This isn't surprising. What the US government wants the government gets. I was working for a large ISP in 2010-2011 and we were considering long haul transport gear between Huawei and Infinera. All things being equal Huawei had a better cost/performance value prop. That was, until the FBI came in with a heavy handed opinion. You see at that point in time the best place to siphon data was at large ingress/egress. As I understand it there are two reasons the FBI wanted Infinera: 1) Infinera is a US based company and had to abide, like Cisco, to provide "LE" (law enforcement) capable firmware/software and 2) to keep a Chinese firm from generally gaining that position in a large ISP.
So while it's huge Google was told what to do, it's not surprising as this is business as usual. And back to an earlier point... The best place to siphon data in 2019? Your phone. Times have changed, data collection by governments hasn't.
In a way, this helps Apple (and other Android vendors) and in a way, it hurts it. Huawei phones recently have shipped market leading cameras that blow pretty much all other Android and iPhone cameras out of the water. They took a commanding lead as a premium device manufacturer. Hurting their non-China markets gives breathing space to others.
However, if I were Apple, I'd be really worried about retaliation. Apple is wholly dependent on manufacturing in China and its supply chain, and even small disruptions could cause huge mounts of pain.
To all those stating that Huawei should just make their own OS, it's nowhere near that simple. Forking Android is the easy part, building an app ecosystem that thousands of developers across the globe actively partake in is incredibly difficult. Microsoft couldn't even pull it off with Windows Phone.
I predict their own Android fork and China-focused app store will do fine in China, but struggle big time in other markets.
The difference between Huawei's situation and Microsoft's situation is that Microsoft's app store is not compatible with Android or IOS (obviously, different OS)
While if Huawei uses the Android open source base, the only thing they have to do is entice developers to submit another copy of their app to their store, which is a much lower barrier than the one MS faced to develop a whole new ecosystem
Windows Phone was in a way worse situation. They had to solve an M to N problem, getting apps to attract users while also getting users to attract developers. They tried to leverage their PC install base, but that apparently failed.
The Chinese market on the other hand will always have users, is huge and I presume most developers won't be willing to give up on it. If they do, someone else will serve their customers and might become a future competitor globally.
China-focused apps will only have to re-implement google services. That sound a lot easier to me than supporting an entirely different OS. If those versions can run on google phones as well, devs have the option to drop the play store version down the line to save cost.
I wouldn't bet a lot on it, but this might be the best chance we ever had to get a real play store competitor.
Will Huawei still have access to TSMC, Samsung fabs etc? I think Hardware should be more of an issue for them than software. Chinese phones already use some alternative to play store iirc.
what if all Chinese companies create an appstore? Might have to do it. These things, and I'm not passing judgment on them, are simply pushing the Chinese to be self-sufficient on everything. Stroke of the Trump pen and X chip for your hardware is denied.
That's kinda hilarious coming from an australian. a country in which some companies have said they will no longer trust their employees due to the new law enforcement bills passed.
In addition australia has the same stance as nearly every western country when it comes to Huawei, namely "only we get to spy on our people, so get out"
I'm sure that the EU/australia/the west is breathing a sigh of relief that Trump did this instead of forcing them to make up some more draconian law about foreign device mfg that would have unintended consequences.
Sad to see as they make some compelling phones with outrageously great prices[0]. I used to think about the privacy problems with buying a chinese phone but this day and age where facebook is selling your data to the highest bidder and the fusion centers crawling all over our cellphone - who cares? I'd rather have the chinese have my data than the US companies/gov't(only because I will never visit their country), though they wouldn't be exclusive in this case.
The outrageously great prices comment got me thinking about all the IP theft allegations [0]. I wonder if the relatively lower prices are a reflection of the reduced R&D overhead compared to other companies that would otherwise need to recover that initial investment.
It seems so, though my personal experience with their phones has been hit and miss. The specs look great on the box, but the phones themselves seem to have poor QC and support when things go wrong.
That said, others have only had good experiences. YMMV.
I may have missed this, but have there been any specific accusations against Huawei? It is clear Chinese actors hack and steal IP, but have those been connected to Huawei, or are they just the easiest victim for the US to retaliate against?
I wonder if this will be the catalyst for foreign companies to stop using US technology. For everything that the US has done to other countries over the years, US tech companies have somewhat maintained their independence. Now that US companies are being compelled to not sell to various Chinese companies, it could be a wake-up call to the rest of the world that US companies are now simply another arm of the US government.
I can't see any Chinese phone company feeling comfortable with this move. If someone sets up a viable non-US alternative to Android and the Play Store, they could jump ship en masse.
Google have no choice but to comply with US law. This is now going to make a load of existing US owned (Huawei manufactured) devices less secure unless an exemption is agreed for things like software security updates.
Not only that, the ban encourages a long term move away from US-based tech as alternatives are needed within China. This new tech will ultimately be available worldwide, but no longer owned or controlled by US companies.
As someone from neither China or US, it seems crazy. It’s one thing to ban Huawei from your own markets for security concerns, but by making such a heavy handed ban on working with them, the US government seem to be making the US less secure short term, but also US companies will be less competitive and less influential in the world long term.
Well, OS updates weren't going through the play store anyway, no? And it appears you'll continue to be able to download app updates via the play store "But users of existing Huawei devices who have access to the Google Play Store will still be able to download app updates provided by Google.".
I guess this is a thinly veiled attack on China, but I'm a bit confused why there's a feud between the US and China in the first place. Perhaps my ignorance is down to being British and a bit out of the loop, but could someone give a rough outline on what the underlying motives for this are?
Or they did the same thing every US company will have to do thanks to the blacklist.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huaweitech/chin...
>>The U.S. Commerce Department said on Wednesday it is adding Huawei Technologies Co Ltd and 70 affiliates to its so-called “Entity List” - a move that bans the telecom giant from buying parts and components from U.S. companies without U.S. government approval.
If true, this is certainly a nuclear move. There's a variety of first party app stores in China, though I doubt they'll see much success convincing Western users to switch. Curious if there's going to be antitrust fallout from markets outside the US for unilaterally crippling vendors at behest of US foreign policy. Is Microsoft or Apple going to pull their app stores as well? What happened to project Dragon Fly?
On the other hand, I wonder how Huawei / China will retaliate. Wouldn't be surprised if this kills all Google manufacturing prospects in China which pretty much kills Google hardware.
The biggest threat to Google in my opinion would be the possibility that Huawei and China could try to "steal" Android from them.
Imagine in 2021 the Chinese government mandates that every Chinese smartphone manufacturer needs to switch to ChAndroid for all of their product lines, with a single unified app store, whether they sell the phones inside or outside of China. Well, fully half of the top smartphone companies in the world are Chinese. So all of a sudden Google would lose the ability to monetize on almost half of the ecosystem.
And if it were open and successful, other Android manufacturers could move over. Samsung would LOVE the ability to get a piece of the search and app revenue on every one of their phones. Right now they're locked out because of Google's licensing agreement for Android, but they must look at how much money Google pays Apple every year to be the default search provider very longingly.
The internet, at least as we knew it, is dead. What we have now is a highly segemented, highly federated, highly monitored, centralized communication network. The walls and the controls around access are getting more intricate every day, we've long ago left the idea of an open network in the trash can.
It sure seems like the future is more and more walls, more and more reactionary defensive measures. Nobody seems to have any inclination to resist this trend.
Otherwise, the article is good for showing the extent of the political situation.
One might be able to stretch this to 'US aids potential cyber attacks in China' since phones in China might no longer receive security updates in Android.
This is reason why verticaly integrated monopolies are bad.That is reason i use F—droid and everyone should support open source(completely open sourced programs).
[+] [-] windexh8er|6 years ago|reply
So while it's huge Google was told what to do, it's not surprising as this is business as usual. And back to an earlier point... The best place to siphon data in 2019? Your phone. Times have changed, data collection by governments hasn't.
[+] [-] cromwellian|6 years ago|reply
However, if I were Apple, I'd be really worried about retaliation. Apple is wholly dependent on manufacturing in China and its supply chain, and even small disruptions could cause huge mounts of pain.
[+] [-] ghobs91|6 years ago|reply
I predict their own Android fork and China-focused app store will do fine in China, but struggle big time in other markets.
[+] [-] yskchu|6 years ago|reply
While if Huawei uses the Android open source base, the only thing they have to do is entice developers to submit another copy of their app to their store, which is a much lower barrier than the one MS faced to develop a whole new ecosystem
[+] [-] Faark|6 years ago|reply
The Chinese market on the other hand will always have users, is huge and I presume most developers won't be willing to give up on it. If they do, someone else will serve their customers and might become a future competitor globally.
China-focused apps will only have to re-implement google services. That sound a lot easier to me than supporting an entirely different OS. If those versions can run on google phones as well, devs have the option to drop the play store version down the line to save cost.
I wouldn't bet a lot on it, but this might be the best chance we ever had to get a real play store competitor.
[+] [-] walrus01|6 years ago|reply
https://technode.com/2018/08/13/android-china-q2-2018/
[+] [-] mayama|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seppin|6 years ago|reply
Why would they need it to be popular anywhere other than China?
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gameswithgo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onetimemanytime|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xparco|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ahmedfromtunis|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wallmountedtv|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sremani|6 years ago|reply
Here is a helpful read, http://zeihan.com/my-way-or-the-huawei/
[+] [-] iamnothere|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] techntoke|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timkly|6 years ago|reply
Google Android in no longer a universal platform and moving forward, I doubt I'll ever buy anything again Google or US related again in terms of tech.
This si no longer a China vs US issue, it's the US vs the world.
[+] [-] PixyMisa|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JauntyHatAngle|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vxNsr|6 years ago|reply
In addition australia has the same stance as nearly every western country when it comes to Huawei, namely "only we get to spy on our people, so get out"
I'm sure that the EU/australia/the west is breathing a sigh of relief that Trump did this instead of forcing them to make up some more draconian law about foreign device mfg that would have unintended consequences.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] wpdev_63|6 years ago|reply
[0]:https://www.banggood.com/Xiaomi-Mi-Play-Global-Version-5_84-...
[+] [-] cyrix100|6 years ago|reply
[0]:https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-theft-bonus-program-...
[+] [-] nAwYz|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kuyan|6 years ago|reply
That said, others have only had good experiences. YMMV.
[+] [-] andr|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mikeb85|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ETHisso2017|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plantain|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StringyBob|6 years ago|reply
Not only that, the ban encourages a long term move away from US-based tech as alternatives are needed within China. This new tech will ultimately be available worldwide, but no longer owned or controlled by US companies.
As someone from neither China or US, it seems crazy. It’s one thing to ban Huawei from your own markets for security concerns, but by making such a heavy handed ban on working with them, the US government seem to be making the US less secure short term, but also US companies will be less competitive and less influential in the world long term.
[+] [-] yding|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philwelch|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anarazel|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onei|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neilv|6 years ago|reply
Could this nudge an interesting (good/bad) development in open source?
[+] [-] esolyt|6 years ago|reply
"Suspends some business" is an understatement.
[+] [-] enriquto|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onetimemanytime|6 years ago|reply
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huaweitech/chin... >>The U.S. Commerce Department said on Wednesday it is adding Huawei Technologies Co Ltd and 70 affiliates to its so-called “Entity List” - a move that bans the telecom giant from buying parts and components from U.S. companies without U.S. government approval.
[+] [-] cfarm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rorykoehler|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dirtyid|6 years ago|reply
On the other hand, I wonder how Huawei / China will retaliate. Wouldn't be surprised if this kills all Google manufacturing prospects in China which pretty much kills Google hardware.
[+] [-] yding|6 years ago|reply
Imagine in 2021 the Chinese government mandates that every Chinese smartphone manufacturer needs to switch to ChAndroid for all of their product lines, with a single unified app store, whether they sell the phones inside or outside of China. Well, fully half of the top smartphone companies in the world are Chinese. So all of a sudden Google would lose the ability to monetize on almost half of the ecosystem.
And if it were open and successful, other Android manufacturers could move over. Samsung would LOVE the ability to get a piece of the search and app revenue on every one of their phones. Right now they're locked out because of Google's licensing agreement for Android, but they must look at how much money Google pays Apple every year to be the default search provider very longingly.
[+] [-] oldjokes|6 years ago|reply
It sure seems like the future is more and more walls, more and more reactionary defensive measures. Nobody seems to have any inclination to resist this trend.
[+] [-] mrosett|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] judge2020|6 years ago|reply
One might be able to stretch this to 'US aids potential cyber attacks in China' since phones in China might no longer receive security updates in Android.
[+] [-] the8472|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexkavon|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lukaa|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eitland|6 years ago|reply
It has always annoyed me but I guess events like this proves why they've chosen to do it.