“If the German government thinks that the Hong Kong judiciary is independent, they would not grant me refugee status,”
I just want to point out that refugee status is given on a case by case basis. Even with an independent judiciary, if your laws oppress some people, refugee status can be obtained. Europe has accepted refugees from USA during McCarty's era.
Accepting a refugee from another nation does have diplomatic meaning but is does not automatically mean that they will dismiss each other judgements automatically.
Assuming Hong Kong is indeed tightening its grip on the people and accepting more influence from Beijing, I wonder if that was a smart move. I mean, Hong Kong is a cash cow for China and an innovation driver. It foots on lots of trade and internationals coming in. Why would you fiddle with that and threaten making Hong Kong less desirable to foreigners?
I think the brain drain from HK to China is much more prevalent than people know these past five years. China have been doing various "assimilation" techniques since the Qin Dynasty. I feel like China has been pretty aggressive with their "wash generation" (direct translation). Bathe the citizens in decent wealth and comfort while increasing the immigration rate from Mainlad China. Look at the new train and bridge to Shen Zhen that's part of the new government intiative to make Shen Zhen the world SV. There's new entrepreneur/startup incubator thats less than a hour travel from HK. This incubator is expected to provide tax break, living and office space, and small stipend to live for any young entrepreneur and HK citizens are qualified to apply. For the better or the worse, it's only a matter of a couple decades where HK today will cease to exist at this rate.
China as a whole has grown massively, making Hong Kong proportionally much less important than it was 20 years ago. That allows Bejing to stop their hands-off approach and "bring them into the fold".
It's not like all decisions in the Chinese government are made by the same person. Asserting control over Hong Kong is likely to hurt business there (especially if it involves restrictions on financial transactions similar to the mainland), but the specific individuals putting themselves into positions of power have a lot to gain from abusing that for their own profit.
Hong Kong these days is nothing more than a clearing house for China A shares. Shanghai is the big hub for International-China business these days and Singapore takes the APAC business.
> Why would you fiddle with that and threaten making Hong Kong less desirable to foreigners?
Because China is not as naturally unified as it likes to make out and having an example of a previously free and democratic state that still wants to agitate for freedom within your borders is intolerable to an authoritarian regime that needs to maintain control everywhere.
China is always tried to tighten its grip, but in a slower pace. For the extradition law they are proposing, it is not a standard move but very controversial among Hong Kong and even internationally. The main reason for China to do that is because China don't have enough dollar reserve.
In trade war between China and US, many food production in China relied on foreign trade. Increasing tax would cause China losing their reserve in higher rate. It is not just about Huawei, but many industry losing jobs, not enough food production for the people. The same or similar may apply to US but the difference is that China is authoritarian. If an authoritarian cannot maintain its economic growth, the government would be collapsed by revolution or a coup. They could even potentially start a war for cover up their fault by blaming foreign countries. For US, it's just a matter of losing an election.
Now what is the solution? There are still many reserve in Hong Kong. Let's start a extradition law in Hong Kong to China to take back some of the dollar from "outlawed" Hong Kong merchant. For the sake of China, Hong Kong could be a pawn for sacrifice.
The extradition law is what any foreigner shall be worried about.
But if you concern about hongkinger, he is one of the start. Not just the usual as they are the new bred of young who think more about hk as home. It is sad they have to run. Sigh.
These activists are fighting against unfathomable odds. Beijing is willing to use conventional and unconventional tactics with ruthless eagerness to win. While most totalitarian state share this mentality, Beijing is an entirely different kettle of fish, They aren’t just a totalitarian state; they're a devious totalitarian state.
There is no better evidence of Beijing’s creativity than the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong. Unlike the mainland, Hong Kong is inhabited by people who are used to being free. The party’s insiders quickly realized that they couldn’t bring the Hong Kong population to heel with shock and awe. Worried about a popular uprising, they forged deals with the triads to maintain control of Hong Kong with a quid pro quo involving Shenzhen and access to the Chinese market;
> Easily, it turns out. Of all of the treacherous aspects of Hong Kong's reunification with China, the most treacherous--and the least noticed--is that it will seal what amounts to a cooperation pact between the triad societies and the Communist Party. This dreadful alliance, of the world's largest criminal underground and the world's last great totalitarian power, has received surprisingly little attention in this country, even though the U.S. Justice Department has identified triad racketeering as a significant global threat. Even more ominously, this alliance is not accidental. It was part of Deng Xiaoping's reunification plan for Hong Kong from the very beginning, and dates from the early 1980s, when China and Britain were negotiating the return of Hong Kong to the mainland in 1997.
> We know this because this past May, Wong Man-fong, the former deputy secretary-general of Xinhua, China's news agency in Hong Kong (which reputedly acts as a de facto embassy), admitted it during a forum at Hong Kong's Baptist University. Wong said that in the early 1980s, at Beijing's behest, he "befriended" Hong Kong's triad bosses and made them an offer they could not refuse: China would turn a blind eye to their illegal activities if they would promise to keep peace after the handover. "I told them that, if they did not disrupt Hong Kong's stability, we would not stop them from making money," Wong said. No one knows why Wong made this astounding disclosure about China's secret dealings with crime bosses, but there is even more to the story than he acknowledged...
The Chinese Communist Party and the triads are still in bed with one another and share the mutual passion of oppressing others;
> On Feb. 26, 2014, Kevin Lau, the former editor in chief of the Ming Pao daily and a vocal critic of Beijing, was stabbed in the back by two men who claimed they each had been paid $100,000 Hong Kong dollars to “teach Lau a lesson.”
> Later that same year, dozens of masked men physically attacked Occupy Central members and pro-democracy activists and tore down their tents. According to Hong Kong police, as many as 200 gang members from two major triad groups had “infiltrated the protest camps, possibly in order to stir up violence that would discredit demonstrators.”
> Although many suspected who was behind the repression — nobody else had the same motivation to act — the attacks were hard to directly trace back to Beijing. But the circumstantial evidence points strongly in the mainland’s direction. Though the former colony was now under Chinese control, the CCP still needed to exercise some restraint in the use of force against elements in Hong Kong it deemed undesirable. Beijing knew full well that unleashing the People’s Liberation Army or riot police would be too direct an intervention into the affairs of a region that, technically, had retained the right to run its own affairs. Direct assault by the state apparatus would have been counterproductive and likely would have alienated a larger number of Hong Kong residents. Pro-Beijing thugs were easily manipulated, had no compunction in using force, and, more importantly, offered plausible deniability.
There are rumors that a large stake in Deng's pet project, Shenzhen, was given over to the triads in exchange for their cooperation in Hong Kong. Between this, Chinese social experiments and the deep tech feel of the city, Shenzhen seems to be something straight out of a Gibson-esque cyberpunk dystopia with a healthy helping of shadowy violence on top.
The odds are against those who fight this power. They deserve and need every bit of help that they can get. Back in the 80s, after the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Hong Kong community worked with the CIA, a few smugglers and gangs and MI6 to smuggle wanted dissidents out of China to freedom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird Maybe we need more of the same?
[+] [-] Iv|6 years ago|reply
I just want to point out that refugee status is given on a case by case basis. Even with an independent judiciary, if your laws oppress some people, refugee status can be obtained. Europe has accepted refugees from USA during McCarty's era.
Accepting a refugee from another nation does have diplomatic meaning but is does not automatically mean that they will dismiss each other judgements automatically.
[+] [-] Tomte|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adminu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] syntaxing|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wongarsu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yorwba|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PlasticTank|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erentz|6 years ago|reply
Because China is not as naturally unified as it likes to make out and having an example of a previously free and democratic state that still wants to agitate for freedom within your borders is intolerable to an authoritarian regime that needs to maintain control everywhere.
[+] [-] 188201|6 years ago|reply
In trade war between China and US, many food production in China relied on foreign trade. Increasing tax would cause China losing their reserve in higher rate. It is not just about Huawei, but many industry losing jobs, not enough food production for the people. The same or similar may apply to US but the difference is that China is authoritarian. If an authoritarian cannot maintain its economic growth, the government would be collapsed by revolution or a coup. They could even potentially start a war for cover up their fault by blaming foreign countries. For US, it's just a matter of losing an election.
Now what is the solution? There are still many reserve in Hong Kong. Let's start a extradition law in Hong Kong to China to take back some of the dollar from "outlawed" Hong Kong merchant. For the sake of China, Hong Kong could be a pawn for sacrifice.
[+] [-] ngcc_hk|6 years ago|reply
But if you concern about hongkinger, he is one of the start. Not just the usual as they are the new bred of young who think more about hk as home. It is sad they have to run. Sigh.
[+] [-] areoform|6 years ago|reply
There is no better evidence of Beijing’s creativity than the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong. Unlike the mainland, Hong Kong is inhabited by people who are used to being free. The party’s insiders quickly realized that they couldn’t bring the Hong Kong population to heel with shock and awe. Worried about a popular uprising, they forged deals with the triads to maintain control of Hong Kong with a quid pro quo involving Shenzhen and access to the Chinese market;
> Easily, it turns out. Of all of the treacherous aspects of Hong Kong's reunification with China, the most treacherous--and the least noticed--is that it will seal what amounts to a cooperation pact between the triad societies and the Communist Party. This dreadful alliance, of the world's largest criminal underground and the world's last great totalitarian power, has received surprisingly little attention in this country, even though the U.S. Justice Department has identified triad racketeering as a significant global threat. Even more ominously, this alliance is not accidental. It was part of Deng Xiaoping's reunification plan for Hong Kong from the very beginning, and dates from the early 1980s, when China and Britain were negotiating the return of Hong Kong to the mainland in 1997.
> We know this because this past May, Wong Man-fong, the former deputy secretary-general of Xinhua, China's news agency in Hong Kong (which reputedly acts as a de facto embassy), admitted it during a forum at Hong Kong's Baptist University. Wong said that in the early 1980s, at Beijing's behest, he "befriended" Hong Kong's triad bosses and made them an offer they could not refuse: China would turn a blind eye to their illegal activities if they would promise to keep peace after the handover. "I told them that, if they did not disrupt Hong Kong's stability, we would not stop them from making money," Wong said. No one knows why Wong made this astounding disclosure about China's secret dealings with crime bosses, but there is even more to the story than he acknowledged...
- https://newrepublic.com/article/90738/partners-in-crime
The Chinese Communist Party and the triads are still in bed with one another and share the mutual passion of oppressing others;
> On Feb. 26, 2014, Kevin Lau, the former editor in chief of the Ming Pao daily and a vocal critic of Beijing, was stabbed in the back by two men who claimed they each had been paid $100,000 Hong Kong dollars to “teach Lau a lesson.”
> Later that same year, dozens of masked men physically attacked Occupy Central members and pro-democracy activists and tore down their tents. According to Hong Kong police, as many as 200 gang members from two major triad groups had “infiltrated the protest camps, possibly in order to stir up violence that would discredit demonstrators.”
> Although many suspected who was behind the repression — nobody else had the same motivation to act — the attacks were hard to directly trace back to Beijing. But the circumstantial evidence points strongly in the mainland’s direction. Though the former colony was now under Chinese control, the CCP still needed to exercise some restraint in the use of force against elements in Hong Kong it deemed undesirable. Beijing knew full well that unleashing the People’s Liberation Army or riot police would be too direct an intervention into the affairs of a region that, technically, had retained the right to run its own affairs. Direct assault by the state apparatus would have been counterproductive and likely would have alienated a larger number of Hong Kong residents. Pro-Beijing thugs were easily manipulated, had no compunction in using force, and, more importantly, offered plausible deniability.
- https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/06/18/nice-democracy-youve-go...
There are rumors that a large stake in Deng's pet project, Shenzhen, was given over to the triads in exchange for their cooperation in Hong Kong. Between this, Chinese social experiments and the deep tech feel of the city, Shenzhen seems to be something straight out of a Gibson-esque cyberpunk dystopia with a healthy helping of shadowy violence on top.
The odds are against those who fight this power. They deserve and need every bit of help that they can get. Back in the 80s, after the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Hong Kong community worked with the CIA, a few smugglers and gangs and MI6 to smuggle wanted dissidents out of China to freedom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird Maybe we need more of the same?
[+] [-] lyrachord|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]