Well, in Rio, I believe life in favela truly is horrible for most of the time. I can think of a few reasons:
- Lack of decent public education
- Lack of decent healthcare
- Lack of basic infrastructure, in a lot of favelas, they don't even legally have electricity
- Jobs are scarce, favela's citizens usually endure long commutes under the very inefficient public transport system to work low-paying jobs
- Rio's favelas are usually located in hills, when it rains, landslides are very common, more often than not they are deadly
- Most favelas are dominated by heavily armed drug dealers (most of their weaponry are semi-auto rifles coming from the USA), law-abiding citizens often see themselves under gunfire between rival gangs or cops
- Citizens are often extorted by drug dealers, or even corrupt cops. They need to pay a "protection tax" in exchange for basic services
Curious that criminals would import semi auto rifles from the US when Brazil has a very large domestic gun maker (Taurus). The Taurus guns should be massively cheaper. Unless you're referring to the full auto weapons flooded into South America by the CIA in the 80's. Those I could believe are cheaper.
I went to Brazil about 15 years ago. My girlfriend signed us up for a favela tour in Rio. We had a private guide. It was going pretty well until the police started a raid. The fireworks went off to let people know the police were coming. I saw one cop who looked terrified and I saw another shooting indiscriminately up a hill with his rifle. At first, I wasn’t worried but everyone around us went behind a truck, so we joined them. After that, the guide was ready to continue but my girlfriend said we were done.
Our Brazilian friend back in the states said we should have never gone in the first place. The favelas are run by the gangs. She grew up in one of them so I assume she knows what she’s talking about.
Favelas are neighborhoods where lots and lots of families live their everyday life.
It has crime just like any other place (e.g. a Phd in UCLA mapped gangs in LA, santa monica and Beverly hills had the most count of gangs and members) but the police treat favelas as their war ground, causing an artificial firepower escalation. And the reason is twofold: by twisting public opinion that favelas only have criminals you can relinquish all forms of state spending (culture, etc) and you can maintain a tight grip on the local political representation during elections, and favelas have lots of votes.
In sum, it has nothing to do with the gangs per-se. It's more artificial public policy.
It's a first-world thing of treating poor people as a zoo that you can just go and watch how the "animals" live.
Do you remember those movies from the 80's where people would park a nice car in a dangerous neighborhood and when they returned the wheels would be gone?
Imagine someone PAYING for a trip to a neighborhood much more dangerous than those from the movies. Like paying for a visit to a nightmarish version of the bad places in Detroit or Baltimore.
As @throwawayr1188, me too, I'm born and raised in Rio, and I'm very surprised to see such article on Hacker News.
No doubt, a favela can be a very dangerous place from an foreign, but I understand the fact that many people are curious to see how it really looks in its innards, despite this danger. My grandfather lived his entire life in a favela called Acari in the North of Rio, and I used to go there visit him. About 50 milles distant from Copacabana, Acari is a shit place with an IDH lower than some poor countries in Africa. But, as described in The Economist article, Acari too has a very active economy. You can find all sort of businesses in there. Of course, I'm not talking about millions of dollars businesses, but there's an interesting cash flow running inside of the favela. However it's not enough to make people rich. The life condition in favela are really horrible. Besides all that has been said here, I have to add on point that hasn't been mentioned: Favela are extremely noisy places... It's pretty common bars playing music incredible loud. Besides that, some favelas organise parties called 'baile funks'. These parties have their pros and cons:
PROS
- people coming from outside (many spend money buying drinks, food, cigarettes, etc)
- it promotes some fun for young people living in the favela
CONS
- These partie are often organised by drug dealers... it attracts some drug adds to the location, and cocaine,
crack, etc run freely
- The music in the 'bailes' uses to be extremely loud. As it doesn't have acoustic protection the entire favela don't sleep during those parties which may go through an entire week-end. It very bad for those who have to wake up to go work.
My advice, do not visit favelas... The vast majority of its population, I'd say more than 99,9% of its habitants are honest people, but this 0,1% and their war with police and other drug dealers represent a real danger for your life.
Is it really that surprising that large favelas have things like supermarkets? Yes, there are drug lords and extreme gun violence and illegal electrical installations, but these slums have been around for decades and are home to hundreds of thousands of people. Many of these people are not interested in a life of crime, but simply don't have the means to live anywhere else, so what else would they do if not slowly build towards a semblance of civilization in the area where they are forced to live?
Yes, it is surprising to see over 3000 illegal businesses in a neighborhood, working under a violent regime.
Is there a point to your comment we’re missing? It’s a lot more interesting to discuss the findings, than your impression of people’s impressions on it.
For example, how much cash flows from these business to traffickers.
Favelas are a mass transit problem. People live there, in bad conditions, because they are somewhat nearer to their jobs. Otherwise, they would spend half a day in their way to work.. Renting a 'house' in a favela is more expensive then renting a good house in small cities.
Rio has one of the best public transportation systems of Brazil. What is a shame really, because yes, it's not that good.
But the urban area goes for dozens of km on every way. Rio is confined between the sea and the hills, there aren't many places to expand into suburbia.
This census is fantastic. There is a ton of work to be done throughout the world in these informal communities/economies. Documentation, data collection, analysis...
Also, just an observation, I noticed a lot of these comments here are tangential to the article.
> why, they don't even get to have a 30 year MORTGAGE!
Interest rates are so God damn high in Brazil you can't really take a mortgage. People save up for their entire lives before buying a home, for the most part. Or you hope to inherit something from your parents, if you're upper middle class. Or alternatively move to a really shitty neighborhood / city so you can afford that (see e.g. Recreio dos Bandeirantes in Rio de Janeiro where all the affluent "Zona Sul" folks have to move to so they can afford a cheaply built apartment)
This has so many myopic statements it’s hard to pick one, so I’m going to randomly choose... ocean bathing...
Recall that Brazil is where the United Nations had to tell swimmers to cover any scratches or open wounds in their body before getting in the water for the olympics, and to shower immediately after. And that was in the nicer area. The water quality in the favelas is even worse.
Can you explain your position here a bit? It seems rather aggressive and somewhat demeaning, although I'm not sure if you intended to come off this way. Do you mean people who haven't been to Brazil literally have no right to discuss this, or do you mean to say they aren't in a position to truly understand the situation?
I've been to Brazil. Stayed in Rio for 5 days. Went to Sugarloaf Mountain and saw Cristo Redentor. Saw a regional "futbol" match, got drunk and danced the night away. Never stepped foot into a favela, closest I got was as I flew into and out of the airport there.
Why do I have a right to speak about Brazilian favelas and a (team of) reporter(s) whose done dozens (or hundreds) of hours of research on the topic does not?
Please don't post flamebait here; also, please don't post unsubstantive comments; also, please don't break the site guidelines by going on about downvotes.
I used to live in Gávea at the base of Rocinha in Rio and although I used to spend most of my time in the city, I used used to go hang out with my buddy Marcos up in Laborieux, the morro de Rocinha, from time to time. Am I allowed an opinion?
[+] [-] throwawayr1188|6 years ago|reply
- Lack of decent public education
- Lack of decent healthcare
- Lack of basic infrastructure, in a lot of favelas, they don't even legally have electricity
- Jobs are scarce, favela's citizens usually endure long commutes under the very inefficient public transport system to work low-paying jobs
- Rio's favelas are usually located in hills, when it rains, landslides are very common, more often than not they are deadly
- Most favelas are dominated by heavily armed drug dealers (most of their weaponry are semi-auto rifles coming from the USA), law-abiding citizens often see themselves under gunfire between rival gangs or cops
- Citizens are often extorted by drug dealers, or even corrupt cops. They need to pay a "protection tax" in exchange for basic services
I could go on and on ...
Source: Born and raised in Rio
[+] [-] scurvy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|6 years ago|reply
Our Brazilian friend back in the states said we should have never gone in the first place. The favelas are run by the gangs. She grew up in one of them so I assume she knows what she’s talking about.
Fortunately for me, it was my girlfriend’s idea.
[+] [-] gcb0|6 years ago|reply
It has crime just like any other place (e.g. a Phd in UCLA mapped gangs in LA, santa monica and Beverly hills had the most count of gangs and members) but the police treat favelas as their war ground, causing an artificial firepower escalation. And the reason is twofold: by twisting public opinion that favelas only have criminals you can relinquish all forms of state spending (culture, etc) and you can maintain a tight grip on the local political representation during elections, and favelas have lots of votes.
In sum, it has nothing to do with the gangs per-se. It's more artificial public policy.
[+] [-] bighi|6 years ago|reply
Do you remember those movies from the 80's where people would park a nice car in a dangerous neighborhood and when they returned the wheels would be gone?
Imagine someone PAYING for a trip to a neighborhood much more dangerous than those from the movies. Like paying for a visit to a nightmarish version of the bad places in Detroit or Baltimore.
It's just dumb, sorry.
[+] [-] koyote|6 years ago|reply
I would be scared to death. Was this not your first time seeing gunfire?
[+] [-] ascavalcante80|6 years ago|reply
No doubt, a favela can be a very dangerous place from an foreign, but I understand the fact that many people are curious to see how it really looks in its innards, despite this danger. My grandfather lived his entire life in a favela called Acari in the North of Rio, and I used to go there visit him. About 50 milles distant from Copacabana, Acari is a shit place with an IDH lower than some poor countries in Africa. But, as described in The Economist article, Acari too has a very active economy. You can find all sort of businesses in there. Of course, I'm not talking about millions of dollars businesses, but there's an interesting cash flow running inside of the favela. However it's not enough to make people rich. The life condition in favela are really horrible. Besides all that has been said here, I have to add on point that hasn't been mentioned: Favela are extremely noisy places... It's pretty common bars playing music incredible loud. Besides that, some favelas organise parties called 'baile funks'. These parties have their pros and cons:
PROS - people coming from outside (many spend money buying drinks, food, cigarettes, etc) - it promotes some fun for young people living in the favela
CONS - These partie are often organised by drug dealers... it attracts some drug adds to the location, and cocaine, crack, etc run freely - The music in the 'bailes' uses to be extremely loud. As it doesn't have acoustic protection the entire favela don't sleep during those parties which may go through an entire week-end. It very bad for those who have to wake up to go work.
My advice, do not visit favelas... The vast majority of its population, I'd say more than 99,9% of its habitants are honest people, but this 0,1% and their war with police and other drug dealers represent a real danger for your life.
[+] [-] lhorie|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ricardobeat|6 years ago|reply
Is there a point to your comment we’re missing? It’s a lot more interesting to discuss the findings, than your impression of people’s impressions on it.
For example, how much cash flows from these business to traffickers.
[+] [-] neonate|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fopen64|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marcosdumay|6 years ago|reply
But the urban area goes for dozens of km on every way. Rio is confined between the sea and the hills, there aren't many places to expand into suburbia.
[+] [-] mocha_nate|6 years ago|reply
Also, just an observation, I noticed a lot of these comments here are tangential to the article.
[+] [-] RappingBoomer|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] airstrike|6 years ago|reply
Interest rates are so God damn high in Brazil you can't really take a mortgage. People save up for their entire lives before buying a home, for the most part. Or you hope to inherit something from your parents, if you're upper middle class. Or alternatively move to a really shitty neighborhood / city so you can afford that (see e.g. Recreio dos Bandeirantes in Rio de Janeiro where all the affluent "Zona Sul" folks have to move to so they can afford a cheaply built apartment)
[+] [-] b_tterc_p|6 years ago|reply
Recall that Brazil is where the United Nations had to tell swimmers to cover any scratches or open wounds in their body before getting in the water for the olympics, and to shower immediately after. And that was in the nicer area. The water quality in the favelas is even worse.
[+] [-] 83457|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|6 years ago|reply
I feel like this word has lost meaning and now is just a placeholder for " I don't like it".
[+] [-] malandrew|6 years ago|reply
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/leaders/2013/...
[+] [-] ryanmccullagh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marzell|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CptFribble|6 years ago|reply
Can someone who's never been to a black hole be allowed to speak about them?
Can someone who's never been to Washington DC speak about US history?
Can someone who's never had cancer speak about it?
Can someone who's never been homeless speak about issues and solutions?
Can someone who hasn't been killed in a favela speak about violent deaths in favelas?
[+] [-] diminoten|6 years ago|reply
Why do I have a right to speak about Brazilian favelas and a (team of) reporter(s) whose done dozens (or hundreds) of hours of research on the topic does not?
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] malandrew|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bighi|6 years ago|reply
Ooohhh, no one can talk about the bad parts of my country, ooooohh.