You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are even more crooked, and of course there's no wrist support.
The split keyboards and ortholinear keys aren't that much better. They're mostly ideas about what would be better ergonomically, but they haven't been as thoroughly thought out as they seem. For the split keyboards, look at the whole of human history and tell me, out of the hundreds of thousands of years of tool use all the way back to the stone age, how many of those tasks were done with your arms set straight out in front of you, hands 12 to 14 inches apart. I bet most of human fine movement tasks were done with the hands close together (sewing for example). The position with your hands extended and 12 inches apart actually puts your elbows in a quite uncomfortable position, and I wouldn't be surprised if that in itself would lead to some injuries in that area (elbow).
As for the ortholinear key designs, that's not very ergonomic either. Make a fist with your hands. Now open your fingers. Do they open in a parallel line pattern like the orthogonal keyboards? No, they don't. They spread out, in a star-like pattern. If the keys were laid out similar to that pattern then, yes, I might concede a benefit there. But these two regular complaints about traditional keyboards while hailing split and orthogonal keybords as well thought out ergonomic solutions seem more like a fad to me.
By the way, I don't think the traditional typewriter-like keyboards are great, far from it. I do think, though, that our hands are pretty resilient, but not infinitely resilient. Too much repetitive work, insufficient rest, personal biomechanics, can all eventually lead to injuries, on all these types of keyboards.
A lot of people build their own ergonomic split keyboards, there are even websites like keeb.io which focus purely on kits for such variants, and open source projects like the ergodox or dactyl keyboards that everyone can 3D print(or otherwise create) and handwire with their own choice of componentes and materials. Of course it's not the majority but a market exists and many of the kits are almost constantly sold out.
There are tons and tons of ortholinear diy-boards floating around.
The problem with curved boards is manufacturing (for diy) and the pcb. But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. So there are a few curved boards out there as well. Such as https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform/blob/master/R...
As for touchpads they kind of suck as an input device (imo), but it would be easy to incorporate an apple device in the above. But people seem to be experimenting more with large ball mouses such as the kensington trackball or something like the point-stick that thinkpads use, where you don't even have to lift your hands of home-row.
Why do you think that the keyboard is the problem, and not the indoctrination of "this is the right way to type and posture" leading to further stress?
In fact, in my admittedly small sample of others I know who do have problems with their wrists, they were all ones who tried very hard to rigidly conform to the "standard" posture and move only the fingers of the hands instead of the whole arm. They were also people who hit the keys much harder than necessary.
I use a standard flat QWERTY keyboard and I can type for hours at 150+ WPM with no problem, but I've had comments from some of those people above that I'm not doing it right... when they're the ones who are getting pains in their wrists, not me...
If you try to keep your hands parallel to the keyboard no matter what, you are going to stress your wrists. Let them approach at whatever angle feels comfortable, and relax. That also happens to be the "trick" to typing faster too --- if you expend effort on trying to be "strict" about posture rather than just hitting the keys in whatever you feel to be the most comfortable way, you'll tire quickly, type slower, and stress your joints more.
It’s not only the form factor. They’re also obsessed with high resistance switches (going as high as 65 and even 80g activation point) which is sure way to develop RSI.
You should aim to go as low as possible but still avoiding accidental activation when resting your fingers on the keyboard. For most people, that means between 30 and 35g.
Realforce makes a bunch of them but they’re not held in high regard by the mechanical keyboard community because they don’t feel tactile enough. Let alone the fact that they dare using rubber in the keyboards.
Fortunately they seem to be busier building them from scratch and posting the results on Reddit than actually typing.
Funny you don't hear most pianists complaining about a need for a better piano layout. And they exist... http://www.altkeyboards.com/
The biggest value in QWERTY keyboards is that everyone can use them. It's a standard, and most of the information about it being intentionally designed to "slow you down" is false.
I care about the quality of my keyboard and how it feels in the same way I care about how my piano keys feel. Switching even from my thinkpad to friends butterfly MacBooks makes typing significantly harder for me.
As far as RSI is concerned, there was a time when I used to play WoW and I thought I might have a problem with this, but between small hand stretches and maybe just luck, I don't have these problems anymore. Maybe they'll come back as I continue to get older.
Here's a random reddit thread where random people seem to think posture and technique avoids RSI. I'm tempted to agree.
I just finished building my first design. It doesn't include a trackpad but it has curved keys like the kinesis, a thumb cluster that is better then the ergo dox or kinesis (but not perfect). People are building crazy custom keyboards.
Because not a lot of people prefer touchpads over mice. I'd very much prefer a compact keyboard + comfortable mouse to that setup (and given the keyboards a lot of people are building, I'm not alone)
Kinesis looks good for data entry and such keyboard-only activities, but otherwise, when one hand is using a mouse, I don't think it is comfortable. Any experiences?
I wonder if this is the audiophile equivalent of computer enthusiasm.
I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason, and using 20's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting individual tubes and all that...
So here the keyboard enthusiasts select their switches, key curvatures, materials, etc. and the result might just be some placebo feel good improvement and more noise for everyone else.
> I wonder if this is the audiophile equivalent of computer enthusiasm.
Obviously, there are many similarities, for examples,
* Community-driven
* DIY
* Emphasis on personal paste and preferences
This is why, drop.com is actually a well-known group-buy website that offers BOTH audiophiles AND mechanical keyboards.
> I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason, and using 20's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting individual tubes and all that...
But there are some important differences as well. Computer enthusiasm is either the delivery of objective performance or personal tastes and preferences. However, a large subset of the audiophile market is pseudoscientific, useless snake-oil that pretends to be an objective improvement.
Using vacuum tubes and selecting them individually is a personal preference, but buying "cryo-treated" vacuum tubes, some questionable power conditioners, and gold cables and actually believing them can have a significant effect (compared to, let's say, spending the money on upgrading the sound source or the acrostics of your room) is pure snake-oil.
On the other hand, computer enthusiasts know exactly what they are buying for, the transparency and competition is radical in the industry, unlike parts of the audiophile market.
> some placebo feel good improvement
There is no placebo effect, as mechanical keyboards users simply say that it's comfortable to type, and I don't see claims about how they can make you type faster (on the other hand, whether advocacy of alternative keyboard layouts are completely placebo effects would be something worth an actual discussion, e.g. I'm currently typing this on Dvorak).
You'll know without question that two mechanical keyboards have different characteristics, and you would have a personal preference. On the other hand, the same cannot often be said for some audio "equipment" such as a gold cable.
Not all mechs are noisy. Personally I was having significant pain in my finger joints until I switched to mechs with (fairly quiet) Cherry Brown and Red switches, and trained myself to type mostly without bottoming out the keys.
There are very clearly noticeable differences between the different keyswitches, and also between different shapes of keycaps. And not just in mechanical keyboards.
I have used a mass-manufactured red (linear quiet) keyboard, a custom split blue (tactile loud/clicky) mechanical keyboards, the keyboard on my current XPS 15, and many years ago a MSI gaming laptop with a SteelSeries-made rubber dome keyboard. I realize these are audiophile terms, but there is a huge difference in how each keyboard feels and how satisfying it is to type on them. It's not just like having slightly 'cripser' etc. audio - the differences are extremely obvious.
The red keyboard sucks for typing; I didn't realize how much until I switched to the blue. They offer no feedback and my WPM and error rate is much higher/lower on the reds. The blues have very solid feedback and feel nice to type on, the sound is also beautiful. The keyboard on the XPS 15 sucks, it's like typing on a piece of styrofoam - but better still than the new MacBook keybaords, which feel like like typing on a piece of wood. The MSI laptop had a very deep keyboard (almost as much key travel as a mechanical one) and the keys were heavy. The pressure required to push them down felt nice, and they bottomed out in a very satisfying way. I only use the MSI laptop a few times a year but I always look forward to typing on it.
If you only drove 4 door sedans (normal rubber domes) you would think that people are crazy for wanting to get their own customized cars in different form factors, but if you drove a sedan and a SUV and a pickup truck and a motorcycle you would know that it's very much not just a 'placebo feel good' difference.
On the other hand if you go to /r/mechanicalkeyboards you'll find weirdos spending $200 on keycaps and cases and $50 on USB cables, or people that collect dozens of keyboards, or people that use 10x3 keyboards (letters + space, no numbers ctrl alt etc.). Those people are the audiophile-type ones. I just have a nice $120 keyboard which I love to use and which will last a decade or more.
You can find audiophile-type stuff for really every category of purchaseable products. I have a beautiful metal $15 fountain pen (Pilot Metropolitan); on /r/fountainpens you'll find weirdos spending $100 on an ugly octagonal pen made with transparent plastic. Here's a video on laundry machine collectors who bring dirty clothes to meets and listen/watch to the laundry machines go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmmmxI-Y_6U
Also, to some people the sound is really pleasing. You may want to try out Bucklespring, which plays the sounds of an old IBM buckling-spring keyboard through your computer speakers, and you might realize why so many people like clicky keyboards. When I'm not using headphones I can hear the blues, when I am wearing headphones the blue switches are muffled and their sound mixes with the sound of Bucklespring. When I take the laptop outside and I'm alone I turn up the speakers a bit; the buckling spring keyboard on its own sounds amazingly good, and helps reduce the type-on-wood feeling of laptop keyboards.
Now seems like a good time to ask: does the loud, audible click of a mechanical keyboards increase the user's accuracy? Are our ears in the loop, consciously or not?
A family member had a mechanical keyboard with a cherry mx switch and I tried it out with an online typing test I'd tried before.
I could type about 20% faster than usual, which is already way up there. I easily hit 135+ in several segments[1], which is insane.
I easily felt when I was making a mistake, I had confidence in what I was typing. (because of each little click.)
But it was also really loud.
Is that necessary? Is it part of what made me fast and accurate?
The obvious way to test this which would not change the feel of the keyboard at all, would be to put in foam earbuds and then see if my typing rate or accuracy drops when I can't hear the keyboard. Unfortunately I didn't have any with me so I didn't try it.
Can someone who uses a mechanical keyboard comment on whether the audible noise from it is part of the typing loop? if someone here has the inclination and a mechanical keyboard and happens to have hearing protection with them could you try it and tell me whether your typing rate or accuracy drops if you can't hear the keyboard? (if you do an online typing test with strong hearing protection in.)
If it does not, then why aren't there any absolutely silent keyboards that just have the feel (tactile feedback) but without any loud click?
I plain can't decide if this clickety-clack noise is part of the feedback loop the typist uses or not. My family member's keyboard was incredibly loud.
--
[1] I'm being very literal so just to show you, on my own keyboard now I took a screenshot 15 seconds into a test, before I made any mistakes: https://imgur.com/a/eOejvsu - this was really hard for me to do now. On my own keyboard I can average 100 wpm for 60 seconds but it's really hard: https://imgur.com/a/tClgZR4
I have a keyboard with silent black MX switches and I never felt any need for clickyness.
The cool thing about these linear switches (Black, Red, Silver, Grey) is that you can type extremely silent if you like to, by just hovering the keys or you can type loudly by bottoming them out (if somebody was wrong on the internet or so).
When I type silently it is less loud than my lenovo notebook keyboard.
For me the click was never really necessary — the resistance of the spring is already enough. Maybe it is because I play guitar, bass and piano.
I don't get the clicky keys for the sound, personally. For me, it means that I don't have to bottom out the key to know that a key press has happened and I like having the sharp click. This is very nice for me, as I have reoccurring tendonitis in my wrist and the tendons that connect my fingers. That and the fact that I play organ, where you're supposed to press the key the absolute minimum to get the sound out.
Also it just feels nicer to me.
Then again, I haven't spent an insane amount of money on a keyboard. My work keyboard is a Red Dragon 10 keyless with Cherry MX blues (what you think of with clicky keyboards), one of the cheapest you can get on Amazon at around $25. Definitely worth the money, and in all honesty not a whole lot louder than the OEM keyboards some of my co-workers use (probably because I don't bottom out the keys).
I’ve wanted to make a keyboard, but I’m not sure it’s possible to make something materially better than the kinesis advantage. I switched to it 10 years after my hands would feel numb after typing.
I think I might have some problem other people don’t, but even for normal people, I find it hard to believe that a kinesis wouldn’t be better for them as well.
I’ve seen some split diy keyboards, but none of them have the great concave wells kinesis does. Also the kinesis has macros, key remapping, and easy switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Being able to type your password with one button is super cool!
Dactyl https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard is split and curved. Been thinking about building one, though I'd probably use wood as casing material and I know it will be a lot of work, so it may or may not materialize...
I appreciated a lot about the one I got but had a hard time dealing with the increased friction introduced for non-alphanumeric keys I use regularly for programming.
What I want is a non-radical, normal sized, ergonomic mechanical keyboard. I basically want an MS natural keyboard with a decent feel. Does such a thing exist?
Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches?
I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...). But it is "tiny" and doesn't have normal function keys, etc. After a while its lack of keys drove me crazy and I went back to my old mushy MS Natural.
> Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches?
Yes, to some extent at least. But maybe more the pcb, plate, case etc. I have a pcb for a ms natural style keyboard (without the numpad) and the effective size is 40x15 cm (16x6 inches). Not that expensive to get in China, but I guess it is has also become fashion with smaller boards now. I think the whole thing sort of started with modifying pok3r, ducky, ninja type keyboards
As someone with a mechanical Keyboard obsession I have this advice: "Walk away now!". This is a expensive hobby the more you get the more you want. The first fix is something cheap a couple hundred dollars. The next will be a little more bespoke on and on it will go. Until spending $500 on a keyboard seems like an everyday thing.
As someone who restores old Teletype machines, I don't consider little key units with clickers in them to be a "mechanical keyboard". On a real mechanical keyboard, like a Teletype or an IBM Selectric, you cannot push two keys at once. The mechanism resists that.
[+] [-] aasasd|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EL_Loco|6 years ago|reply
PS-> Who came up with calling it 'ortholinear'?
[+] [-] alpaca128|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|6 years ago|reply
The DataHand was a new interesting “keyboard” design in the 1990’s, about 25 years ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand
Btw, Xahlee has a great article on keyboard switches:
http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_switch_mechanisms.html
[+] [-] tjoff|6 years ago|reply
The problem with curved boards is manufacturing (for diy) and the pcb. But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. So there are a few curved boards out there as well. Such as https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform/blob/master/R...
As for touchpads they kind of suck as an input device (imo), but it would be easy to incorporate an apple device in the above. But people seem to be experimenting more with large ball mouses such as the kensington trackball or something like the point-stick that thinkpads use, where you don't even have to lift your hands of home-row.
[+] [-] amatecha|6 years ago|reply
https://www.flickr.com/photos/amatecha/41021237041/in/album-...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/amatecha/31638862398/in/album-...
[+] [-] eyeball|6 years ago|reply
As soon as the trackpoint modules are complete this will be the dream for me.
[+] [-] userbinator|6 years ago|reply
In fact, in my admittedly small sample of others I know who do have problems with their wrists, they were all ones who tried very hard to rigidly conform to the "standard" posture and move only the fingers of the hands instead of the whole arm. They were also people who hit the keys much harder than necessary.
I use a standard flat QWERTY keyboard and I can type for hours at 150+ WPM with no problem, but I've had comments from some of those people above that I'm not doing it right... when they're the ones who are getting pains in their wrists, not me...
If you try to keep your hands parallel to the keyboard no matter what, you are going to stress your wrists. Let them approach at whatever angle feels comfortable, and relax. That also happens to be the "trick" to typing faster too --- if you expend effort on trying to be "strict" about posture rather than just hitting the keys in whatever you feel to be the most comfortable way, you'll tire quickly, type slower, and stress your joints more.
This is good:
https://us.123rf.com/450wm/pxhidalgo/pxhidalgo1604/pxhidalgo...
This is not:
http://help.nchsoftware.com/help/en/keyblaze/win/keybd_hand_...
(My resting position is more like awef and jio;)
[+] [-] jandeboevrie|6 years ago|reply
https://raymii.org/s/articles/Split_keyboards_a_five_year_re...
[+] [-] TurboHaskal|6 years ago|reply
You should aim to go as low as possible but still avoiding accidental activation when resting your fingers on the keyboard. For most people, that means between 30 and 35g.
Realforce makes a bunch of them but they’re not held in high regard by the mechanical keyboard community because they don’t feel tactile enough. Let alone the fact that they dare using rubber in the keyboards.
Fortunately they seem to be busier building them from scratch and posting the results on Reddit than actually typing.
[+] [-] nixpulvis|6 years ago|reply
The biggest value in QWERTY keyboards is that everyone can use them. It's a standard, and most of the information about it being intentionally designed to "slow you down" is false.
I care about the quality of my keyboard and how it feels in the same way I care about how my piano keys feel. Switching even from my thinkpad to friends butterfly MacBooks makes typing significantly harder for me.
As far as RSI is concerned, there was a time when I used to play WoW and I thought I might have a problem with this, but between small hand stretches and maybe just luck, I don't have these problems anymore. Maybe they'll come back as I continue to get older.
Here's a random reddit thread where random people seem to think posture and technique avoids RSI. I'm tempted to agree.
https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comments/34y4x4/do_pianists...
And some good advice http://www.pianocareer.com/piano-practice/how-to-deal-with-p...
[+] [-] mietek|6 years ago|reply
https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
[+] [-] seniorsassycat|6 years ago|reply
https://imgur.com/a/hNcGCwf
My next build will be more ambitious. I want to include a USB hub, a raspberry pi zero, a small screen, and a track{pad,point,ball}.
[+] [-] maximilianroos|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Phrodo_00|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] solatic|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zerr|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doyoulikeworms|6 years ago|reply
that sounds like an amazing product TBH-- does anything like that exist?
[+] [-] tfolbrecht|6 years ago|reply
Once you type one handed or use a mouse your ergonomic keyboard is less comfortable than the traditional geometry.
[+] [-] megous|6 years ago|reply
I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason, and using 20's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting individual tubes and all that...
So here the keyboard enthusiasts select their switches, key curvatures, materials, etc. and the result might just be some placebo feel good improvement and more noise for everyone else.
[+] [-] segfaultbuserr|6 years ago|reply
Obviously, there are many similarities, for examples,
* Community-driven
* DIY
* Emphasis on personal paste and preferences
This is why, drop.com is actually a well-known group-buy website that offers BOTH audiophiles AND mechanical keyboards.
> I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason, and using 20's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting individual tubes and all that...
But there are some important differences as well. Computer enthusiasm is either the delivery of objective performance or personal tastes and preferences. However, a large subset of the audiophile market is pseudoscientific, useless snake-oil that pretends to be an objective improvement.
Using vacuum tubes and selecting them individually is a personal preference, but buying "cryo-treated" vacuum tubes, some questionable power conditioners, and gold cables and actually believing them can have a significant effect (compared to, let's say, spending the money on upgrading the sound source or the acrostics of your room) is pure snake-oil.
On the other hand, computer enthusiasts know exactly what they are buying for, the transparency and competition is radical in the industry, unlike parts of the audiophile market.
> some placebo feel good improvement
There is no placebo effect, as mechanical keyboards users simply say that it's comfortable to type, and I don't see claims about how they can make you type faster (on the other hand, whether advocacy of alternative keyboard layouts are completely placebo effects would be something worth an actual discussion, e.g. I'm currently typing this on Dvorak).
You'll know without question that two mechanical keyboards have different characteristics, and you would have a personal preference. On the other hand, the same cannot often be said for some audio "equipment" such as a gold cable.
[+] [-] DennisP|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_pwner224|6 years ago|reply
I have used a mass-manufactured red (linear quiet) keyboard, a custom split blue (tactile loud/clicky) mechanical keyboards, the keyboard on my current XPS 15, and many years ago a MSI gaming laptop with a SteelSeries-made rubber dome keyboard. I realize these are audiophile terms, but there is a huge difference in how each keyboard feels and how satisfying it is to type on them. It's not just like having slightly 'cripser' etc. audio - the differences are extremely obvious.
The red keyboard sucks for typing; I didn't realize how much until I switched to the blue. They offer no feedback and my WPM and error rate is much higher/lower on the reds. The blues have very solid feedback and feel nice to type on, the sound is also beautiful. The keyboard on the XPS 15 sucks, it's like typing on a piece of styrofoam - but better still than the new MacBook keybaords, which feel like like typing on a piece of wood. The MSI laptop had a very deep keyboard (almost as much key travel as a mechanical one) and the keys were heavy. The pressure required to push them down felt nice, and they bottomed out in a very satisfying way. I only use the MSI laptop a few times a year but I always look forward to typing on it.
If you only drove 4 door sedans (normal rubber domes) you would think that people are crazy for wanting to get their own customized cars in different form factors, but if you drove a sedan and a SUV and a pickup truck and a motorcycle you would know that it's very much not just a 'placebo feel good' difference.
On the other hand if you go to /r/mechanicalkeyboards you'll find weirdos spending $200 on keycaps and cases and $50 on USB cables, or people that collect dozens of keyboards, or people that use 10x3 keyboards (letters + space, no numbers ctrl alt etc.). Those people are the audiophile-type ones. I just have a nice $120 keyboard which I love to use and which will last a decade or more.
You can find audiophile-type stuff for really every category of purchaseable products. I have a beautiful metal $15 fountain pen (Pilot Metropolitan); on /r/fountainpens you'll find weirdos spending $100 on an ugly octagonal pen made with transparent plastic. Here's a video on laundry machine collectors who bring dirty clothes to meets and listen/watch to the laundry machines go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmmmxI-Y_6U
Also, to some people the sound is really pleasing. You may want to try out Bucklespring, which plays the sounds of an old IBM buckling-spring keyboard through your computer speakers, and you might realize why so many people like clicky keyboards. When I'm not using headphones I can hear the blues, when I am wearing headphones the blue switches are muffled and their sound mixes with the sound of Bucklespring. When I take the laptop outside and I'm alone I turn up the speakers a bit; the buckling spring keyboard on its own sounds amazingly good, and helps reduce the type-on-wood feeling of laptop keyboards.
https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring
[+] [-] thrwaway442|6 years ago|reply
A family member had a mechanical keyboard with a cherry mx switch and I tried it out with an online typing test I'd tried before.
I could type about 20% faster than usual, which is already way up there. I easily hit 135+ in several segments[1], which is insane.
I easily felt when I was making a mistake, I had confidence in what I was typing. (because of each little click.)
But it was also really loud.
Is that necessary? Is it part of what made me fast and accurate?
The obvious way to test this which would not change the feel of the keyboard at all, would be to put in foam earbuds and then see if my typing rate or accuracy drops when I can't hear the keyboard. Unfortunately I didn't have any with me so I didn't try it.
Can someone who uses a mechanical keyboard comment on whether the audible noise from it is part of the typing loop? if someone here has the inclination and a mechanical keyboard and happens to have hearing protection with them could you try it and tell me whether your typing rate or accuracy drops if you can't hear the keyboard? (if you do an online typing test with strong hearing protection in.)
If it does not, then why aren't there any absolutely silent keyboards that just have the feel (tactile feedback) but without any loud click?
I plain can't decide if this clickety-clack noise is part of the feedback loop the typist uses or not. My family member's keyboard was incredibly loud.
--
[1] I'm being very literal so just to show you, on my own keyboard now I took a screenshot 15 seconds into a test, before I made any mistakes: https://imgur.com/a/eOejvsu - this was really hard for me to do now. On my own keyboard I can average 100 wpm for 60 seconds but it's really hard: https://imgur.com/a/tClgZR4
[+] [-] atoav|6 years ago|reply
The cool thing about these linear switches (Black, Red, Silver, Grey) is that you can type extremely silent if you like to, by just hovering the keys or you can type loudly by bottoming them out (if somebody was wrong on the internet or so).
When I type silently it is less loud than my lenovo notebook keyboard.
For me the click was never really necessary — the resistance of the spring is already enough. Maybe it is because I play guitar, bass and piano.
[+] [-] jedimastert|6 years ago|reply
Also it just feels nicer to me.
Then again, I haven't spent an insane amount of money on a keyboard. My work keyboard is a Red Dragon 10 keyless with Cherry MX blues (what you think of with clicky keyboards), one of the cheapest you can get on Amazon at around $25. Definitely worth the money, and in all honesty not a whole lot louder than the OEM keyboards some of my co-workers use (probably because I don't bottom out the keys).
[+] [-] qwsxyh|6 years ago|reply
I am consistently 30wpm slower on my mech than I am on my laptop keyboard. I heavily regret buying this keyboard, even.
[+] [-] mruts|6 years ago|reply
I think I might have some problem other people don’t, but even for normal people, I find it hard to believe that a kinesis wouldn’t be better for them as well.
I’ve seen some split diy keyboards, but none of them have the great concave wells kinesis does. Also the kinesis has macros, key remapping, and easy switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Being able to type your password with one button is super cool!
[+] [-] jakobegger|6 years ago|reply
Do you really have a button on your keyboard mapped to type your password? If that's the case, I'm horrified.
But I secretely wish I had a button like that too...
[+] [-] bingerman|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erikerikson|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drewg123|6 years ago|reply
Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches?
I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...). But it is "tiny" and doesn't have normal function keys, etc. After a while its lack of keys drove me crazy and I went back to my old mushy MS Natural.
[+] [-] oposa|6 years ago|reply
Yes, to some extent at least. But maybe more the pcb, plate, case etc. I have a pcb for a ms natural style keyboard (without the numpad) and the effective size is 40x15 cm (16x6 inches). Not that expensive to get in China, but I guess it is has also become fashion with smaller boards now. I think the whole thing sort of started with modifying pok3r, ducky, ninja type keyboards
[+] [-] tobeportable|6 years ago|reply
It's more about travel distance from your home row. Adding more modifiers or having vim like modes baked in your keyboard help filling the gap.
[+] [-] erikerikson|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xupybd|6 years ago|reply
As someone with a mechanical Keyboard obsession I have this advice: "Walk away now!". This is a expensive hobby the more you get the more you want. The first fix is something cheap a couple hundred dollars. The next will be a little more bespoke on and on it will go. Until spending $500 on a keyboard seems like an everyday thing.
[+] [-] garbre|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cogburnd02|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|6 years ago|reply