into is not what I want as a consumer, and it upsets me that Google is becoming this kind of company.
They are in many ways worse than Microsoft was at their worst. Before Microsoft used to be a monopoly on the desktop, but Google is now turning into a monopoly in my entire life.
Meanwhile, Nest has been dormant for most of its existence, releasing only a few features. But in terms of cameras it's the most reliable which is why I stick with it. But there are so many opportunities for them to improve this service and it feels abandoned. Instead of adding features, like animal detection or car detection, they are worried about how I log in or who my account is? That's just stupid.
I refuse to buy google hardware after the horrible mess they made with their tablets, My first Gen Nexus 7 died due to hardware failure and they refused to admit or fix it, then I bought a second gen and the last firmware update bricked it. Such Garbage
Like a car company with a 7 year warranty, with a guarantee of support for parts for the life of the house.
Google have a responsibility to their customers. In this case, the customers are the people that actually buy the hardware. It's not "Temperature As A Service".
I think Google just realized the path they were taking was too short. They underestimated the nest contingent which is funny considering how much data they collect.
It seems like product management and engineering wanted to do it quickly and didn't do enough customer homework.
Then they had to backtrack, still sounding like douches because of their "if we change our minds we will keep you informed" tidbit.
I'm genuinely curious about their Alexa support through the transition. Seems they are willing to give away customers who want nest and nothing else.
> In HN's thoughts, how should Google have approached this?
Google/Nest created an API for developers to use with an associated slogan to for marketing if end-user devices which people buy with a 10+ year plan of ownership because it’s built into their bloody homes.
That obligates Google to keep this stuff working for 10+ years, as is, no weasel words. No exceptions. Anything else is a scam.
Edit: looking at Google’s history they clearly don’t have the intention nor ability to do this. Im not buying anything Nest/Google Assistant ever. I’m not interested in time-bombed devices.
I'm surprised anyone still runs their business on a Google dependency. I was trying to use Google maps for Android ca. 2012 - they acknowledged the bugs I filed a few months ago. If a Google product is a dependency of your business, you must get ready for a potential change or switch out said dependency. E.g. Crashlytics for a more recent example.
This is very true. Google is not a reliable partner.
Update: consumers realized this years ago. This is why Google has to announce messaging apps two at a time and cancel them next year. This is why Microsoft products are so extremely popular on Android.
Doing infosec, I see examples and guides for people using Gsuite in a corporate environment. That’s their best supported product and I can’t believe people go for it.
Edit: disagreement apparently but I’ve never seen a serious company that wasn’t in danger or recovering from a breech using it. Maybe it’s just coincidence.
If you look at product changes per user-minute rather than just the percentage of products cancelled, Google APIs are probably more stable than those of any other company.
To be honest, I find it depressing that people needed to protest and complain en masse just to get permission to continue using devices they already own.
Can someone explain for those of us unfamiliar with the many Google products and services: do they "hear" us in the sense that they will allow users to run their own servers for these IoT things, or will they keep users locked in, and will merely support some platform for a little longer?
I think definitely not #1 (make open) and almost certainly #2 (keep alive for now). This is a direct response to the entire Nest integration ecosystem going "what?!" after basically being told they were getting shut off.
"Works with Nest" is getting extended to the end of August, and Google might help some people move over to the Google Assistant powered platform that will replace it.
Just a slightly more reasonable timeline for switchover, but still Assistant-based.
Unbelievable public-relations megacorporation bullshit full of clichés and topical weasel words. Really google, if this is you hearing people, I prefer talking to the European Parliament.
Offtopic, but...is it just me or is there a bug on the 'hide related artices' button? Pressing space while focused on it triggers the action twice. So it just opens/closes.
“Moving forward, we’ll deliver a single consumer and developer experience through the Google Assistant.”
...until 18 months from now when the Android team has more political sway and we announce “Android Home”, a new unified home automation platform to bring all your devices together in one easy to use system, which will allow you to turn your lights off by simply blinking into one of the many Google cameras mounted in your home.
This will be followed in 2022 with the new “Chrome@Home” platform, which will revolutionize home automation by letting you send and receive Morse code messagess with your neighbors via innovative light-turning-off-and-on technology.
Finally, in 2025 we will announce the revolutionary “GoogleOne” home automation system which will allow you to set minimum reading-light thresholds for your teenage children who insist on reading in too-dark rooms simply by yelling “how can you even read in this room?? You’ll go blind if you don’t turn on a light!!” while standing in the appropriate room of your home.
I've seen this same satire about Google multiple times on HN, and have made the same point before myself; I'm curious how many Google employees understand why more and more people are seeing Google's product lines as a joke in that sense. Google makes working software and devices, but does anyone feel like they can count on Google for anything? It seems like few do at this point, and it's mystifying that the higher ups at Google don't seem interested in addressing that perception unless enough people complain, despite the dissatisfaction being totally predictable.
I really wonder whether, if someone with any clout at Google read your comment, they would get the joke or not understand.
On the consumer side Google wants to build billion user products (I’ve heard Google product managers say this). Products that cross that threshold like GMail, Chrome and Android don’t get cancelled. I’m not sure what the enterprise equivalent is to a billion users, perhaps a billion dollars? Regardless offerings like Google App Engine have been around for decades now.
The "We hear you" portion of this just screams "devised by the same marketing team that handled BP's oil scandal". Just talk straight Google, you'll get less hate for it.
That's interesting - Google haven't traditionally "listened" to their end users so far as I can see. This seems to be in the grand Google tradition of moving the carpet from under users' feet.
[+] [-] acidburnNSA|6 years ago|reply
Home Assistant [1] has been a Github-topping repo for a while. You've seen it here on HN several times [2]. It's a Python 3 open-source home automation platform that runs on a Raspberry Pi or other home server. Local data, local control. It's been being bootstrapped by tinkerers who can handle YAML config files for a while but is getting much fancier these days.
When Google shut down Revolv hubs in 2016, they posted rationale about why your hub should be open and local [3]. This kind of move further justifies the argument.
As big companies clamor over access to your home, let's take a stand by demanding open standards, local data options, and local control.
[1] https://www.home-assistant.io/
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15521743
[3] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/04/05/your-hub-shoul...
[4] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/
[+] [-] hanklazard|6 years ago|reply
As HA approaches version 1.0, I hope more people will jump onboard.
[+] [-] joelhaasnoot|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shakna|6 years ago|reply
> One of the most popular WWN features is to automatically trigger routines based on Home/Away status. Later this year, we'll bring that same functionality to the Google Assistant and provide more device options for you to choose from.
I'm sorry, but... What?
You're sorry that you've caught developers and users by surprise, but the main functionality that they want won't appear until some unknown time in the future? And they should just trust you that this will actually happen after you yanked the carpet out from under them once already?
[+] [-] lifeformed|6 years ago|reply
Woah, woah, woah, hold up, I don't recall reading they said they were sorry at all.
[+] [-] hysan|6 years ago|reply
[1]: https://support.google.com/youtube/forum/AAAAiuErobUSpDf7fr3...
[+] [-] ElFitz|6 years ago|reply
Coming from the company that promised geoqueries on Firestore two years ago but still hasn't delivered
"Google. Don't believe a single word"
[+] [-] Animats|6 years ago|reply
Is there an app for "nearby houses with good stuff where nobody is home".
[+] [-] steven2012|6 years ago|reply
I am a heavy user of Nest (7 cameras, other accessories). I've fully bought into the ecosystem. I literally have no idea what's going on. It sounds to me who is only casually paying attention that they're killing off Nest and the Nest brand. Whether that may or may not be true, they need to understand the perception of their actions to their users. Do they really expect most people to say "Okay, I need to spend 10 minutes and read through exactly what this all means."
Now I'm left with the dreaded feeling that my Dropcams and Nestcams will no longer work in the near future.
Google has really damaged their brand because I no longer consider them reliable. If I buy a brand that is associated with Google, I expect that it will get changed in the next year or so into something that I can't comprehend or don't want, and it makes me want to search for alternatives.
I don't want to "merge" my accouns with Google Home. I want to keep my single account on Nest like I have for many years now, and I just want alerts and to be able to see my cameras. All this other nonsense that they're trying to pull me into is not what I want as a consumer, and it upsets me that Google is becoming this kind of company.
They are in many ways worse than Microsoft was at their worst. Before Microsoft used to be a monopoly on the desktop, but Google is now turning into a monopoly in my entire life.
Meanwhile, Nest has been dormant for most of its existence, releasing only a few features. But in terms of cameras it's the most reliable which is why I stick with it. But there are so many opportunities for them to improve this service and it feels abandoned. Instead of adding features, like animal detection or car detection, they are worried about how I log in or who my account is? That's just stupid.
[+] [-] louky|6 years ago|reply
https://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/18/googles-nexus-7-t...
[+] [-] mulmen|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FluffyKitty|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomrod|6 years ago|reply
In HN's thoughts, how should Google have approached this?
(I do not work with or for Google in any capacity).
[+] [-] rswail|6 years ago|reply
Google have a responsibility to their customers. In this case, the customers are the people that actually buy the hardware. It's not "Temperature As A Service".
[+] [-] alttab|6 years ago|reply
It seems like product management and engineering wanted to do it quickly and didn't do enough customer homework.
Then they had to backtrack, still sounding like douches because of their "if we change our minds we will keep you informed" tidbit.
I'm genuinely curious about their Alexa support through the transition. Seems they are willing to give away customers who want nest and nothing else.
[+] [-] mikeash|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josteink|6 years ago|reply
Google/Nest created an API for developers to use with an associated slogan to for marketing if end-user devices which people buy with a 10+ year plan of ownership because it’s built into their bloody homes.
That obligates Google to keep this stuff working for 10+ years, as is, no weasel words. No exceptions. Anything else is a scam.
Edit: looking at Google’s history they clearly don’t have the intention nor ability to do this. Im not buying anything Nest/Google Assistant ever. I’m not interested in time-bombed devices.
[+] [-] zenexer|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dschuler|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panpanna|6 years ago|reply
Update: consumers realized this years ago. This is why Google has to announce messaging apps two at a time and cancel them next year. This is why Microsoft products are so extremely popular on Android.
[+] [-] SlowRobotAhead|6 years ago|reply
Edit: disagreement apparently but I’ve never seen a serious company that wasn’t in danger or recovering from a breech using it. Maybe it’s just coincidence.
[+] [-] Alex3917|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasonhansel|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] richjdsmith|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eyeareque|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] deogeo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] taormina|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shakna|6 years ago|reply
Just a slightly more reasonable timeline for switchover, but still Assistant-based.
[+] [-] pfortuny|6 years ago|reply
At least they do jot hide their politics.
[+] [-] blinky1456|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skywhopper|6 years ago|reply
...until 18 months from now when the Android team has more political sway and we announce “Android Home”, a new unified home automation platform to bring all your devices together in one easy to use system, which will allow you to turn your lights off by simply blinking into one of the many Google cameras mounted in your home.
This will be followed in 2022 with the new “Chrome@Home” platform, which will revolutionize home automation by letting you send and receive Morse code messagess with your neighbors via innovative light-turning-off-and-on technology.
Finally, in 2025 we will announce the revolutionary “GoogleOne” home automation system which will allow you to set minimum reading-light thresholds for your teenage children who insist on reading in too-dark rooms simply by yelling “how can you even read in this room?? You’ll go blind if you don’t turn on a light!!” while standing in the appropriate room of your home.
[+] [-] ravenstine|6 years ago|reply
I really wonder whether, if someone with any clout at Google read your comment, they would get the joke or not understand.
[+] [-] jdavis703|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panpanna|6 years ago|reply
If anything, some of these products will overlap in time causing great confusion.
[+] [-] jasonhansel|6 years ago|reply
25% Google Chrome for Android
25% Google Android for Chrome
50% Android Legacy Edition (deprecated)
[+] [-] craftinator|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chris_wot|6 years ago|reply