[eeke]

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created (https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge).

We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're happy proactively refunding customers you could do so without incurring the dispute fee (though TC40s and the MasterCard equivalent can still count towards monitoring programs). Let me know if you're interested ([e-mail]).

This gets you most of what you want. The subtleties:

1) The credit card ecosystem wants to discourage chargebacks as a routine mechanism for canceling, and so there will still be a fee assessed by the networks and hence by us.

2) The credit card networks have thresholds for how many chargebacks a customer can be doing while making responsible use of their rails, and if one routinely exceeds that, they will give a very serious warning to change business practices and, if one’s numbers do not improve, they will terminate one’s access to the rails. We have substantial experience with B2B SaaS businesses and it is _extraordinarily_ unlikely that a B2B SaaS business comes close to those thresholds, even after accounting for unfortunate user behavior.

[jasonkester]

How does that work? When I'm notified of a dispute, the first thing I do is go in and refund the charge. I still have to watch the whole dispute resolution process play out and have it be ruled against me.

How would I go about stopping it before it starts, as you seem to imply is possible?

Edit to add: Does it even make a difference if I go in and refund the disputed payments? It sounds like I get dinged either way and the customer gets their money back either way. Should I save myself the effort?

[eeke]

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. These notifications are commonly called TC40s (Visa) or SAFE reports (MasterCard). On average ~60% of early fraud warnings end up being disputed, and most disputes have an early fraud warning (though there’s a wide range depending on your business). If you refund these charges before they become disputes, you can avoid the dispute entirely. It doesn't solve all dispute problems but it can be pretty effective. I’m happy to take a look at your account to calculate what percent of disputes have an early fraud warning.

[MichaelApproved]

Doesn't sound like they're implying that it's possible.

Sounds like they're allowing you to automate the dispute process but it'll still be a negative mark on your account.

Side note, are you getting anywhere near the number of disputes for this to matter to you? Seems like you have good refund policies and you'd probably be below the threshold for account termination.

[Filippoi]

> We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created (https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge).

Unfortunately, I don't think that's possible.

On Stripe, attempting to refund an actually disputed charge results in an error / invalid request.

https://stripe.com/docs/error-codes#charge-disputed

It does work for inquiries but I am not sure how often those happen vs. "proper" declines/chargebacks. I'd assume the majority is of the latter type.

[kweks]

Refunding a charge back is / can be a bad idea - you can refund, still lose the charge back, and pay for the chargeback. For a $100USD transaction you risk losing 230USD as opposed to 130USD if you refund. It's even written on the dispute page on stripe to avoid refunding charge backs

[gist]

Is it possible to have the extra fee (.4%) only on some transactions or does it have to be applied to the entire account? For example in what we do we have very large transactions where we know the customer very well and we don't need this. But other transactions are typically small but more importantly they are of a different type where the risk of fraud is much higher and the protection is warranted. Just wondering other than getting setup for two different accounts (which may not even be possible) how this situation would be handled. I do understand the idea of wanting the .4% not applied selectively however it would be good if there was a way to specify the transaction class in some way to account for this situation.

[JamesBarney]

I think this request is like going to a $60/month gym and asking to only pay 2$ when for days you go the gym because you only use it 10 times a month. The .4% on good transactions is subsidizing the shitty transactions.

[huac]

adverse selection ;)

[flibble]

> We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s).

Can we get webhooks for these? We currently have to manually refund charges when we get the ‘suspicious transaction’ email from stripe, which is a pain.

[puddingpop]

You can indeed get a webhook for these: https://stripe.com/docs/api/events/types#event_types-radar.e...

(disclaimer: I work on Radar at Stripe)