Lyrics Site Genius.com Accuses Google of Lifting Its Content

[crazygringo]

> Genius said it found more than 100 examples of songs on Google that came from its site.

> In a statement, Google said the lyrics on its site, which pop up in little search-result squares called “information panels,” are licensed from partners, not created by Google... In 2016, Google partnered with LyricFind Inc., a Canadian company that secures deals with music publishers allowing companies such as Google to publish lyrics online.

So Google is properly licensing lyrics from song publishers and uses a third party to provide the lyrics, and somehow that third party wound up with more than a "hundred" -- not a million but a hundred -- that were copy-pasted from Genius at some point.

Except for the apostrophes thing being clever, this sounds like a complete non-issue? That Genius's issue is not with Google but the company they source from... AND that they'd have to prove a wholesale systematic copying (closer to millions of songs) as opposed to it being e.g. some rando employee who got lazy and took a shortcut one week?

[colmmacc]

I think Google are being deceptive here too. I find a lot of lyrics on Google that are mis-attributed and seem very unlikely to be correctly licensed.

The best example is that Google claim that the copyright to the Star Spangled Banner, the National Anthem of the U.S.A., is owned by "Concord Music Publishing LLC". It's beyond parody.

Song-writers don't seem to have much of a say in their lyrics showing up on these sites, and are often not credited at all. This has been going on a long long time and getting it right doesn't seem to be a priority.

[lettergram]

> "hundred" -- not a million but a hundred -- that were copy-pasted from Genius at some point.

To be fair, they can probably only confirm incorrect lyrics. Correct ones would look the exact same. Presumably, the vast majority are correct

[nlowell]

Genius does not appear to give a number on how many of their lyric pages had the hidden apostrophe codes, so we have no idea what the actual total count of copied songs is. I think the bigger issue is that Google denied having done anything wrong until this came under public attention, and there is no way for smaller companies to effectively pursue legal action against tech giants. >“We take data quality and creator rights very seriously and hold our licensing partners accountable to the terms of our agreement,” Google said. *when it comes under public scrutiny, otherwise we continue to profit from it as long as we can.

[xenator]

The same pattern you can use for any big company. Make some shady proxy one-day living pocket company, sign contract, let'em steal others IP, you are clear, ..., PROFIT!

I don't think that company even should know how their content will be used. For example if they just offer web-scraping service and provide raw data? For example for statistical analizes. And then Google publish this data as is on SERP and make money on adv. How is responsible in this case?

[robk]

These guys are notorious for having stolen lyrics from other sites for many years and only licensing them after legal threats. Funny to see it all come full circle.

[giancarlostoro]

That sounds odd to me that any site would own the copyright to lyrics. Wouldnt that be the artist / record company's property?

The value add of Genius isnt so much in the lyrics but in the explanation and context given grom Genius. I have even seen actual artists confirm interpretations and explain some things as well I think Hittman from Dr. Dre's 2001 album was one such artist if I remember correctly.

I do see what you are saying on the other hand but I dont think that lyrics written down from a song are some random websites copyright / property.

[teej]

They’re also notorious for shady SEO practices that got them effectively de-listed a few years back too. The Genius/Google relationship has been rocky, to put it lightly.

[cheeze]

Seriously. They built their empire on essentially 'stealing' lyrics.

[unreal37]

You can't "steal" lyrics because the copyright is owned by the record company. Both Genius and Google license the rights I believe.

But if Google is not sending traffic to Genius and using Genius as the source for some of it's lyrics, that's shady as hell. That's anti-trust.

[hornbaker]

I wonder how many companies Google has wounded/killed with their search infopanels. For example, yesterday I searched for “speedtest” expecting Ookla’s speedtest.net to be the top result. Nope, now it’s a one-click speed test offered by Google at the top. Great for users, devastating for the sites at the top of the SERPs.

[techbio]

Yellowpages and similar services proliferated about 10 years ago as way to capture passive AdSense revenue, but with many using outdated, incomplete, and often incorrect results. Those thousands of sites are now rendered unnecessary by Google's top box, street view, maps, menus, busy times, and other integrations. There is a clear path by which Google has arguably better served both search and advertising customers, at the expense of the publisher cost center, in this domain.

[kpU8efre7r]

If you search "Ookla speed test" or "speed test Ookla", then you get Ookla as the top result without seeing Google's panel.

If you only search for "speed test", you get Google's panel followed by Ookla's. I see nothing wrong with this, they are giving users what they want.

[dpflan]

It’s the power of Google as a portal to the internet and search engine; clearly it is a powerful position to have: Google can access demand for a service, and once it reaches a certain threshold decide to throw resources at creating their own version to keep you in their ecosystem.

I would like to know what Google team is in charge of using search trends to identify services to offer.

[i386]

I wonder how many companies Google has killed by entering the market , setting the price to free and then walking away when bored.

[wmeredith]

Well, to be fair if they were only surviving because of Google’s SERP listings... it sort of seems like a live by the sword: die by the sword situation.

If Google delisting your site destroys your business, there’s an argument to be made that they also created your business in the first place.

[johnx123-up]

This guy predicted Google SEO bubble http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/2018/01/technology-predicti...

[marak830]

As a user, why should I care? If Google knocks out the competition and the deprecistes it another company will fill that space.

I use a search engine to find information not to find a website that serves that.

(Fyi i don't use good, I'm a ddg user)

Edit: thumbs and smartphone :-)

[devoply]

It's a joke how trivial it is for Google to destroy these sort of sites.

[plotteddancer16]

Mapmakers had a similar problem in the past, but the theft could be proven by creating data (“trap streets”) that didn’t exist. Sounds like Genius has been employing similar mechanisms and needs to proceed with legal remedies

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street

[dpflan]

That is an interesting idea.

From the article in this post:

"When the two types of apostrophes were converted to the dots and dashes used in Morse code, they spelled out the words 'Red Handed.'"

I'm aware of the history of Genius (formerly Rap Genius) so I found the translation of the code to be entertaining and mildly ironic.

[yvoschaap]

I caught Google a few years back with the same hijack, but then it was Metrolyrics: https://yvoschaap.com/weblog/misbehavior_by_google_lyrics_on...

[tarr11]

Related to their previous battles with Google ("We're sorry for being such morons")

https://genius.com/Genius-founders-rap-genius-is-back-on-goo...

[walshemj]

Sounds like they haven't learnt their lesson and/or have an incompetent SEO director

[appstorelottery]

Years ago I had one of the top Coin Tossing Apps on iOS. Google changed all that by answering a coin-toss search with an actual coin-toss. My mind was blown that I was actually competing with Google at that point...

[mmastrac]

When I was at StumbleUpon we were competing with a "dice" icon that Google added to their own toolbar - still got bought for $70+ million.

[ryan_j_naughton]

What Google search will give you such results?

[vemv]

'Its' content? Don't the lyrics belong to their actual authors?

[CPLX]

Both of these guys suck.

These lyrics are the intellectual property of the people who actually wrote them.

[exogeny]

>The company doesn’t disclose revenues but says its ad business runs to tens of millions of dollars per year.

I am extremely skeptical of this claim.

[amaccuish]

The wikipedia info panels are particulary annoying, it seems pretty hard to find that actual link to the wiki article and I think they remove the wiki article from the main search results since it's now at the side.

[vonseel]

I have noticed the opposite, that Googles lyrics are usually inaccurate and I assumed they were lifted from alternative sources than Genius. Just my experience, though.

[wmil]

It probably isn't Google though. They say they license and receive content from LyricFind Inc, which probably takes care of all the legal issues.

I'm guess that LyricFind got lawyers from all the major labels to sign licenses, but no one ever actually bothered to get the lyrics for them. Management probably told their tech people to just get them from wherever.

[p1necone]

This seems pretty inane to me. Rightsholder licenses lyrics to both Genius and Google, Google copies lyric text from Genius. Seems like Genius shouldn't have a leg to stand on? (And even if they were technically right, they're wasting courts time and not actually achieving anything useful).

[wyqydsyq]

How is Genius.com in a position to make any claims on "its content" when said content is entirely the copyrighted works of various artists?

Just because the lyrics may be entered by users has no bearing on the fact that the lyrics are copyrighted works and that Genius.com doesn't own or have any rights to them. Just like doing a cover of another band's song doesn't mean you now own the song, reproducing and distributing a song's lyrics doesn't mean you now own the lyrics.

[nikanj]

Next:

1) Google will apologize and remove genius.com from results 2) Traffic at genius will plummet 3) Genius will beg for mercy, and give Google full rights to all material

[asatterfield54]

1. SELECT * FROM adsense_payouts ORDER BY amount DESC. If no results, SELECT * FROM search_results ORDER BY clicks DESC.

2. If y > x, where x = ((purchase price of company from #1) / 3) and y = (amount of payout) or y = (clicks * 1000) in #1

3. Clone MVP, remove company from adsense_payouts and search_results

[yawz]

LyricFind Offers Corrections to Inaccuracies in Wall Street Journal Reporting https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316

[paulpauper]

You mean the content created and owned by the actual song writers or labels.

[Grue3]

Anecdotal, but I was looking up lyrics for a song, and AZLyrics and Genius had slightly different lyrics. Google used AZLyrics version.