I’m glad that Apple is finally updating their Macs again, but at the same time Apple has doubled-down on its refusal to sell user-serviceable, upgradeable, and expandable hardware at prices that are within reach for most customers. The laptops have soldered RAM and soldered storage. The Mac Mini and iMac Pro thankfully have DIMMs, but in order to keep the warranty, you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself. After over two years of waiting, the Mac Pro announcement was a huge letdown since the cost of the only user-serviceable Mac has doubled from $2999 to $5999, alienating Mac Pro users who can afford a $2999 computer but not a $5999 one.
It’s one thing for me to buy a “disposable computer” when it is priced very low. It’s another thing for me when you can’t upgrade or service computers with premium-priced parts in them. This is a trend I don’t support.
Unfortunately the only way to protest Apple’s business decisions is to leave the Mac, which means giving up macOS, which I find a more productive environment for me than Windows or any of the Linux desktops like KDE and GNOME. I started using macOS back when Macs were user-serviceable, upgradeable, and reasonably affordable. I continue using the Mac for macOS, but I’m finding myself alienated by Apple's business decisions.
I wish the situation for personal computer operating systems were better. I want PC hardware with an operating system that has the same power, attention to detail, usability, and reliability that macOS has. At this point I am willing to spend my spare time on such a project.
Actually, I'm in the middle of writing an e-mail to the Tim address at Apple, saying that if it takes the environment seriously (and I commend them on what they have done so far) they really need to take the next step, be truly 'courageous' and prioritise repairability and expandability in their forthcoming products.
Apple in the last 20 pushed the boundaries in terms of sleek and slim, but I argue those are last century's imperatives. Apple has the clout and profile, that if it took a stand and said 'we are going to make our products a few milimeters thicker, we are going to make them so that they can be upgraded, we realise that this will hit sales and profits, but this is the planet we are talking about', they could probably pull other members of the industry behind them'. Conspicuous non consumption might be the new fashion statement.
> in order to keep the warranty, you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself
At least in the US (and presumably in the EU which is much better about this sort of stuff) this is not legal. You can upgrade it on your own and Apple still has to honor the warranty.
I feel the same way. Macs have become more expensive and less friendly for upgrading RAM and storage, the two most important things that need to be user upgradeable for longevity and reducing e-waste (I don’t care much about CPU/GPU upgrades).
Even the new Mac mini is quite expensive compared to its predecessors. Mac mini used to be the cheap and beginner level entry into Macs/macOS. The current hardware may be worth the price, but Apple has clearly missed making something that’s a lot more affordable (with cheaper parts, fewer ports, etc.).
The problem is that, statistically, nobody cares about the issues you raise. You can maybe get your problems addressed by a niche retailer, but Apple has bigger fish to fry.
With Apple making the Mac Pro so expensive it opens up the grey market for Hackintosh PCs to run MacOS at a fraction of the cost. If Apple wants to beat the Hackintosh they need an ATX based Mac that doesn't cost $5999 but more like $999 that can be upgraded with a better graphics card and etc.
I so much agree. The price difference to all its predecessors is killing the otherwise brilliant new machine. I actually had set aside about 5 to 6k for a Mac Pro with a screen, but no luck for me. I am currently using a 27" iMac, but I would like to have a desktop class graphics card and the 27" screen is a bit small compared to the 30" available before. My only hope is, that on the footsteps of the Mac Pro, there will be other updates to the Mac line upcoming. And if Apple is actually listening: stop screwing users up with memory and storage pricing. A healthy premium I would happily pay, but not several x factors vs. market prices. At least give users reasonable upgrade abilities.
Having an iMac on my desk also makes it difficult just to add a PC to my setup, as I would need a screen on top of this (and my desk space is scarce), but one day I might do the step - recent Gnome desktops have become very nice, and with Wayland the Linux display stack is getting nicer too.
> you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself
That has not been my experience. The Apple store just refreshed my 2015 Macbook pro: new screen, new bottom case, new fan, etc. Did not charge me anything.
Apple products last much longer than others and are much cheaper to maintain.
> Apple has doubled-down on its refusal to sell user-serviceable, upgradeable, and expandable hardware at prices that are within reach for most customers.
This is like saying Ferrari has doubled down on its refusal to sell a budget hatchback for families.
I think Apple released this Mac Pro & Display at the wrong event. From every indication, it was designed for Hollywood. Developers don't need expansion, but Audio and Video producers do! Announcing at an LA event for producers and artists would have cleared any confusion.
It wasn't designed for AI or ML either, because Apple is having a war with NVidia now, probably over component pricing, but who knows.
Developers didn't ask for this machine or a $6k reference monitor. They just wanted something they can swap out the video cards or memory or hard drives occasionally as time goes on. They wanted a nice display that gave them 200% scaling and proper color correction in a matching aluminum body.
Whether I can afford this machine or not at home is beside the point. It's just that after the keynote high wore off, and we returned to reality, it's clear Apple revealed the machine at the wrong event.
It fit everything I needed: it was thinner than my previous laptop as it had no optical drive, it was lightweight, it had a gorgeous screen, good enough keyboard, and seemed like a reasonable price for a higher end laptop work computer. I've used it everyday since 2012, and aside from the battery which I eventually replaced, it's been functioning without a hitch. From the 90s to the late 2000s, I used a variety of PC laptops and this was the only laptop that survived a huge amount of abuse from travel and daily usage (obviously, YMMV).
I'd love to upgrade to a new MBP, but I truly don't understand what they were thinking with this current iteration. The touchbar feels gimmicky and over the top. Call me old school, but give me physical buttons any day of the week and keep the keyboard simple. Most importantly, give me a keyboard that has more room to press so that random dust getting in there isn't going to screw shit up.
The worrying part is that in order to keep using the good MacBooks from the past, you need to keep them on the OS version that they shipped with.
I have a 2012 MacBook Air that was crazy fast, weighed four grams, and even ran windows 7. Sure, the drive was small, but it was perfect.
But some time in 2015 or so I made the terrible strategic blunder of upgrading to the latest OS version. Performance immediately dropped to zero, and now when I open it up for any reason, I just spend my whole time watching it spin uselessly trying to idle along with one browser tab open. It's sad to see it so reduced.
I've had the same experience with every iPad I've ever owned. Delightful, responsive machines that get auto-updated to brick status over the course of about three years. (I have every model up to air 3, and the only one still working perfectly is the old 1st gen air that I've kept on iOS 8 and spend a minute every day carefully dismissing the auto update prompt).
I have one of the sacred 2015 MacBook Pros, which now can't edit videos using the new format exported from my wife's iPhone x. An OS upgrade would solve that. But the machine is too precious to risk it.
The oled touchpad is ridiculous. I never use it “as intended” and it wrecks my function key muscle memory. My laptop is actually expanding because of the battery. I’d like at least a dock that does decent, active cooling.
As a vi user, I hate the touchbar and its escape "key". I sometimes find myself turning down the brightness instead of getting into command mode which is irritating.
My company is a windows shop and around 2013 we wee looking at Macs to replace Windows. Back then Macs were quite competitively priced compared to Windows machines. But that seems over now.
Once they replace this travesty of a generation of MBP, I’ll agree with this. I’ve been impressed recently with the improvements in software and hardware.
I have a maxed out 2015 MBP and I won’t buy the most generation under any circumstances. I buy laptops with the expectation it will last at least 4 years, and I have no confidence that this generation will last that long. I have full confidence though that the rumored replacement will be amazing, much like the new Mac Pro adessed the past criticisms.
Actually, I think Microsoft's effort is putting much needed pressure on Apple. My wife about a year ago got a Microsoft Surface 6, the tablet with keyboard + trackpad. It was about the same price as a MacBook and with a bundle, the Microsoft Office suite came included. It works well for my wife's use case and she's able to stay with her preferred interface.
Hardware has been trouble free, Windows 10 with One Drive makes it straight forward to change machines, apps run well as a normal user account, and to my knowledge it hasn't been hit with any malware. The screen being capable of touch interface, can actually be cleaned!
In comparison, my last of the "good" MBPr from 2015 has a partially fouled screen because the slightly greasy keys touched the screen. I am so annoyed when the screen is dark but I'm in a well lit room.
I jumped on the Apple bandwagon circa 2007ish, when I bought a Mini. Prior to OS X (and its nix underpinnings) + x86, I paid them no mind, but both of those things put together plus their reputation for solid hardware engineering finally won me over. Shortly after that, I got myself an Air. Before that I bought and used ThinkPads exclusively. I also have the original 15" Retina MBP from 2012, which still runs great.
But I have slowly found myself leaving the Apple ranks over the years, and the 2012 Retina was the last Mac I spent money on. I also ditched iOS (and iPhone along with it) for Android (long story) well before macOS began to take a back seat for me.
In January, I requisitioned a Surface Book 2 from my employer, and it has been fantastic so far. Easily the best laptop keyboard I have ever* used.
If you told 20-years-ago me that I would be buying PCs manufactured by Microsoft and praising them, I would have had you committed. But it has been fascinating watching a hungry Microsoft compete in this space...
My late 2013 MBPr battery finally died recently, and I took it to an Apple store for service. Two days and $199 later I have it back with a new battery (and keyboard, which is attached to the battery) and in like-new condition. It looks and feels like a brand new computer.
Probably worth seeing if having Apple Service can do the same for yours, but via a screen replacement.
1) Pro users wanted a replacement for the Mac Pro of yore. Instead they got something suitable only for high end pro studios, willing to pay $6k starting price for the new Pro (or are in need of a very-cheap-for-what-it-does (even-with-the-stand-included) but still very expensive reference quality monitor).
Where's my $3K-$5K Mac Pro (basically a headless iMac Pro grade machine) for regular videographers, graphic designers, etc, that don't make more than $100K/year and don't work for Nike or Hollywood? We used to have several options from Apple back in the day, now it's either the iMac Pro or, I dunno, the mini. Still no extensibility.
2) Where's a redesigned keyboard as a first priority? Why do they wait for a "new redesign" of the whole laptop? Meanwhile forcing people to keep buying the same broken design, even for the 2019 model? Just release the same current design with a decent 2015 style keyboard and the minimal tweaks needed to make it fit.
3) Where's a pro apple monitor that people who don't need /can't afford a $6K reference beast can buy? Where's the iMac / iMac Pro monitor in standalone form?
I'm wondering why you need so much power in 1 machine for DCC work. Wouldn't it be better to have a relatively cheap model, and when you need to Render, to farm it out to a cluster of computers?
For example, they claim the beefiest model will be 4x the old Mac Pro. But at what cost? $10,000-15,000 for maxed out system? How many cheap PC renderfarm computers can I get for that? How many cloud rendering instances could I rent?
To me, it's like they "listened" and built a Bugatti Veyron instead of a Ford F-350. The people wanting an upgradeable workstation are not looking for a max-out computer off the shelf. They simply want the capability to upgrade it over time or modify it according to their needs. In particular, for rendering 3d workloads, it seems renting cloud computers is far more scalable. If I am time limited, I can easily buy enough power to render 20x faster than this system in a crunch.
I'll believe it when they produce a MacBook Pro that developers love again or a Mac Pro that (not yet independently wealthy) developers can afford again.
I think I might just be done with Apple. That culture of saying nothing and the surprising customers with things is like betting in Vegas. And unfortunately for Apple, the house always wins. They can repair the damage of the Mac Pro debacle with a new Mac Pro, but they haven't owned the train wreck of a keyboard on the Macbook Pro. Sure, they might be ready to hit it big on a double down on black, but in the meantime, my Lenovo keyboard is a delight.
> That culture of saying nothing and the surprising customers with things is like betting in Vegas.
Note that Apple quite publicly said that they had issues with the "trashcan" Mac Pro design and that it would take them a couple of years to resolve them.
Thing is with the keyboard, they've had several opportunities to fix it but it would be very expensive to do so, would require the machine being almost entirely re-engineered because the design hinges so much on that specific keyboard clearance.
It's clear now that they're unwilling redesign their machine ahead of schedule and are happy to ship a below standard and still very expensive device for the 3-4 years spec'd out for this design rather than swallow the cost a redesign would take.
They know Mac users will live with it, what choice do they have?
The article mentions it in passing but they still need to fix the Macbook Pro: the keyboard sucks, it doesn't have enough ports of any kind (and I hate carrying dongles - they eventually always get lost), it's not upgradeable[1], the battery is too weak to sustain heavy workloads for long when running unplugged. They do at least seem to be introducing models with more horsepower.
I'm still "surviving" on a late-2015 15" MBP, which is making me twitchy because I'm down to one machine after my late-2011 17" MBP - which I used as my studio machine (built-in Firewire FTW) - died last week due to the somewhat infamous discrete GPU overheating issue (and Apple will no longer repair it; possibly fair enough after 8 years trouble-free use). I've resorted to buying a heatgun and some thermal paste to try fixing it, and will probably source a spare machine from that era for scavenging parts in future. I'm also considering a used 27" iMac from a similar era for the studio, although it's not so convenient to tote around.
Other options include buying a Windows laptop (probably Lenovo, which seem decent), although I hate Windows so would prefer to avoid it. Linux, although perfectly fine for a lot of what I do (and would I think be fine on many Lenovo models), will only run Ableton Live via Wine, which is not a prospect that fills me with joyful anticipation (ditto, Microsoft Office, I believe).
[1] A lot of people love the 2015 models and, I agree, they're not bad, but the rot had already set it. For me, peak MBP occurred a few years earlier, back in 2011: HDD and memory are both upgradeable, battery is easily replaced, and in fact the modular design of the interior makes it fairly straightforward to pull out and replace or clean most internal components (motherboard, optical drive, fans, etc.). The GPU overheating design flaw is, however, a big fail, so these machines are still far from perfect.
To give people a bit of perspective, the Macintosh IIfx was released in 1990 for US$8,969 which in inflation-adjusted dollars is ~$17,500 today. The PowerMacintosh 8100 released in 1994 for ~$4,250 which in today's prices is ~$7,300. The original 128kb Macintosh would be ~$6,100 in today's dollars. Those are all the bottom-end models. By contrast, a Chevy S-10 pickup truck was about $7,000 in 1990 (if my googling was accurate).
I was ready to upgrade when the touchbar came out, but no, have been holding back for however many years that is. Still stuck on a 2013 MBP. Hoping Apple fixes the MBP soon. What's broken? We all know -- keyboards, needless and costly touchbar, and SSD prices out of step with market prices. Yes I know you can get it without the touchbar, but not with top of the line specs, which I usually go for.
On the new MacPro, we have to consider the target audience.
It's doubtful the machine is a good choice for anything other than an artist doing crazy sound/video stuff. It's simply too much compute power. Of course I'd love to have a 56-thread monster (I always wanted Intel to invest more seriously on Xeon Phi as a homogeneous CPU/GPU replacement because I got tired of the VAX+supercomputer arrangement from the 80's that survives today as the normal clever x86 driving stupid-but-can-lift-heavy-things GPU) but I simply can't justify one for me. When I actually need to do some heavy lifting, there is always Google or AWS to help me with it (and Azure can rent me some really big Cray iron if I really, really need that kind of power). I have a cousin who was into computational chemistry that has mastered programming the classic Cray boxes and even he would probably be very happy with ad-hoc swarms of cloud-based boxes these days.
The main advantage of the Mac Mini is the size, but if you match specs with an iMac Pro or even an iMac, you'll kind of end up with the same price for a machine without a monitor. It's cute, but I wouldn't get one. And the actual desk footprint of an iMac is more or less the same as a Mini with a monitor.
It'd be nice if Apple decided to sell the iMac LCD panels as standalone monitors (because I'd love to have a monitor with the same color responses as my iMac, just so that the background looks the same on all screens - or even the black background of the terminals were all the same shade of black, FFS). Maybe they will, but, again, considering all machines that can run macOS, all practical options in the low-to-mid-to-high-end (MacPros are waaay above that) have pretty nice free screens attached to the machine.
One minor complaint: the stand... Asking $999 for a monitor stand is beyond ridiculous. If it costs that much to make, then just sell the ultra-HDR 8K wundermonitor for $999 more and put the stand in the box. It's not like it's not much cheaper than the reference monitors it goes against. I'd totally get one without a Mac if I had to edit 8K video for money (lots of it). The stand is 2019's version of the "I'm rich" iPhone app.
All in all, we should think of the Pro as the SGI Tezro of our time - exotic, expensive, ugly (it really looks like a cheese grater) and probably more than we need.
You know that's an old popular meme in the Apple community...
"That might work for Marco".
Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million.
But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapaper, and started a podcast that became popular. I'm sure Overcast was helped by his popularity but if it had sucked, no one would have downloaded it. Even for that he tried three different monetization strategies until he landed on one that worked -- writing his own non scummy ad platform. All of this with no outside funding.
And he lucked up and made money by being an early investor in Gimlet Media but that was way later.
But on a personal note. If I needed it, a $5,000 iMac Pro wouldn't break the bank and I'm just a regular old enterprise developer. That's less than two weeks billable work for a halfway competent cheap software contractor.
Heck my college computer was $4000 in 1992. A Mac LCII with 10MB of RAM, a //e card, a 5-1/4 disk drive, a Personal Laserwriter printer and a copy of Soft AT to run Dos compilers and a 12" monitor. Over the next two years I upgraded it with a larger monitor, an external hard drive, and an accelerator card using money I got doing a contract for a college.
Apple took it to the max in terms of what IS possible with the Mac Pro. That's awesome.
I don't see any of the post-houses I work with on a regular basis chomping a the bit for the power they're offering at $6k though. Most have already switched to PC/Windows after Final Cut X and the Mac Pro trashcan came up very very VERY short.
This is definitely aimed at the highest budget niche audience. I'm sure a few very successful independent media people will buy them. I'll be jealous.
I've owned 3 Mac Pros in my life, but this breaks any budget I could possibly lay out for anything I have ever worked on in my entire career.
It is quite plain that Apple never really listens to the user feedback in a traditional way (and rightly so). Their business strategy for Mac hardware and MacOS (specifically, pricing strategy) may not align with what most early and advanced users of Mac want. But this post seems to be sugarcoating it.
Pro & screen is a great machine. I think that because people are talking about it it is already a success. They will sell a lot, because Ferrari sell a lot, Red cameras sell a lot.
They won't sell one to me, because even though I am a successful indie dev I am clearly not the market they seek. The machines they make for me are - Mac mini, iMac Pro and hopefully the upcoming Macbook Pro, because my barely alive, coating missing from the screen, doesn't hold any charge late 2013 Macbook Pro is still far better than the current brand new one.
The iMac 5k and Pros dont get enough love. They look great, are blazingly fast, and the display is ridiculously good. But i suppose the Pro is post-2017.
Half of the keyboard started acting up on my 6 year old Early 2013 15" MBP yesterday. Was waiting for the rumoured 16" rework but had my hand forced to the 2019 15". The touch bar is already winding me up as I'm used to resting my fingers on the edge of the top of the keyboard. It's constantly like: Siri, mute, brightness! siri! siri!
It looked cool on iMessage that I could scroll through smileys but that's about it. Just about ready to completely disable the thing. Not sure how they'll be able to backpedal on it cause replacing it would mean admitting it was a failure.
Perhaps replacing all keys with mini screens to allow total customisation of what's displayed with the ability to still scroll on them?
[+] [-] linguae|6 years ago|reply
It’s one thing for me to buy a “disposable computer” when it is priced very low. It’s another thing for me when you can’t upgrade or service computers with premium-priced parts in them. This is a trend I don’t support.
Unfortunately the only way to protest Apple’s business decisions is to leave the Mac, which means giving up macOS, which I find a more productive environment for me than Windows or any of the Linux desktops like KDE and GNOME. I started using macOS back when Macs were user-serviceable, upgradeable, and reasonably affordable. I continue using the Mac for macOS, but I’m finding myself alienated by Apple's business decisions.
I wish the situation for personal computer operating systems were better. I want PC hardware with an operating system that has the same power, attention to detail, usability, and reliability that macOS has. At this point I am willing to spend my spare time on such a project.
[+] [-] Angostura|6 years ago|reply
Apple in the last 20 pushed the boundaries in terms of sleek and slim, but I argue those are last century's imperatives. Apple has the clout and profile, that if it took a stand and said 'we are going to make our products a few milimeters thicker, we are going to make them so that they can be upgraded, we realise that this will hit sales and profits, but this is the planet we are talking about', they could probably pull other members of the industry behind them'. Conspicuous non consumption might be the new fashion statement.
[+] [-] the_pwner224|6 years ago|reply
At least in the US (and presumably in the EU which is much better about this sort of stuff) this is not legal. You can upgrade it on your own and Apple still has to honor the warranty.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-s...
[+] [-] newscracker|6 years ago|reply
Even the new Mac mini is quite expensive compared to its predecessors. Mac mini used to be the cheap and beginner level entry into Macs/macOS. The current hardware may be worth the price, but Apple has clearly missed making something that’s a lot more affordable (with cheaper parts, fewer ports, etc.).
[+] [-] jdminhbg|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RickSanchez2600|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _ph_|6 years ago|reply
Having an iMac on my desk also makes it difficult just to add a PC to my setup, as I would need a screen on top of this (and my desk space is scarce), but one day I might do the step - recent Gnome desktops have become very nice, and with Wayland the Linux display stack is getting nicer too.
[+] [-] aiyodev|6 years ago|reply
That has not been my experience. The Apple store just refreshed my 2015 Macbook pro: new screen, new bottom case, new fan, etc. Did not charge me anything.
Apple products last much longer than others and are much cheaper to maintain.
[+] [-] empath75|6 years ago|reply
This is like saying Ferrari has doubled down on its refusal to sell a budget hatchback for families.
[+] [-] pier25|6 years ago|reply
I want an upgradeable Mac tower, but I certainly don't need a Xeon workstation with ECC memory even if I can afford a Mac Pro.
I'm quite happy with my 5K iMac so far, but I'm worried about future repairs and upgrades.
[+] [-] djmobley|6 years ago|reply
It’s far easier than I thought it would be. Pick the right parts and it will work flawlessly.
[+] [-] jarjoura|6 years ago|reply
It wasn't designed for AI or ML either, because Apple is having a war with NVidia now, probably over component pricing, but who knows.
Developers didn't ask for this machine or a $6k reference monitor. They just wanted something they can swap out the video cards or memory or hard drives occasionally as time goes on. They wanted a nice display that gave them 200% scaling and proper color correction in a matching aluminum body.
Whether I can afford this machine or not at home is beside the point. It's just that after the keynote high wore off, and we returned to reality, it's clear Apple revealed the machine at the wrong event.
[+] [-] colmvp|6 years ago|reply
It fit everything I needed: it was thinner than my previous laptop as it had no optical drive, it was lightweight, it had a gorgeous screen, good enough keyboard, and seemed like a reasonable price for a higher end laptop work computer. I've used it everyday since 2012, and aside from the battery which I eventually replaced, it's been functioning without a hitch. From the 90s to the late 2000s, I used a variety of PC laptops and this was the only laptop that survived a huge amount of abuse from travel and daily usage (obviously, YMMV).
I'd love to upgrade to a new MBP, but I truly don't understand what they were thinking with this current iteration. The touchbar feels gimmicky and over the top. Call me old school, but give me physical buttons any day of the week and keep the keyboard simple. Most importantly, give me a keyboard that has more room to press so that random dust getting in there isn't going to screw shit up.
[+] [-] jasonkester|6 years ago|reply
I have a 2012 MacBook Air that was crazy fast, weighed four grams, and even ran windows 7. Sure, the drive was small, but it was perfect.
But some time in 2015 or so I made the terrible strategic blunder of upgrading to the latest OS version. Performance immediately dropped to zero, and now when I open it up for any reason, I just spend my whole time watching it spin uselessly trying to idle along with one browser tab open. It's sad to see it so reduced.
I've had the same experience with every iPad I've ever owned. Delightful, responsive machines that get auto-updated to brick status over the course of about three years. (I have every model up to air 3, and the only one still working perfectly is the old 1st gen air that I've kept on iOS 8 and spend a minute every day carefully dismissing the auto update prompt).
I have one of the sacred 2015 MacBook Pros, which now can't edit videos using the new format exported from my wife's iPhone x. An OS upgrade would solve that. But the machine is too precious to risk it.
I don't know what the solution is.
[+] [-] ianai|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1024core|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fastball|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxxxxx|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Thorrez|6 years ago|reply
>To be fair, this story hasn’t ended yet. [... T]hey still need to resolve the problematic MacBook Pro with its next generation (rumors are promising)
[+] [-] leoc|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] clay_the_ripper|6 years ago|reply
I have a maxed out 2015 MBP and I won’t buy the most generation under any circumstances. I buy laptops with the expectation it will last at least 4 years, and I have no confidence that this generation will last that long. I have full confidence though that the rumored replacement will be amazing, much like the new Mac Pro adessed the past criticisms.
[+] [-] jac_no_k|6 years ago|reply
Hardware has been trouble free, Windows 10 with One Drive makes it straight forward to change machines, apps run well as a normal user account, and to my knowledge it hasn't been hit with any malware. The screen being capable of touch interface, can actually be cleaned!
In comparison, my last of the "good" MBPr from 2015 has a partially fouled screen because the slightly greasy keys touched the screen. I am so annoyed when the screen is dark but I'm in a well lit room.
[+] [-] nathana|6 years ago|reply
But I have slowly found myself leaving the Apple ranks over the years, and the 2012 Retina was the last Mac I spent money on. I also ditched iOS (and iPhone along with it) for Android (long story) well before macOS began to take a back seat for me.
In January, I requisitioned a Surface Book 2 from my employer, and it has been fantastic so far. Easily the best laptop keyboard I have ever* used.
If you told 20-years-ago me that I would be buying PCs manufactured by Microsoft and praising them, I would have had you committed. But it has been fascinating watching a hungry Microsoft compete in this space...
[+] [-] SkyMarshal|6 years ago|reply
Probably worth seeing if having Apple Service can do the same for yours, but via a screen replacement.
[+] [-] coldtea|6 years ago|reply
1) Pro users wanted a replacement for the Mac Pro of yore. Instead they got something suitable only for high end pro studios, willing to pay $6k starting price for the new Pro (or are in need of a very-cheap-for-what-it-does (even-with-the-stand-included) but still very expensive reference quality monitor).
Where's my $3K-$5K Mac Pro (basically a headless iMac Pro grade machine) for regular videographers, graphic designers, etc, that don't make more than $100K/year and don't work for Nike or Hollywood? We used to have several options from Apple back in the day, now it's either the iMac Pro or, I dunno, the mini. Still no extensibility.
2) Where's a redesigned keyboard as a first priority? Why do they wait for a "new redesign" of the whole laptop? Meanwhile forcing people to keep buying the same broken design, even for the 2019 model? Just release the same current design with a decent 2015 style keyboard and the minimal tweaks needed to make it fit.
3) Where's a pro apple monitor that people who don't need /can't afford a $6K reference beast can buy? Where's the iMac / iMac Pro monitor in standalone form?
[+] [-] cromwellian|6 years ago|reply
For example, they claim the beefiest model will be 4x the old Mac Pro. But at what cost? $10,000-15,000 for maxed out system? How many cheap PC renderfarm computers can I get for that? How many cloud rendering instances could I rent?
To me, it's like they "listened" and built a Bugatti Veyron instead of a Ford F-350. The people wanting an upgradeable workstation are not looking for a max-out computer off the shelf. They simply want the capability to upgrade it over time or modify it according to their needs. In particular, for rendering 3d workloads, it seems renting cloud computers is far more scalable. If I am time limited, I can easily buy enough power to render 20x faster than this system in a crunch.
This seems more like a vanity project.
[+] [-] kjhughes|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] secstate|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fastball|6 years ago|reply
I just can't get over how inferior everyone else's trackpads are.
[+] [-] saagarjha|6 years ago|reply
Note that Apple quite publicly said that they had issues with the "trashcan" Mac Pro design and that it would take them a couple of years to resolve them.
[+] [-] whywhywhywhy|6 years ago|reply
It's clear now that they're unwilling redesign their machine ahead of schedule and are happy to ship a below standard and still very expensive device for the 3-4 years spec'd out for this design rather than swallow the cost a redesign would take.
They know Mac users will live with it, what choice do they have?
[+] [-] bartread|6 years ago|reply
I'm still "surviving" on a late-2015 15" MBP, which is making me twitchy because I'm down to one machine after my late-2011 17" MBP - which I used as my studio machine (built-in Firewire FTW) - died last week due to the somewhat infamous discrete GPU overheating issue (and Apple will no longer repair it; possibly fair enough after 8 years trouble-free use). I've resorted to buying a heatgun and some thermal paste to try fixing it, and will probably source a spare machine from that era for scavenging parts in future. I'm also considering a used 27" iMac from a similar era for the studio, although it's not so convenient to tote around.
Other options include buying a Windows laptop (probably Lenovo, which seem decent), although I hate Windows so would prefer to avoid it. Linux, although perfectly fine for a lot of what I do (and would I think be fine on many Lenovo models), will only run Ableton Live via Wine, which is not a prospect that fills me with joyful anticipation (ditto, Microsoft Office, I believe).
[1] A lot of people love the 2015 models and, I agree, they're not bad, but the rot had already set it. For me, peak MBP occurred a few years earlier, back in 2011: HDD and memory are both upgradeable, battery is easily replaced, and in fact the modular design of the interior makes it fairly straightforward to pull out and replace or clean most internal components (motherboard, optical drive, fans, etc.). The GPU overheating design flaw is, however, a big fail, so these machines are still far from perfect.
[+] [-] belazeebub|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iainmerrick|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rq1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjwright|6 years ago|reply
I think you misspoke; the 128k, IIfx and 8100 were all unequivocally top-end models at the time of release.
[+] [-] greedo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] natch|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rbanffy|6 years ago|reply
It's doubtful the machine is a good choice for anything other than an artist doing crazy sound/video stuff. It's simply too much compute power. Of course I'd love to have a 56-thread monster (I always wanted Intel to invest more seriously on Xeon Phi as a homogeneous CPU/GPU replacement because I got tired of the VAX+supercomputer arrangement from the 80's that survives today as the normal clever x86 driving stupid-but-can-lift-heavy-things GPU) but I simply can't justify one for me. When I actually need to do some heavy lifting, there is always Google or AWS to help me with it (and Azure can rent me some really big Cray iron if I really, really need that kind of power). I have a cousin who was into computational chemistry that has mastered programming the classic Cray boxes and even he would probably be very happy with ad-hoc swarms of cloud-based boxes these days.
The main advantage of the Mac Mini is the size, but if you match specs with an iMac Pro or even an iMac, you'll kind of end up with the same price for a machine without a monitor. It's cute, but I wouldn't get one. And the actual desk footprint of an iMac is more or less the same as a Mini with a monitor.
It'd be nice if Apple decided to sell the iMac LCD panels as standalone monitors (because I'd love to have a monitor with the same color responses as my iMac, just so that the background looks the same on all screens - or even the black background of the terminals were all the same shade of black, FFS). Maybe they will, but, again, considering all machines that can run macOS, all practical options in the low-to-mid-to-high-end (MacPros are waaay above that) have pretty nice free screens attached to the machine.
One minor complaint: the stand... Asking $999 for a monitor stand is beyond ridiculous. If it costs that much to make, then just sell the ultra-HDR 8K wundermonitor for $999 more and put the stand in the box. It's not like it's not much cheaper than the reference monitors it goes against. I'd totally get one without a Mac if I had to edit 8K video for money (lots of it). The stand is 2019's version of the "I'm rich" iPhone app.
All in all, we should think of the Pro as the SGI Tezro of our time - exotic, expensive, ugly (it really looks like a cheese grater) and probably more than we need.
[+] [-] TurbineSeaplane|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scarface74|6 years ago|reply
"That might work for Marco".
Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million.
But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapaper, and started a podcast that became popular. I'm sure Overcast was helped by his popularity but if it had sucked, no one would have downloaded it. Even for that he tried three different monetization strategies until he landed on one that worked -- writing his own non scummy ad platform. All of this with no outside funding.
And he lucked up and made money by being an early investor in Gimlet Media but that was way later.
But on a personal note. If I needed it, a $5,000 iMac Pro wouldn't break the bank and I'm just a regular old enterprise developer. That's less than two weeks billable work for a halfway competent cheap software contractor.
Heck my college computer was $4000 in 1992. A Mac LCII with 10MB of RAM, a //e card, a 5-1/4 disk drive, a Personal Laserwriter printer and a copy of Soft AT to run Dos compilers and a 12" monitor. Over the next two years I upgraded it with a larger monitor, an external hard drive, and an accelerator card using money I got doing a contract for a college.
[+] [-] imagetic|6 years ago|reply
I don't see any of the post-houses I work with on a regular basis chomping a the bit for the power they're offering at $6k though. Most have already switched to PC/Windows after Final Cut X and the Mac Pro trashcan came up very very VERY short.
This is definitely aimed at the highest budget niche audience. I'm sure a few very successful independent media people will buy them. I'll be jealous.
I've owned 3 Mac Pros in my life, but this breaks any budget I could possibly lay out for anything I have ever worked on in my entire career.
[+] [-] vinay_ys|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitL|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] altitudinous|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antidaily|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intellix|6 years ago|reply
It looked cool on iMessage that I could scroll through smileys but that's about it. Just about ready to completely disable the thing. Not sure how they'll be able to backpedal on it cause replacing it would mean admitting it was a failure.
Perhaps replacing all keys with mini screens to allow total customisation of what's displayed with the ability to still scroll on them?