[troysk]

* Uber/Ola do not own cars, and the owners take out loans to get one. Electric cars can be expensive to be financed for that income group. Uber's endgame is to own self-driving cars and not a normal car, atleast that was the dream :).

* Indian car companies do not have electric cars (a real car can go for atleast 200kms a charge/refill).

* A car factory(even non-electric) would take atleast 5 years to start churning cars.

* Even in that case, it will have to import 40% of the cost ie batteries as India cannot make them. If it starts today, it can in 10 years.

* Import duties of fully assembled, SKD and CKD electric cars is very high makes them uncompetitive to petrol/diesel cars.

* Direct importing is not viable as it requires certification.

* 60% of India's electric supply is coal based.

And to top it;

* Upto 50% of pollution a car will cause is done during production of the car ie before even a kilometre has been driven. Replacing lots of good working cars from the street is not environment friendly.

[ardit33]

Nice analysis.

The point that many people make: "* Upto 50% of pollution a car will cause is done during production of the car ie before even a kilometre has been driven. Replacing lots of good working cars from the street is not environment friendly."

It is not just overall pollution, but where and how it is done that it is important. There is a huge difference between controlled pollution, from a factory away from large cities, and thousands of cars spewing emissions right into the core of urban centers. The second would cause more direct health issues and potentially deaths and overall unpleasantness.

[vkou]

> The point that many people make: "* Upto 50% of pollution a car will cause is done during production of the car ie before even a kilometre has been driven. Replacing lots of good working cars from the street is not environment friendly."

You're completely wrong. This may be the case for a weekend vehicle that is sent to the junkyard before you put 30,000 km on it, but is 100% wrong for a taxi, that drives >300,000 miles over its life.

It takes 6-12 tonnes of CO2e to produce a car. [1]

Taking 35 mpg, every 10,000 miles driven is 285 gallons of gasoline. 1 gallon of gasoline produces ~8.9 kg of CO2e. That's 2.5 tonnes per 10,000 miles driven.

After 50,000 miles driven, the typical car breaks even with its manufacturing emissions.

The average taxi (in NYC) puts on 70,000 miles. Per YEAR. [2] In a single year, it's fuel emissions exceed manufacturing emissions.

If you want good return-on-investment, taxis are the first vehicles we should be regulating. They drive a lot more than the average car.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20...

[2] https://www.quora.com/How-many-miles-does-a-NYC-taxi-do-in-i...

[ShirsenduK]

Semi-rural India should not suffer too!

Please lookup charts of air pollution in the world, there are multiple smaller cities of India which are manufacturing hubs and on the list.

There is nothing called controlled pollution. And even if there is a technical feasibility like Carbon Capture and Storage it is not enforced.

[usrusr]

Overall pollution is a real hard problem. Computer top that, local pollution is more like a temporal inconvenience, it will pass (except for its share in overall pollution)

[avita1]

Do you have a source for that last point?

Even if that number is right, I would think that Uber/Ola cars have higher after-production emissions due to them being driven all day and being driven in city settings (as opposed to on a highway where cars are more efficient.)

[ShirsenduK]

I cannot recall a source as I read it at multiple places and the math made sense. This was the first link that showed up when I googled just now. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/20...

[mtalantikite]

Does anyone have a release from what the directive actually says? I know the article says cars, but did they maybe mean to say fleets? An “auto” in India could mean an auto-rickshaw (tuk tuk), and you certainly can order those through Uber there. It’d be a lot easier to imagine autos going electric.

Also to the parent’s point about self driving cars as part of Uber’s strategy, while totally valid, I really can’t imagine autonomous vehicles working in the places I’ve been in India. I’ve had drivers hit traffic jams and just literally turn around and drive into oncoming traffic for a while. It’s pretty impressive how traffic flows there — I can’t imagine an autonomous car figuring out how to do it.

[nonamechicken]

Delhi based BluSmart taxi services already launched a fleet of electric taxis using Mahindra eVerito: https://youtu.be/AVHHMOxRQ94, https://youtu.be/pWYBDbxlx_c

There are some electric cars already available or ready to launch (videos available in YouTube): Mahindra e2o, Mahindra eVerito, Tata Tigor, Tata Altroz.

These are some of the electric cars arriving in India this year (at least 11 models): Hyundai Kona, MG ezs, WagonR Electric, Tata Altroz, Tata Nexon, Mahindra eKUV100, Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe.

[ShirsenduK]

And the car size, range and pricing competitive? A VC handing out money to a startup will not usher electric taxis. People will need to start buying them because they are better, cheaper and more powerful.

[woodandsteel]

I want to ask you about some things. But first, you say

>* 60% of India's electric supply is coal based.

The long-term plan is that this all be replaced with non-polluting sources of electricity. But I am assuming you already knew that.

Now what I want to ask you is, if electric cars are a bad idea for reducing co2 pollution, what would you recommend? Or is it your position that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax, and we should just stay on fossil fuels?

[ShirsenduK]

When did I say that?

Replacing new and working oil cars with new electric cars in a short timeline is a poor decision which is far off from reality.

[slg]

>Replacing lots of good working cars from the street is not environment friendly.

This is generally the reason why most legislation of this type tries to dictate new car sales rather than actual usage. That route would yield slower results, but it is a more efficient approach.

That said, we also need to keep in mind that these electric cars aren't going to be replacing 5 year old vehicles. The strong secondary market allows those used cars to flow down market to push out much older and lower quality vehicles. Those low quality cars are also likely the worse polluters. Think of the Cash For Clunkers program. That was a failure on many levels, but one of the successes was modernizing some of the vehicles on the road which led to both better fuel economy and safety (although I should note that other aspects of the program had negative environmental impacts that might have made the program a net negative overall).

[troysk]

Ola/Uber cars are mostly new taken on loan in India.

China has shown the way to do the transfer. Super high taxes for registration of a petrol/diesel car and free registration for an electric one. Build cars at home and subsidise its components.

No hand-waving required. Just make it more affordable. Let capitalism finish the job.

[machz]

This comment and your following comment seem to show a reluctance to accept EVs as solution. You haven't considered some major points:

1. "Import duties are high", "Direct import is not viable" - it's the govt we are talking about. They'll HAVE to ease the import to make it work.

2. Vehicles age; and they break down faster on indian roads. Current vehicles will eventually expire and open up space for electrics. no one is going to ask you to smash a new car.

[ShirsenduK]

I mentioned the facts and your observations about my personal opinions are incorrect. I want EVs too but the price conscious Indian market won't buy them at current prices/performance.

1. Even the top courts in India have questioned the government on it but the government has no answer. I am not sure what information you have that you can emphasise that it has to. There is no political/public pressure only a marketing one.

2. Exactly! But enforcing of shorter deadlines by government is not going to help anyone and result in a few outrages by the road by the drivers and forgotten by everyone by the next news cycle.

[gingabriska]

I second this, traveling through India made me aware that power cuts are still a thing in some part of the world.

There is always load shedding going for every day 2 hours in a row.

It's really hard to live there, specially if you own a house then you need to install generators or backup in some other way.

India needs more nuclear power plans.

And Indian government should be promising 24/7 electricity in every town with more than 1lakh population atleast then they can think about "EVs".

Today there isn't enough power for air conditioning which is growing demand as the temepture sours.

[mtrpcic]

> a real car can go for atleast 200kms a charge/refill

Pedantic, but Electric cars _are_ "real cars" as much as gas/diesel cars are.

[ShirsenduK]

A car without a 100 mile range is toy, you are welcome to have your own opinion. Range anxiety is real for a car buyer.

[bvssatish]

Of course, there are electric cars in India, https://www.mahindraelectric.com/vehicles/e2oPlus/

[ShirsenduK]

Please read the complete statement again.

[snambi]

OLA do own their own cars. OLA owned cars do get preference. This is one of the main complaints of drivers who own their own cars.