"The IAAF’s enforcement of gender normativity is also evident in its rebuttal of concerns raised by the World Medical Association and the United Nations, among others, about mandating that healthy athletes undergo medically unnecessary interventions in order to compete. Rather than viewing the serious and long-term consequences of lowering testosterone as “side effects,” the IAAF proposes that they are “the desired effects.” These changes—including reduced muscle and increased fat—are supposed to produce the kind of body that Stéphane Bermon, Director of the IAAF Health and Science Department, has presented as the “ideal female phenotype” at scientific conferences.
"Disregarding women athletes who have resisted these interventions, even to the point of bringing legal challenges against the regulation, the IAAF insists that these “medications are gender-affirming” and “change their body to better reflect their chosen gender.” The latter statement insinuates that women athletes who do not willingly modify their bodies to fit IAAF standards actively “choose” their gender, which deliberately encourages confusion with transgender athletes."
People need to reframe the problem. It’s not an issue of men vs. women. It’s an issue of segmenting the population into groups that can fairly compete with each other. As I can see it, those groups should be split up such that the number of men/women who win is proportional to the number of men/women who compete (i.e. if the group is split up based on height and there are 10% men in that group, men should win about 10% of the time).
Wrestling does it via weight, and different sports might have different metrics.
I think the proper framing here is that there is no ambiguity when competition attempts to select the best human. The ambiguity is introduced by people adding rules in order to select the best human fitting some criteria. And usually this means excluding 'men.' This is usually the only reason to introduce the notion of sex into the rules and is the source of all of the ambiguity. Such leagues used to be about selecting women who are the best at competing but are now increasingly becoming about selecting women who are the most man.
> "I am an interdisciplinary feminist scientist and science studies scholar whose work explores the reciprocal relations between science and the social hierarchies of gender, sexuality, class, and race."
This author is less of a scientist and more of a sociologist that is using data points to leverage an agenda about gender, sexuality and sports. Putting 'feminist' before 'scientist' implies a host of biases.
This is politically expedient propaganda that can be used to leverage the idea that trans-women (biological men) should continue to compete in women's sports because "it's not all about testosterone."
And then there's this lovely disclaimer by SA, as if to say 'we know...':
>"The views expressed are those of the author(s) and are not necessarily those of Scientific American."
Are there ANY medical doctors, chemists or biologists who want to weigh in on this, not just "feminist scientists" who have made a career in "science studies" via identity politics?
Non-myth: People with higher testosterone tend to have higher bone density and muscle mass and a whole host of other things, and people who have had higher testosterone for most of their life retain all of these advantages to some degree.
It's all fine and good that you want a space for trans athletes, but the experiment is going poorly; many women's leagues are being dominated by biological males, to absolutely nobody's surprise.
> and people who have had higher testosterone for most of their life retain all of these advantages.
Transgender woman here.
The lack of testosterone in my blood resulted in my muscle mass reducing to the point that I cannot do regular push-ups anymore. Granted, I could have trained if I wanted to retain this muscle mass but didn't.
I also have to take supplements as prescribed my by healthcare provider to retain bone density.
Both of those facts are well documented.
IMO athletes should be weighted & tested and then put in devisions as is done in boxing. A heavyweight will never fight a light flyweight. The same concept should be applied independently of gender.
The article in question covers "women with naturally high testosterone."
"[The IAAF's] initial analysis of data from two world championship competitions showed that women with higher T had significantly better performances in only five of 21 events. [In a corrected version, in] three of 11 running events, the lowest T group did better, and the strongest association across all events was the negative association between T and performance in the 100 meters, where lower T athletes ran 5.4 percent faster than the highest T athletes. In none of the events where high T athletes performed better was the gap greater than 2.9 percent."
"Consider a recent analysis of teenage Olympic weightlifters, in which the best predictor of strength was lean body mass, which has a complicated relationship to T. Among girls, body mass was initially the only significant predictor of weightlifting performance, and T was a predictor of body mass. But, counterintuitively, once the investigators controlled for the girls’ size, they unmasked a strong negative relationship between T levels and performance: girls with lower T lifted more weight. Controlling for body mass, there were no relationships between any hormones and performance in boys, even though their T levels ranged from 0.5 to 30.2 nanomoles per liter. In short, T (and other steroids) affect multiple body systems, and the relationships sometimes work in a positive synergy to improve performance, but they sometimes detract from performance."
Just a note, you're advocating for the end of women in professional sports. Only a tiny handful of women could continue to compete at the professional level.
Most men's leagues are open to women†. Women's leagues exist to make it possible for (biological) women to compete at high levels of a sport. Serena Williams is an amazing tennis player, but she is no match for a #200 men's tennis player.
The consequence of dissolving women's leagues is that, in most sports, no women compete at the top of any sport, except for the most extreme outliers.
† One famous beneficiary of this being Manon Rhéaume
[+] [-] mcguire|6 years ago|reply
"Disregarding women athletes who have resisted these interventions, even to the point of bringing legal challenges against the regulation, the IAAF insists that these “medications are gender-affirming” and “change their body to better reflect their chosen gender.” The latter statement insinuates that women athletes who do not willingly modify their bodies to fit IAAF standards actively “choose” their gender, which deliberately encourages confusion with transgender athletes."
What the heck?
[+] [-] pjc50|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elil17|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elil17|6 years ago|reply
Wrestling does it via weight, and different sports might have different metrics.
[+] [-] twiceaday|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alwaysanagenda|6 years ago|reply
> an "American sociomedical scientist whose research focuses on sex, gender and sexuality, as well as the epidemiology of HIV/AIDS"
and her own profile says: https://womensstudies.barnard.edu/profiles/rebecca-jordan-yo...
> "I am an interdisciplinary feminist scientist and science studies scholar whose work explores the reciprocal relations between science and the social hierarchies of gender, sexuality, class, and race."
This author is less of a scientist and more of a sociologist that is using data points to leverage an agenda about gender, sexuality and sports. Putting 'feminist' before 'scientist' implies a host of biases.
This is politically expedient propaganda that can be used to leverage the idea that trans-women (biological men) should continue to compete in women's sports because "it's not all about testosterone."
And then there's this lovely disclaimer by SA, as if to say 'we know...':
>"The views expressed are those of the author(s) and are not necessarily those of Scientific American."
Are there ANY medical doctors, chemists or biologists who want to weigh in on this, not just "feminist scientists" who have made a career in "science studies" via identity politics?
[+] [-] microcolonel|6 years ago|reply
It's all fine and good that you want a space for trans athletes, but the experiment is going poorly; many women's leagues are being dominated by biological males, to absolutely nobody's surprise.
[+] [-] Raphmedia|6 years ago|reply
Transgender woman here.
The lack of testosterone in my blood resulted in my muscle mass reducing to the point that I cannot do regular push-ups anymore. Granted, I could have trained if I wanted to retain this muscle mass but didn't.
I also have to take supplements as prescribed my by healthcare provider to retain bone density.
Both of those facts are well documented.
IMO athletes should be weighted & tested and then put in devisions as is done in boxing. A heavyweight will never fight a light flyweight. The same concept should be applied independently of gender.
[+] [-] mcguire|6 years ago|reply
"[The IAAF's] initial analysis of data from two world championship competitions showed that women with higher T had significantly better performances in only five of 21 events. [In a corrected version, in] three of 11 running events, the lowest T group did better, and the strongest association across all events was the negative association between T and performance in the 100 meters, where lower T athletes ran 5.4 percent faster than the highest T athletes. In none of the events where high T athletes performed better was the gap greater than 2.9 percent."
"Consider a recent analysis of teenage Olympic weightlifters, in which the best predictor of strength was lean body mass, which has a complicated relationship to T. Among girls, body mass was initially the only significant predictor of weightlifting performance, and T was a predictor of body mass. But, counterintuitively, once the investigators controlled for the girls’ size, they unmasked a strong negative relationship between T levels and performance: girls with lower T lifted more weight. Controlling for body mass, there were no relationships between any hormones and performance in boys, even though their T levels ranged from 0.5 to 30.2 nanomoles per liter. In short, T (and other steroids) affect multiple body systems, and the relationships sometimes work in a positive synergy to improve performance, but they sometimes detract from performance."
[+] [-] sp332|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sdinsn|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] barrkel|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] almostdeadguy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lazylizard|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whiddershins|6 years ago|reply
I believe the idea for a women’s division was to give a whole bunch of individuals a chance to champions who otherwise wouldn’t be competitive.
To my knowledge there is no rule whatsoever preventing involvement in the NBA or NFL on the basis of gender.
[+] [-] cco|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dlivingston|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microcolonel|6 years ago|reply
The consequence of dissolving women's leagues is that, in most sports, no women compete at the top of any sport, except for the most extreme outliers.
† One famous beneficiary of this being Manon Rhéaume
[+] [-] happytoexplain|6 years ago|reply