Disagree. If anything I think it reinforced nerd stereotypes even worse - all it did was shine a light on a culture that was basically in the shadows. Nerd culture has been perpetuated by a variety of factors:
1. Twitch / livestreaming / YT - e.g. sub counts = "look at how many people actually do like gaming"
2. Affinity groups to video games - e.g. NBA players love Fortnite (among other professional sports...see HyperX commercials with Embiid, Hayward, etc.)
3. Marvel movies - comic book reading is the ultimate nerd fascination. Marvel movies are consistently the most watched movies in the last decade.
4. Commercial success of tech startups - Zuck/Gates are the ultimate nerds who are now the envy of every banker on wall st.
I disagree as well - I think the author is confusing "normalization" with "popularization". Big Bang Theory is for people to laugh at nerdiness, not with it.
Along with the cases that you've listed, I think a clear case of normalization would be Stranger Things and DnD.
Yeah... the Big Bang Theory wouldn't have been greenlit, much less have become a hit, if the stereotypes it presented weren't already known and considered "funny" by mainstream culture.
What normalized nerd culture was the World Wide Web. Everything you mention either started or was catalyzed by the web.
And before the web, even owning a computer at all, much less knowing how to use it, made you a nerd to begin with.
I find this show actively uncomfortable to watch. It doesn't normalize anything, it just mocks it using caricatures and awful stereotypes within the framework of an extremely traditional and lazily written sitcom.
It's a series filled with Steve Urkel-level parodies of nerds. I chuckled at Urkel as a teenaged nerd in the 90s. Especially when they (sometimes) humanized him more it was ok, instead of just having him the butt of every joke. But a series where the main characters are all the butts of the joke and supposed to represent me (according to other people) isn't really that funny.
There was one episode where Sheldon spends a considerable amount of time ranting about Windows 8 with no relevance to the plot at hand, laugh tracks abound. I haven't watched since.
It genuinely made me uncomfortable; not because I like Windows 8, mind you. It was just so uncanny and out of place.
BBT is based on displaying stereotypes and then ridiculing them. As someone who studied CS and now works in IT, I've met quite a few people who actually have to deal with the very issues that this show makes fun of, and let me tell you: being a social outsider is not as much fun in the real world.
I have a hard time imagining how in this day and age the same ridiculing of stereotypes would fly without a giant backlash if the show were about:
- Women
- Homosexuals
- Non-white people
- ...
But apparently, "nerds" are a safe enough as a group that coming up with a skewed portrayal of them that lends itself to making fun of is okay.
Yeah, you go ahead and laugh about those tech freaks... why should the school bullies get all the fun...
You have comedies parodying all those things. While the show did make fun of the nerd things they also gave most of them good qualities and successful lives and they were happy about being nerds.
It seems it is just a sensitive subject for some nerds but look at for example Modern Family. The gay couple and their friends are mocked for tons of gay stereotypes for example.
I'm not homosexual, but have you seen the portrayls of such on the likes of 'next top model', 'queer eye...', and honestly just about any mainstream media now that I think about it.
They're petty much all caricatures of 'offensively eccentric negative-female- characteristics high-pitched limp-wristed men with obsessions for fashion and celebrity culture'.
Its exactly the same thing and pretty standard...if i was less cynical, id think it should of created more of an uproar...
I'm sure I could come up with examples for the other groups...
The funny thing about this post is that BBT is full of misogyny, homophobia, and racism. Like, chock full of it. And yet the most frequent complaint about it is about how mean it is to nerds.
It normalized an easy-to-digest parody of nerd culture, perhaps. Nothing honked me off more than people watching BBT and thinking they understood "people like me".
Surely the same could be said of nearly any network sitcom involving a subculture or demographic. That's kind of the idea of broad entertainment.
The problem comes when the parody comes at the expense of the culture - that's exploitation. But by the time BBT was airing and popular, nerds were, and remain, to a certain extent a privileged class, not an oppressed one. They have high-paying jobs, ordinary successful lives, and look back at the old stereotypes of pocket protectors and social awkwardness with a sort of bemusement. Nerds are not a vulnerable class and haven't been in a long time. Nor is "nerd culture" particularly cohesive.
That may not be the case when the group being parodied is genuinely being oppressed or discriminated against and is often not in a position to push back against that. Exploitation in that case can be real and harmful.
It's always amusing to me that people who pride themselves on emotional intelligence and inclusiveness will ask things like: "is your (nerd) friend we're going to dinner with more Sheldon or Leonard?".
If you press them on this, you then get some flavor of "ok but you know what I mean..."
Yes, there's a big difference between riding the zeitgeist and actually influencing it.
There is something oddly nice about an older person saying "Oh, just like Sheldon!" (or sometimes Moss from the IT Crowd) if I mention dungeons and dragons or online games.
It might be a very simplified and / or exploitative version of nerd culture but at least there's an instant point of reference for us both.
Agreed, but even then, I'd argue that particular parody of nerd culture has already long since been normalized. Maybe all BBT did was broaden it a little bit, but a parody it remained.
It normalized an easy-to-digest parody of nerd culture, perhaps.
Isn’t this true of almost all subcultures that get co-opted? This sort of thing reminds me of IFLScience. No one ever loved science. Certain parts of it just became popular.
TBBT is a show written by non-nerds trying to describe what nerds are, and failing miserably.
I have tried more than once to watch it and every time I felt actual physical discomfort at how bad the whole thing was; Even though the show is not strictly about nerds but rather a parody of SV culture, I find HBO's Silicon Valley to be so much better at describing nerds than TBBT - at the very least I can actually laugh at the jokes and there are slight hints that the writers actually know what they are talking about.
Having lived in LA for 15 years I met and became friends with some writers. I can't speak for the BBT writers but a lot, if not most, of the writers I met were pretty nerdy. Sometimes you need to write what makes your audience laugh rather than what makes you laugh. They earn a paycheck just like the rest of us.
I haven't watched The Big Bang Theory regularly in a long time but I always enjoy it when I catch it in re-runs. A lot of people claim to hate it because it makes fun of "nerd stereotypes". I never found it insulting, though. Exaggerated, sure, but it's a sitcom, it's supposed to be exaggerated. A lot of the fun of the show is the characters "taking the piss out of each other" [1]. Not everyone will like that kind of humor but it's pretty common in sitcoms and a lot of people seem to enjoy it.
It seems to be common for people who dislike BBT to complain that it ridicules nerds as a class. I don't think that's right at all. Does anyone think that "Scrubs"[2] ridiculed doctors and other healthcare professionals as a general class?
Aside from being incredibly unfunny it completely misrepresented nerd culture and that's why it was so popular amongst the largely nerd-free network tv audience.
For a more accurate picture still taken to absurd extremes watch Mike Judge's silicon valley on HBO.
It is not just Sheldon who is extremely sexist in their group. Here are Pop Culture Detective's video essays highlighting misogynistic and toxic-masculine behaviour of all these "nerd" characters:
I tried watching this show once and it wasn't about nerds, it was about what non-nerds think nerds are. The laugh track on top of that drove me crazy. It was unwatchable. I genuinely don't understand how it was so popular.
It's always interesting to me to hear people complain about the "laugh track" in shows like BBT, but then herald Monty Python as if it were some paragon of comedy, considering it also contains a "laugh track." I'm not speaking about your comment in particular; I have heard from many folks that they hated BBT because of the recorded laughter.
It didn't have a laugh track. They used laughter from the live audience. They did edit that to do things like take out people with really weird laughs, and they often used the laughs from a different take than the one that made it into the final edit because no matter how funny a joke was on the first take, it will not seem very funny on the 10th take.
This show made me realize that there are two distinct groups of people with zero middle ground: Those who enjoy or at least don't see anything wrong with it, and those who feel they are represented (poorly) in the show, and intensely dislike it.
The first group usually tends to compare the second group to the show's characters ("he's such a Sheldon") and doesn't see anything wrong with that, either.
So many people complain about the characters...but when I was a student at Caltech pretty much everything that people complain is unrealistic or wrong about nerds on BBT was there in people I knew. It's just more concentrated in the BBT characters whereas it was spread among a dozen or two people that I knew.
What bugs me as a Caltech alum is that Sheldon had an office at one point that had a geology lab directly above on the next floor, which is ridiculous.
They're heavily caricatured. There seems to be the implication that this is just how engineers / nerds are. Sometimes, sure, plenty of those people exist. However, in my experience, it's not that widespread. It's way more common for engineers / nerds to be way more socially adjusted, and well rounded. Making a show where the characters embody the worst stereotypical traits of their subjects causes distortion to the point of becoming unrealistic. In my experience only around 1 in 5 or fewer would even begin to approach these extremes; however if you watched the show you'd expect the numbers to be stacked in the other direction.
I wonder if past generations felt this too -- this feeling that the as you get older, popular culture seems to twist itself to pander to your tastes and attitudes. I had assumed that I had this feeling because I was in the most sought after advertising demographic. Now that I'm into my 50s though, it seems like it's still happening, and perhaps even faster than before.
As we enter 2019, celebrities are rushing to play Dungeons and Dragons, The Big Bang Theory has better ratings than NFL football, Game of Thrones is the top HBO show, and the most popular movie in America is from a comic book. It's a weird world.
Nowadays I'm a bit saddened that my attitudes have shifted to become more close-minded, like my fathers. Adults playing Dungeons and Dragons are somewhat pathetic, comic books are boring kids stuff, and "fantasy" is for people who have dull lives. I don't subscribe to all of that, but remembering how angry I was at my father for belittling the fantasy escapism that I was so wrapped up in, it's odd to find myself agreeing with some of his sentiments.
I guess this thread is one more proof of why there's less and less funny shows coming from the U.S.
Nerds, scientists, engineers or developers can be make fun of like everybody else.
Sure BBT is not really a good show, especially after the first few seasons, sure it jokes about adults reading comics, but they also got hot wifes, go to the ISS and get Nobel prize.
The most damning thing is that people in this very thread praise Silicon Valley. You do realize that, besides being more realistic and better written, the people on this show are also way more ridiculous and despicable than in BBT? But somehow you're less offended, interesting.
I wonder if support people are offended by IT Crowd ahah.
The weirdest thing about sitcoms, to my mind, is how they are always focused in on this group of 4-8 close friends who live in close proximity and spend all their time together. It just doesn't match up with anything I've seen - real people drift around, interact with a bunch of different people, do their own thing. Maybe there are people that live like that, but I just haven't seen it.
I'm hardly offended by the show despite being a nerd. I think it's because I'm Chinese and there are no characters that I strongly associate with. In fact, I can't recall many asian characters on the show. "Fresh Off the Boat" on the other hand...I can see myself being very uncomfortable watching.
I'm confused by this thread. Are people still social outsiders just for being "nerds"? I feel like people are mixing up being socially awkward and being nerdy.
It's much easier to be a social outsider when you're socially awkward. I don't think I've ever seen a nerd who is socially strong be outed from a group just for being nerdy...
This is coming from someone who was nerdy and socially awkward for much of middle and highschool and didn't really have friends. Once I started working on my social abilities (which is not easy, to be fair), making friends was easy.
[+] [-] mbesto|6 years ago|reply
1. Twitch / livestreaming / YT - e.g. sub counts = "look at how many people actually do like gaming"
2. Affinity groups to video games - e.g. NBA players love Fortnite (among other professional sports...see HyperX commercials with Embiid, Hayward, etc.)
3. Marvel movies - comic book reading is the ultimate nerd fascination. Marvel movies are consistently the most watched movies in the last decade.
4. Commercial success of tech startups - Zuck/Gates are the ultimate nerds who are now the envy of every banker on wall st.
[+] [-] z3c0|6 years ago|reply
Along with the cases that you've listed, I think a clear case of normalization would be Stranger Things and DnD.
[+] [-] krapp|6 years ago|reply
What normalized nerd culture was the World Wide Web. Everything you mention either started or was catalyzed by the web.
And before the web, even owning a computer at all, much less knowing how to use it, made you a nerd to begin with.
[+] [-] just_myles|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cm2012|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] friendlybus|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slantyyz|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] YeGoblynQueenne|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] closetohome|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jtsummers|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nostalgk|6 years ago|reply
It genuinely made me uncomfortable; not because I like Windows 8, mind you. It was just so uncanny and out of place.
[+] [-] fhbdukfrh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kleiba|6 years ago|reply
I have a hard time imagining how in this day and age the same ridiculing of stereotypes would fly without a giant backlash if the show were about:
But apparently, "nerds" are a safe enough as a group that coming up with a skewed portrayal of them that lends itself to making fun of is okay.Yeah, you go ahead and laugh about those tech freaks... why should the school bullies get all the fun...
[+] [-] gamache|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cc81|6 years ago|reply
It seems it is just a sensitive subject for some nerds but look at for example Modern Family. The gay couple and their friends are mocked for tons of gay stereotypes for example.
[+] [-] ACow_Adonis|6 years ago|reply
They're petty much all caricatures of 'offensively eccentric negative-female- characteristics high-pitched limp-wristed men with obsessions for fashion and celebrity culture'.
Its exactly the same thing and pretty standard...if i was less cynical, id think it should of created more of an uproar...
I'm sure I could come up with examples for the other groups...
[+] [-] stormbrew|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] knolax|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] falcolas|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devindotcom|6 years ago|reply
The problem comes when the parody comes at the expense of the culture - that's exploitation. But by the time BBT was airing and popular, nerds were, and remain, to a certain extent a privileged class, not an oppressed one. They have high-paying jobs, ordinary successful lives, and look back at the old stereotypes of pocket protectors and social awkwardness with a sort of bemusement. Nerds are not a vulnerable class and haven't been in a long time. Nor is "nerd culture" particularly cohesive.
That may not be the case when the group being parodied is genuinely being oppressed or discriminated against and is often not in a position to push back against that. Exploitation in that case can be real and harmful.
[+] [-] Godel_unicode|6 years ago|reply
If you press them on this, you then get some flavor of "ok but you know what I mean..."
[+] [-] Fishman343|6 years ago|reply
There is something oddly nice about an older person saying "Oh, just like Sheldon!" (or sometimes Moss from the IT Crowd) if I mention dungeons and dragons or online games.
It might be a very simplified and / or exploitative version of nerd culture but at least there's an instant point of reference for us both.
[+] [-] Tehchops|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doctorRetro|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 2muchcoffeeman|6 years ago|reply
Isn’t this true of almost all subcultures that get co-opted? This sort of thing reminds me of IFLScience. No one ever loved science. Certain parts of it just became popular.
[+] [-] devilmoon|6 years ago|reply
I have tried more than once to watch it and every time I felt actual physical discomfort at how bad the whole thing was; Even though the show is not strictly about nerds but rather a parody of SV culture, I find HBO's Silicon Valley to be so much better at describing nerds than TBBT - at the very least I can actually laugh at the jokes and there are slight hints that the writers actually know what they are talking about.
[+] [-] wj|6 years ago|reply
I couldn't watch it due to the laugh track.
[+] [-] curtis|6 years ago|reply
It seems to be common for people who dislike BBT to complain that it ridicules nerds as a class. I don't think that's right at all. Does anyone think that "Scrubs"[2] ridiculed doctors and other healthcare professionals as a general class?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrubs_(TV_series)
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] fhbdukfrh|6 years ago|reply
Aside from being incredibly unfunny it completely misrepresented nerd culture and that's why it was so popular amongst the largely nerd-free network tv audience.
For a more accurate picture still taken to absurd extremes watch Mike Judge's silicon valley on HBO.
[+] [-] anonymfus|6 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7NRONADJ4
[+] [-] jayess|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dpcx|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tzs|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pfarrell|6 years ago|reply
Big Bang Theory is a dumb show about smart people. Arrested Development is a smart show about dumb people.
I've never been able to watch BBT. I could never get past the feeling that I was being laughed at.
[+] [-] lwhsiao|6 years ago|reply
http://i.imgur.com/IT2K6F8.png
[+] [-] verteu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krapp|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elagost|6 years ago|reply
The first group usually tends to compare the second group to the show's characters ("he's such a Sheldon") and doesn't see anything wrong with that, either.
[+] [-] tzs|6 years ago|reply
What bugs me as a Caltech alum is that Sheldon had an office at one point that had a geology lab directly above on the next floor, which is ridiculous.
[+] [-] P_I_Staker|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spudlyo|6 years ago|reply
As we enter 2019, celebrities are rushing to play Dungeons and Dragons, The Big Bang Theory has better ratings than NFL football, Game of Thrones is the top HBO show, and the most popular movie in America is from a comic book. It's a weird world.
Nowadays I'm a bit saddened that my attitudes have shifted to become more close-minded, like my fathers. Adults playing Dungeons and Dragons are somewhat pathetic, comic books are boring kids stuff, and "fantasy" is for people who have dull lives. I don't subscribe to all of that, but remembering how angry I was at my father for belittling the fantasy escapism that I was so wrapped up in, it's odd to find myself agreeing with some of his sentiments.
[+] [-] gnicholas|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] conradfr|6 years ago|reply
Nerds, scientists, engineers or developers can be make fun of like everybody else.
Sure BBT is not really a good show, especially after the first few seasons, sure it jokes about adults reading comics, but they also got hot wifes, go to the ISS and get Nobel prize.
The most damning thing is that people in this very thread praise Silicon Valley. You do realize that, besides being more realistic and better written, the people on this show are also way more ridiculous and despicable than in BBT? But somehow you're less offended, interesting.
I wonder if support people are offended by IT Crowd ahah.
[+] [-] thrower123|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nydel|6 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs (The Adorkable Misogyny of The Big Bang Theory by Pop Culture Detective)
I'm happy for people who can enjoy The Big Bang Theory but I find it difficult personally.
[+] [-] anonanon321|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] conradfr|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saipii|6 years ago|reply
It's much easier to be a social outsider when you're socially awkward. I don't think I've ever seen a nerd who is socially strong be outed from a group just for being nerdy...
This is coming from someone who was nerdy and socially awkward for much of middle and highschool and didn't really have friends. Once I started working on my social abilities (which is not easy, to be fair), making friends was easy.