So how long will it take until Asian Phone companies using Android get together to develop an alternative Android ecosystem? They could set it up in a neutral nation with profits going to all companies. So far, these always failed because it was only one company involved (e.g. Amazons app store) but will all major manufacturers involved, it would be much more profitable for developers to be on that app store than on Google's (they could be compatible at the start anyway).
In the end, the one loser from this action is more likely Google than Huawei. And I believe they know that very well but had no alternative but to act this way.
Most Chinese versions of Android are completely de-Googled[1]- no Play store, no Maps, no GMail, etc. They have their own app store, web browser, and everything else. They are still based on Android, but it's not a stretch to think that most Chinese phone manufacturers could fork the open source project tomorrow.
As soon as Google goes too far against the Chinese government, the manufacturers will receive a notice that Android is no longer welcome as an operating system and they will flip the switch. Most Chinese citizens wouldn't care or even notice.
Other Asian companies are working on alternative OSes in case Google ever "pulls a Google" and kills off Android. Samsung has Tizen, which sucks, but could be better with some work.
[1] I bought a Xiaomi phone with a Chinese ROM and it took three days to get unlock permissions from Xiaomi to put the Global ROM on it that had Google apps. In that time I didn't feel like I was missing anything huge- except for being able to get directions since the maps app didn't have US street maps.
I am not sure why Asian Phone companies would do anything. As far as we see, only Chinese companies might want to. Asia is big and includes a lot more countries than China. Other asian countries are in the same bucket as Europe in moving to custom ecosystem.
I could go one step further: Build another open source OS that can run Android app but not Android. Many Chinese companies already tried it (non-open source though) before but been persuaded not to, I guess they're feeling a little bit different now.
The good part is, by building that OS, the domestic tech communities could receive a huge boost.
So far for Huawei, Google's blockage is partly useless. As long as Huawei can sell device globally, they can just build their devices in such way that allowing their users to load custom ROM into it without effect warranty, then their users can just use LineageOS (Huawei's Android UI is a crap anyway) or a Linux distro etc. (Maybe the first hackable phone from a major manufacturer)
BTW: In China, not a single one domestic phone manufacturer I know of ships Google service with their phone. So Google service is largely an non-existence.
Don't club Huawei with Asia. Google, outside China, is a major force to reckon from a consumer standpoint - without Gmail, Play App, YouTube, Android Auto etc., who do you think people will buy these phones. It is easier for Samsung and LG to just sell Android branded phones given it has Google products vs. for Huawei to sell its proprietary OS branded phone without Google.
Why would Samsung want to team up with Huawei on this? Huawei is a major competitor to Samsung; having Google services available on Samsumg phones and not on Huawei ones is a major competitive win for Samsumg. They must be laughing all the way to the bank right now.
They already have. This only affects the "International Firmware" editions of Huawei phones/tablets. The Chinese editions of these devices are unaffected because those already use AOSP.
I tried the Samsung app store briefly on my Android. I didn't last long with it, it was not that great, and reluctantly intstalled Google Play. It's yet another company trying to usher me into signing up, and trading my data privacy. The themes app for example, wants access to my contacts. Why?
I hadn’t thought about it that way but makes total sense. A new OS that all factories would install on their - now Android - phones, would cause a big blow to Google. We’e already seen ecosystems like Wechat and their impact. That move seems imminent
They don't seem to be doing a very good job of communicating whether this is voluntary or mandated by the trade sanctions. It would seem to be terribly damaging to Google and Android if they can't convince OEMs that this is something extraordinary that no other OEM will need to worry about.
> It would seem to be terribly damaging to Google and Android if they can't convince OEMs that this is something extraordinary that no other OEM will need to worry about.
what makes you believe that this is something extraordinary? why other Chinese manufacturers like Xiaomi or OPPO don't need to worry about such move?
Android has cryptography in it for app signing and secure logins and such. Crypto is a real sensitive subject for export, even fairly standard implementations like what Android has. I'll bet that once the question is raised with government officials they will say that Google licensing crypto to (or just trusting certs from) Huawei is a hard no.
It would be real hard to make the Play store useful if you take away its main feature of getting trusted versions of apps. Ditto for most of Google's other products in Android.
Edit: For those of you who disagree with me, check out what happens now that Huawei is on the entity list (https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/policy-guidance/lists-of-p...). Most notable is that they are now subject to "license requirements are independent of, and in addition to, license requirements imposed elsewhere in the EAR." Even if Android is deemed no license required (NLR) to every other person in the world, the US government can still prohibit Google from licensing Android to Huawei. If you don't think that the government would use a petty excuse such as [easily available] crypto to deny the license, then you obviously haven't dealt with the government enough. The US government was treating crypto the same as nuclear technology up until the year 2000, and they would still prefer if US companies didn't give out source code on the internet. This isn't a bunch of forward thinking Silicon Valley types making the judgement call, it's a bunch of bureaucrats in suits that don't understand how the internet works.
First Google time-bombs their Nest-devices, and now they’ve created precedent for time-bombing huge swaths of Android-devices too.
All in less than a week. You’d be crazy to invest deeply into anything Google at this point.
Edit: This clearly shows the weakness with the android software update delivery mechanism and architecture.
If you install windows on a Chinese laptop, there is no way Microsoft is going to block updates for your laptop in any way in the future.
However if you buy a Chinese android phone, there is no generic update pushed to everyone equally, but there has to be a specific update tailored for your device. And everyone (Google, vendor, telecom service providers) can block those updates from reaching you.
If Google wants Android to remain a viable platform in the future, they’ll need to fix that.
Make all devices use UEFI for ARM and boot genetic OS images made equally for everyone. Or anything else. Whatever works.
I don’t care how, they just need to fix this mess.
Edit 2: I was about to replace my iPhone SE with a Samsung Galaxy S10e (3.5mm jack, wireless charging). I'm now reconsidering and might just end up with a new iPhone instead.
I don’t support the decision to ban android for Huawei but ... how many companies in China been kicked from their market including Google , Facebook etc . Most of Chinese still saying that was right decision, so what’s wrong with kicking out one company due to espionage. No issues with let’s say one plus which is more popular in US and still Chinese.
>how many companies in China been kicked from their market including Google
For the record, Google voluntarily withdrew from China as a form of moral protest (it didn't want to help the government censor/spy on its citizens). It wasn't just banned as a means of protecting local companies, since Bing isn't banned, nor for that matter is Azure or Outlook/Hotmail.
Regardless of this being mandated or not, they are sacking the best Android flagship representative thus leaving the market open to others.
Huawei is huge outside US and their latest phones are a better purchase than Samsung, more performant but most importantly they age slower which is a critical thing for an Android device.
This has been mandated by a US government decree. The US president has declared a "National Emergency" which gives him this kind of power. They have placed Huawei and 70 linked partners on a trade blacklist saying Huawei is a danger to national security.
So it is now effectively an offense for US companies to trade with Huawei directly or indirectly.
This is ominous for Apple as well, being the poster child of American industry.
China could retaliate by disrupting Apple's supply chain, but I don't think it will happen as it would put a huge question mark over China as a component supplier for every single industry.
It's not ominous at all. China can't retaliate in that manner if they want Huawei to remain a functioning business.
The US controls nearly all aspects of the global technology industry. It can rather smash Huawei any time it chooses to, ZTE style, by entirely revoking Huawei's access to critical components (and a lot of markets).
Without China, Apple remains the most profitable company on earth and can safely, entirely abandon China. Taiwan I'll note is not China.
Huawei on the other hand can't survive as is without US technology. They'd lose at least 3/4 of their business and most likely end up in bankruptcy.
Apple moving its supply chain out of China (and back to the US) is exactly what Trump wants. If only for political reasons and self-interest, there's just no way China would retaliate how you suggest.
I don't know how is it in US, but in Europe recently Huawei is very successful and growing. All big smartphone stores have now special tables with Huawei show-cases, lots of TV Ads.
Recently bought a cheap Huawei P5. After having owned phones from Nokia, Sony, LG, Apple, Microsoft and Google, the Huawei beats them hands down, no question.
I was about to say - in Poland Huawei is absolutely huge, I see a lot of people using their devices and having far more prominent stands in electronic shops than Samsung for instance.
As a consumer, I'm almost at the stage now when buying a phone or any consumer tech - that I feel that I should be printing out a list of features the phone offers and getting the sales chap to sign them, so if any are changed/removed down the line (like software updates stop prematurely) - I'd have an easier legal redress to obtain a refund under being mis-sold.
Without Google, users will just shift over to Android. Agreed Huawei's phones are good but are they as good for users to not care about GMail, YouTube, Play Store etc.? On top of that, will users trust an OS by a Chinese company?
The P30 Huawei phones currently sitting on shelves should have all the major Google apps installed already, including the Play Store, and thus should fall into the "Existing Huawei Devices" category. I know this because I bought and returned two P30s (both defective) and settled on getting a P30 Pro.
I don't know what this means for phones that haven't been manufactured yet and whether Huawei will pre-load them with the G Apps.
The big question now is for how long "Google Play and the security protections from Google Play Protect will continue to function on existing Huawei devices." We'll probably find out more during the week.
Phones like the P30 Pro come in various versions : Europe (VOG-L29), International (VOG-L04),... and China (VOG-LT00). From what I've read on some forums the one for China don't have any Google services (+ no SafetyNet).
And this is the danger of having so much power concentrated in a single country.
Google might not want to do this, but they might need to, because they are a US company.
Unfortunately this affects everyone. Why should Europeans care about US’s trade wars?
And don’t get me wrong, I would never buy Huawei devices because they are made by a company owned by a communist party, but that’s my choice to make, not that of some random US government that will be remembered as one of the worst ones yet.
The fundamental issues surrounding China 2025 which has prompted
a shift in trade posture between the United States and China affect
every other developed manufacturing nation in the world. Including
Germany and the rest of the EU Nations.
Just because the EU has not gotten publicly involved does not mean that
they are not involved privatively in negotiations. Europe along with Japan,
Korea etc have the luxury to stay quiet because the US is taking
a very public and direct strategy.
The US is the only Nation that can take that very public role.
The Play Store and current Play Services, on the existing devices, sure.
Anything else, including OS security updates (the security they talk about is Play Protect, not updates), or new major versions of Android (Q) for existing devices, or other services that need hardware integration (wallet/pay?) is probably out of the question.
It's nice to know my Nexus 6p will continue to function, then. I dug it out of a drawer a month ago and it updated. It can no longer see my WiFi. It can see my neighbours' WiFi no problem, just not mine. Looking on the bright side, I guess that means I don't need to worry about the Huawei baseband.
Of course "Play store will continue to work". To use the Sex Pistols lyrics: God save the queen, 'Cause tourists are money, And our figurehead, Is not what she seems.
Huawai may be 'evil' (or any other justification) but the money of the millions of Huawei phone owners are more than welcome.
System update is a money-losing function. You get people to work and collaborate with vendors, but this doesn't add to the bottom line what Google Play Store adds.
This is really an appalling decision by the US government that brings us back to the darkest days of colonialism and Western exploitation: Gunboat diplomacy in full swing.
China is lucky to be too big to be actually bombed these days...
I think this will prove extremely significant because all the recent history of China (last 150 years) has been about freeing themselves from that.
In the short term this decision will likely harm China but it will also make them double down on developing their own tech and thus may end up hurting US companies in the long term: When China doesn't need Google, Intel, etc. then what leverage will the US have for blackmail? None.
[+] [-] dx034|6 years ago|reply
In the end, the one loser from this action is more likely Google than Huawei. And I believe they know that very well but had no alternative but to act this way.
[+] [-] throw20102010|6 years ago|reply
As soon as Google goes too far against the Chinese government, the manufacturers will receive a notice that Android is no longer welcome as an operating system and they will flip the switch. Most Chinese citizens wouldn't care or even notice.
Other Asian companies are working on alternative OSes in case Google ever "pulls a Google" and kills off Android. Samsung has Tizen, which sucks, but could be better with some work.
[1] I bought a Xiaomi phone with a Chinese ROM and it took three days to get unlock permissions from Xiaomi to put the Global ROM on it that had Google apps. In that time I didn't feel like I was missing anything huge- except for being able to get directions since the maps app didn't have US street maps.
[+] [-] enitihas|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rqs|6 years ago|reply
The good part is, by building that OS, the domestic tech communities could receive a huge boost.
So far for Huawei, Google's blockage is partly useless. As long as Huawei can sell device globally, they can just build their devices in such way that allowing their users to load custom ROM into it without effect warranty, then their users can just use LineageOS (Huawei's Android UI is a crap anyway) or a Linux distro etc. (Maybe the first hackable phone from a major manufacturer)
BTW: In China, not a single one domestic phone manufacturer I know of ships Google service with their phone. So Google service is largely an non-existence.
[+] [-] product50|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] muzani|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mhandley|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nbevans|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mongol|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] downtide|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krm01|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zmmmmm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panpanna|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dis-sys|6 years ago|reply
what makes you believe that this is something extraordinary? why other Chinese manufacturers like Xiaomi or OPPO don't need to worry about such move?
[+] [-] throw20102010|6 years ago|reply
It would be real hard to make the Play store useful if you take away its main feature of getting trusted versions of apps. Ditto for most of Google's other products in Android.
Edit: For those of you who disagree with me, check out what happens now that Huawei is on the entity list (https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/policy-guidance/lists-of-p...). Most notable is that they are now subject to "license requirements are independent of, and in addition to, license requirements imposed elsewhere in the EAR." Even if Android is deemed no license required (NLR) to every other person in the world, the US government can still prohibit Google from licensing Android to Huawei. If you don't think that the government would use a petty excuse such as [easily available] crypto to deny the license, then you obviously haven't dealt with the government enough. The US government was treating crypto the same as nuclear technology up until the year 2000, and they would still prefer if US companies didn't give out source code on the internet. This isn't a bunch of forward thinking Silicon Valley types making the judgement call, it's a bunch of bureaucrats in suits that don't understand how the internet works.
[+] [-] josteink|6 years ago|reply
All in less than a week. You’d be crazy to invest deeply into anything Google at this point.
Edit: This clearly shows the weakness with the android software update delivery mechanism and architecture.
If you install windows on a Chinese laptop, there is no way Microsoft is going to block updates for your laptop in any way in the future.
However if you buy a Chinese android phone, there is no generic update pushed to everyone equally, but there has to be a specific update tailored for your device. And everyone (Google, vendor, telecom service providers) can block those updates from reaching you.
If Google wants Android to remain a viable platform in the future, they’ll need to fix that.
Make all devices use UEFI for ARM and boot genetic OS images made equally for everyone. Or anything else. Whatever works.
I don’t care how, they just need to fix this mess.
Edit 2: I was about to replace my iPhone SE with a Samsung Galaxy S10e (3.5mm jack, wireless charging). I'm now reconsidering and might just end up with a new iPhone instead.
[+] [-] v7p1Qbt1im|6 years ago|reply
Edit: Quite possibly Windows will not receive updates on Huawei laptops anymore.
[+] [-] maxdo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] logicchains|6 years ago|reply
For the record, Google voluntarily withdrew from China as a form of moral protest (it didn't want to help the government censor/spy on its citizens). It wasn't just banned as a means of protecting local companies, since Bing isn't banned, nor for that matter is Azure or Outlook/Hotmail.
[+] [-] gcatalfamo|6 years ago|reply
Regardless of this being mandated or not, they are sacking the best Android flagship representative thus leaving the market open to others.
Huawei is huge outside US and their latest phones are a better purchase than Samsung, more performant but most importantly they age slower which is a critical thing for an Android device.
[+] [-] dagaci|6 years ago|reply
So it is now effectively an offense for US companies to trade with Huawei directly or indirectly.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3010403/us-commerce-...
I hope it leads to competition, but i doubt that will happen any time soon.
[+] [-] fauigerzigerk|6 years ago|reply
China could retaliate by disrupting Apple's supply chain, but I don't think it will happen as it would put a huge question mark over China as a component supplier for every single industry.
[+] [-] praveenweb|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adventured|6 years ago|reply
The US controls nearly all aspects of the global technology industry. It can rather smash Huawei any time it chooses to, ZTE style, by entirely revoking Huawei's access to critical components (and a lot of markets).
Without China, Apple remains the most profitable company on earth and can safely, entirely abandon China. Taiwan I'll note is not China.
Huawei on the other hand can't survive as is without US technology. They'd lose at least 3/4 of their business and most likely end up in bankruptcy.
[+] [-] ddebernardy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] novaRom|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PeterStuer|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gambiting|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zenst|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] product50|6 years ago|reply
Without Google, users will just shift over to Android. Agreed Huawei's phones are good but are they as good for users to not care about GMail, YouTube, Play Store etc.? On top of that, will users trust an OS by a Chinese company?
[+] [-] gonvaled|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Magi604|6 years ago|reply
I don't know what this means for phones that haven't been manufactured yet and whether Huawei will pre-load them with the G Apps.
The big question now is for how long "Google Play and the security protections from Google Play Protect will continue to function on existing Huawei devices." We'll probably find out more during the week.
[+] [-] FrankSansC|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bad_user|6 years ago|reply
Google might not want to do this, but they might need to, because they are a US company.
Unfortunately this affects everyone. Why should Europeans care about US’s trade wars?
And don’t get me wrong, I would never buy Huawei devices because they are made by a company owned by a communist party, but that’s my choice to make, not that of some random US government that will be remembered as one of the worst ones yet.
[+] [-] duxup|6 years ago|reply
Any country can influence the local company and if you do business with the company then there you go.
[+] [-] mandelken|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] generic_user|6 years ago|reply
Just because the EU has not gotten publicly involved does not mean that they are not involved privatively in negotiations. Europe along with Japan, Korea etc have the luxury to stay quiet because the US is taking a very public and direct strategy.
The US is the only Nation that can take that very public role.
[+] [-] jbk|6 years ago|reply
Anything else, including OS security updates (the security they talk about is Play Protect, not updates), or new major versions of Android (Q) for existing devices, or other services that need hardware integration (wallet/pay?) is probably out of the question.
[+] [-] codedokode|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zuron7|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rando444|6 years ago|reply
If you don't want to use google play, you can download the APK from any number of apk mirror sites and install the app yourself manually.
[+] [-] edoloughlin|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skc|6 years ago|reply
Looks like I dodged a bullet, for now at least.
[+] [-] HenryBemis|6 years ago|reply
Of course "Play store will continue to work". To use the Sex Pistols lyrics: God save the queen, 'Cause tourists are money, And our figurehead, Is not what she seems.
Huawai may be 'evil' (or any other justification) but the money of the millions of Huawei phone owners are more than welcome.
System update is a money-losing function. You get people to work and collaborate with vendors, but this doesn't add to the bottom line what Google Play Store adds.
Edit: added "the money of" phone owners...
[+] [-] King-Aaron|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jennie478|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cryptonewo|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] NotPaidToPost|6 years ago|reply
China is lucky to be too big to be actually bombed these days...
I think this will prove extremely significant because all the recent history of China (last 150 years) has been about freeing themselves from that.
In the short term this decision will likely harm China but it will also make them double down on developing their own tech and thus may end up hurting US companies in the long term: When China doesn't need Google, Intel, etc. then what leverage will the US have for blackmail? None.
Time is on China's side.
[+] [-] firekvz|6 years ago|reply