As a ham operator this seriously disappoints me. The way it sounds the 2m ham band was targeted because it is world wide. Taking it is the easy way out for the producers.
The 2m band is the most prolific uhf/vhf band. Next would be 70cm band but if you get a single band radio it’s most likely 2m. There is a lot of equipment out there that would need to be replaced by people and clubs without a lot of financing. The repeaters serve immensely important roles.
For instance around me in Texas most of the storm spotters for NWS (skywarn) use 2m bands. Not having the repeaters may mean the difference between people being dead or alive when a tornado come through. I can’t over state the importance of these repeaters. But if forced to replace them there will not be enough funds to get the new equipment, antennas, etc.
I do however have hope the ITU has the foresight to protect the band.
Edit: oh and I forgot to mention iirc the ISS uses 2m as their backup communication. It’s used at least a few times a month. That’s how prolific the band is.
There are millions of 2m transceivers, some of which have appreciable power output. Attempting to operate drones on this band would be seriously stupid, even if other uses (which are historically solidly entrenched) would be banned.
It would be a shame if, in the event this passes, all those transmitters were to squeal across the spectrum in a coordinated fashion and render the spectrum basically unusable... hehehe.
Icom just come out the the IC-9700 with the primary band being 2m at 100w. I thought this site was better with the additional link near the end, plus it is from someone in France.
Serious bad news - not just for amateur radio operators, but for community emergency response groups, local event coordination (bike races, marathons), and any number of regional Red Cross response teams.
Thales, the French military aerospace company, seems to be behind this band-grab. They're apparently looking to use the 2-meter band to control drones and unmanned aircraft.
The good news is that there is enough 2m equipment out there that there could actually be a feasible mass radio protest and intentionally render the band unusable. There is no way in hell the FCC or similar authorities abroad could ever actually track down all the equipment or have the manpower to deal with violations. They cannot even stop robocalls in the US.
I'm a ham and the only radio I own is in the 2m band. I don't use it much day to day, but usually join in at least one disaster drill a year and help out with ham support for a local bike ride in an area with little cell service.
If I get kicked out of the 2m band, I doubt I'll move to a 70cm radio, why spend the money (including helping the local ham club replace their repeater) if there's no guarantee I can stay there.
The USA gets what is essentially free disaster communications in return for a few MHz of bandwidth. Seems like a small price to pay.
Seriously. 2m is the bread-and-butter of local ham communication. It's used as widely as the 11m CB radio band, and for similar purposes. Back when I had a car I had a 70cm/2m dual-band magnetic antenna on my roof that I would use regularly, as do many others.
It would also be insane to attempt to re-allocate this band for any other purpose, given how many millions of transmitters on this band already exist out there. The average car-mounted transceiver puts out 50 W. Many base stations run at hundreds of Watts, and are attached to quite excellent antennas (e.g. my parents have an 18 foot antenna on a mast at the top of their house, with a total base elevation of around 40 feet).
Good luck taking over the band. None of these drones can put out a tiny fraction of the power that the existing users of the band are already emitting.
Someone over on another forum that sounds like "read it" mentioned that this is likely a non-starter. There are more than a few satellites that operate in this band that cannot be moved to another frequency.
Never mind the fact that there would then suddenly be thousands of radios that could transmit on air band frequencies now in the hands of folks who ain't too happy.
Wow that would be a huge loss, I think the last reallocation was the 1.25m band. This would affect things world wide so it's not a surprise why Thales group would want to scoop it up.
This would totally suck. I just recently got my transverter (http://transverters-store.com/) working and am trying to get my antenna in the air. Personally, I don't see this happening if the ARRL and the other radio societies get involved.
One interesting bit of trivia (I always wondered about but finally read-up on): Early on, amateur radio bands were allocated in a manner that ensured (in all but one case) harmonics would bleed into another, higher amateur band, rather than into a frequency used for another purpose. Changes in the late 1920’s dispensed with this[1], but we do still see rough multiples in many cases (160/80/40/20/10 meter, 60/30/15 meter, etc.).
Ads and anti adblockers seem especially out of place on a .org site, perhaps because the TLD was "originally intended for non-profit organizations or organizations of a non-commercial character"[0] (though such provisions were never enforced and now apparently completely absent).
Speaking of adblocker blockers, Nano Defender[1] is quite effective at blocking them.
Can someone explain to me why it makes sense to dedicate 3Mhz of useful spectrum worldwide to an esoteric group of amateur radio enthusiasts in an era where we have the Internet?
I understand it may be an active community, but it's tiny. Why should this valuable spectrum be set aside for this purpose?
There are many reasons. Areas hit with wide-spread disasters have no functioning infrastructure. Radios are a quick and easy way to put an infrastructure into place. The 2 meter band is not susceptible to solar cycles, and it's cheap to make a radio operate in these bands; you can buy one for $20 on Amazon. Reliable spectrum + cheap radios + simple licensing procedures means you have thousands of unpaid volunteers with the technical know-how and equipment to set up a rather complex and efficient emergency communications network in a very short amount of time.
In other words, your smartphone isn't going to work, thus IRC isn't going to work. Even in areas hit by simple things such as power outages. Or events that take place over a wide geographic area with little to no cell service (think automobile rallies, marathons, biking events, etc). All these need reliable, inexpensive communications, and people to run them.
Next time you're stuck in an area hit by a natural disaster, and you've made it out alive, there's a significant chance amateur radio played a part in that.
They're completely different use cases. When you have a dedicated frequency it's robust to a lot of common failure cases.
Take the Boston Marathon Bombing, of all the communication infrastructure Amateur Radio was one of the few that stayed up[1].
It's really common for hams to provide event support in cases like that and other events where cell communication is limited to none at best(think bike races out in rural areas).
Spend a bit of time poking around the hobby, you might find it's more interesting than first glance.
"Amateur radio enthusiasts have made significant contributions to science, engineering, industry, and social services. Research by amateur radio operators has founded new industries, built economies, empowered nations, and saved lives in times of emergency."
As someone who works in the commercial radio industry, I understand where you're coming from - the amateur radio radio bands are relatively silent (but definitely not unused) compared the the commercial/business bands, which is frustrating. There are applications which are difficult or impossible to do for customers that would be doable if amateur spectrum was reallocated for commercial uses.
That being said, having "amateurs" (who often know as much or more about radio than people who do it for a living) be able to experiment and learn radio is a net benefit to society.
During emergencies, those amateur radio operators provide serious public service communications. When the cellphones go down - or are overloaded - ham radio comes to the fore. There's a surprising number of hams who organize local and regional communications networks.
Tiny community? 630,000 licensed hams in the USA ... about 2.5 hams for every thousand adults. Very roughly, about the same number of hams as there are police officers in America.
These hams often provide communications to such events as marathons (where people are spread out across a city), regional bike races (which sometimes happen where there's no cell phone service), as well as back-up communications during such troubles as forest fires.
Those hams who check into 2-meter emergency response networks are the people who your community will depend when the phone system croaks.
To add to this discussion, most of the frequency bands allocated to amateur radio are not super useful. The 2m band is basically only good for high-ish power (>1w) land mobile communications because the antennas are fairly large. The aeronautical band right next to it is only there because when it was started, the Very in VHF wasn't hyperbole. UHF is actually much better for them because you don't need a huge antenna sticking out into the wind stream but can get more or less the same range. Similarly, the lower bands are basically useless outside of their current amateur radio purpose because nobody is going to carry around a 20m dipole to connect to their cellphone or wifi router. The only exception would be maybe the 13cm through 1.2cm bands which I could see the telcos gunning for in a few years.
So to argue the other side of this, what happens when the internet is not available? Wireless communication is critical in Emergency situations, assuming the internet will always be there misses the point of the amateur band.
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
My father was a HAM operator, and I've seen the value first hand.
Not only do the operators themselves provide value in that they have alternative means for communicating in an emergency but most of them possess skills that come in handy during an emergency or in remote areas.
For example, they understand radio waves, the radio spectrum, and how waves travel through space. I remember my father telling me as a child how some signals travel outwards from the source in all directions, some waves travel in a straight line, and some will follow the curvature of the Earth. I remember him telling me that on the ground during 9-11 there were so many Nextel walkie-talkie's at ground zero (all of them with their signal power maxxed-out) and as a result of all the interference nobody could get a meaningful signal out.
Lots of HAM operators also understand circuitry, logic, programming, properties of electromagnetic fields, complex wiring, complex electro-mechanical assemblies, heavy mechanical assemblies like towers/antennas. They're also incredibly passionate, and mostly understand and respect the importance of strict regulatory compliance.
In short, when shit hits the fan and the EMP's start taking everything out we're gonna need someone to fire up some good ol' fashioned logistics/networking in a jiffy... And they HAM crowd is going to be the only one capable, willing, and eager to do that.
What are you really going to realistically do with just 3mhz of spectrum that will benefit more people than it does now with its existing use. Serious question.
I suggest reading up on how it’s used before making assumptions.
I would argue that an open 2M ham band is of more civic utility than just about any of the other amateur radio bands. It's very useful in emergency situations and for two way comms it remote regions without telecom. The radios can be extremely portable and with local repeater network have a good effective range.
The comparison to IRC would be more apropos for the HF bands.
Today there was a global Vodafone outage. I had no Internet access either through my mobile phone and my home fiber connection...
Would've been nice to have a radio handy.
[+] [-] gwoplock|6 years ago|reply
The 2m band is the most prolific uhf/vhf band. Next would be 70cm band but if you get a single band radio it’s most likely 2m. There is a lot of equipment out there that would need to be replaced by people and clubs without a lot of financing. The repeaters serve immensely important roles.
For instance around me in Texas most of the storm spotters for NWS (skywarn) use 2m bands. Not having the repeaters may mean the difference between people being dead or alive when a tornado come through. I can’t over state the importance of these repeaters. But if forced to replace them there will not be enough funds to get the new equipment, antennas, etc.
I do however have hope the ITU has the foresight to protect the band.
Edit: oh and I forgot to mention iirc the ISS uses 2m as their backup communication. It’s used at least a few times a month. That’s how prolific the band is.
[+] [-] jacquesm|6 years ago|reply
Forgive the pun but I don't think this will fly.
Here is a better article:
http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2019/june/france-proposes-1...
And without an irritating ad-blocker detector, if you want your stuff to be read don't block it with this sort of nonsense.
[+] [-] thomasjames|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lightlyused|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ahje|6 years ago|reply
Or start surfing with Javascript off as default. The popup must be JS-based as I can't see it. :)
[+] [-] zmix|6 years ago|reply
Just click it away.
[+] [-] CliffStoll|6 years ago|reply
Thales, the French military aerospace company, seems to be behind this band-grab. They're apparently looking to use the 2-meter band to control drones and unmanned aircraft.
[+] [-] thomasjames|6 years ago|reply
The good news is that there is enough 2m equipment out there that there could actually be a feasible mass radio protest and intentionally render the band unusable. There is no way in hell the FCC or similar authorities abroad could ever actually track down all the equipment or have the manpower to deal with violations. They cannot even stop robocalls in the US.
[+] [-] 420codebro|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Johnny555|6 years ago|reply
If I get kicked out of the 2m band, I doubt I'll move to a 70cm radio, why spend the money (including helping the local ham club replace their repeater) if there's no guarantee I can stay there.
The USA gets what is essentially free disaster communications in return for a few MHz of bandwidth. Seems like a small price to pay.
[+] [-] vvanders|6 years ago|reply
144-146Mhz is probably the most active band given the low cost of equipment and high utility due to not being dependent on the solar cycle.
[+] [-] CydeWeys|6 years ago|reply
It would also be insane to attempt to re-allocate this band for any other purpose, given how many millions of transmitters on this band already exist out there. The average car-mounted transceiver puts out 50 W. Many base stations run at hundreds of Watts, and are attached to quite excellent antennas (e.g. my parents have an 18 foot antenna on a mast at the top of their house, with a total base elevation of around 40 feet).
Good luck taking over the band. None of these drones can put out a tiny fraction of the power that the existing users of the band are already emitting.
[+] [-] taborj|6 years ago|reply
Never mind the fact that there would then suddenly be thousands of radios that could transmit on air band frequencies now in the hands of folks who ain't too happy.
[+] [-] waiseristy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xvf22|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lightlyused|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Curio3ale|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] valiant-comma|6 years ago|reply
[1] http://w2pa.net/HRH/family-harmonics/
[+] [-] pierlu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nullc|6 years ago|reply
Fortunately the popularity of 2m means the backlash here will be swift and forceful, if 2m can't be preserve for amateur use then no band can.
[+] [-] kabwj|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ihuman|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lightlyused|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ggm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RappingBoomer|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ficiek|6 years ago|reply
Tab closed.
[+] [-] miles|6 years ago|reply
Speaking of adblocker blockers, Nano Defender[1] is quite effective at blocking them.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.org
[1] https://jspenguin2017.github.io/uBlockProtector/
[+] [-] ihuman|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] syn_rst|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nichos|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kgwxd|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jlmorton|6 years ago|reply
I understand it may be an active community, but it's tiny. Why should this valuable spectrum be set aside for this purpose?
Just go on IRC.
[+] [-] taborj|6 years ago|reply
In other words, your smartphone isn't going to work, thus IRC isn't going to work. Even in areas hit by simple things such as power outages. Or events that take place over a wide geographic area with little to no cell service (think automobile rallies, marathons, biking events, etc). All these need reliable, inexpensive communications, and people to run them.
Next time you're stuck in an area hit by a natural disaster, and you've made it out alive, there's a significant chance amateur radio played a part in that.
[+] [-] vvanders|6 years ago|reply
Take the Boston Marathon Bombing, of all the communication infrastructure Amateur Radio was one of the few that stayed up[1].
It's really common for hams to provide event support in cases like that and other events where cell communication is limited to none at best(think bike races out in rural areas).
Spend a bit of time poking around the hobby, you might find it's more interesting than first glance.
[1] http://www.arrl.org/news/radio-amateurs-provide-communicatio...
[+] [-] ac29|6 years ago|reply
As someone who works in the commercial radio industry, I understand where you're coming from - the amateur radio radio bands are relatively silent (but definitely not unused) compared the the commercial/business bands, which is frustrating. There are applications which are difficult or impossible to do for customers that would be doable if amateur spectrum was reallocated for commercial uses.
That being said, having "amateurs" (who often know as much or more about radio than people who do it for a living) be able to experiment and learn radio is a net benefit to society.
[+] [-] CliffStoll|6 years ago|reply
Tiny community? 630,000 licensed hams in the USA ... about 2.5 hams for every thousand adults. Very roughly, about the same number of hams as there are police officers in America.
These hams often provide communications to such events as marathons (where people are spread out across a city), regional bike races (which sometimes happen where there's no cell phone service), as well as back-up communications during such troubles as forest fires.
Those hams who check into 2-meter emergency response networks are the people who your community will depend when the phone system croaks.
[+] [-] AWildC182|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kxrm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SOMA_BOFH|6 years ago|reply
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.1
47 CFR § 97.1
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
[+] [-] zelon88|6 years ago|reply
Not only do the operators themselves provide value in that they have alternative means for communicating in an emergency but most of them possess skills that come in handy during an emergency or in remote areas.
For example, they understand radio waves, the radio spectrum, and how waves travel through space. I remember my father telling me as a child how some signals travel outwards from the source in all directions, some waves travel in a straight line, and some will follow the curvature of the Earth. I remember him telling me that on the ground during 9-11 there were so many Nextel walkie-talkie's at ground zero (all of them with their signal power maxxed-out) and as a result of all the interference nobody could get a meaningful signal out.
Lots of HAM operators also understand circuitry, logic, programming, properties of electromagnetic fields, complex wiring, complex electro-mechanical assemblies, heavy mechanical assemblies like towers/antennas. They're also incredibly passionate, and mostly understand and respect the importance of strict regulatory compliance.
In short, when shit hits the fan and the EMP's start taking everything out we're gonna need someone to fire up some good ol' fashioned logistics/networking in a jiffy... And they HAM crowd is going to be the only one capable, willing, and eager to do that.
[+] [-] jsjohnst|6 years ago|reply
I suggest reading up on how it’s used before making assumptions.
[+] [-] jcims|6 years ago|reply
The comparison to IRC would be more apropos for the HF bands.
[+] [-] space_fountain|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ttsda|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 7402|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MisterTea|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] preinheimer|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]