[mizchief2]

The whole point of Agile is to force the entire organization to recognize the fact that we don't know how long it will take to crate a satisfactory product. That doesn't mean just dev time but also figuring out what you want it to actually do throughout the process.

Instead of thinking you can write a perfect requirements document, then can just design and build it (waterfall) doesn't work.

The idea that you can have any sort of meaningful estimate even when you don't have perfect requirements is insane. Having an estimate with perfect requirements doesn't even work.

The most effectivly analogy I've used lately is: "Take your car to a mechanic and say "My car is making a funny noise, how long will it take to fix?" and see what kind of response you get"