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Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York

313 points| MobileVet | 6 years ago |bbc.com | reply

258 comments

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[+] mc32|6 years ago|reply
This sounds too convenient. If this was a suicide and not anything more sinister, this is gross negligence by prison authorities. It was their solemn duty and responsibility to see this person face trial.

This will only inflame conspiracy theory minded people to believe there is a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves.

This is depressing. I’m yet hopeful evidence will be used to bring guilty parties to justice. This wasn’t just mr Epstein.

[+] joshgel|6 years ago|reply
I am not a lawyer, but @klasfeldreports on twitter quotes an unnamed legal source who says:

"Background: An important note after Epstein's death: no one else will have standing to challenge the search warrant on his house. Everything will be admissible against any other defendant without possibility of a motion to suppress."

So maybe this will be a net good for justice?

[+] cpr|6 years ago|reply
Do you really think there isn't a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves? It's a bit too obvious to be called a conspiracy.
[+] Grazester|6 years ago|reply
If this guy attempted suicide before, shouldn't there be a permanent camera affixed to his jail cell (beside having a guard watch him)? If that is the case then we should have the video footage of his suicide even if the guard slacked off?
[+] willis936|6 years ago|reply
This was my first thought too.

The story in the Deus Ex video game series is starting to seem less ridiculous and impromptu, and more like a piece of prophetic media.

[+] yodsanklai|6 years ago|reply
Call me naive, but I would simply conclude the jailing facilities are underfunded and unable to prevent someone from committing suicide.

I just can't imagine someone being able to order such a murder. There would be too many people involved and risks of getting caught.

[+] drukenemo|6 years ago|reply
We are basically presented with a potential conspiracy shoved in our faces and you are worried that people might see a conspiracy there. It’s not an absurd logic.

Definition of the word:

“an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.”

[+] SHAKEDECADE|6 years ago|reply
To play devils advocate; who doesn’t want to protect themselves and that which they’ve worked for? From the poor who’ve worked hard for the past year to save up for engine for the late 70s truck. To the middle(ish) class who’ve worked hard for their first purchased two bedroom home. To the middle upperclass who’ve gone on a vacation to Branson Missouri. To pretty much everyone with children. To the ultra wealthy that are worth seven figures and up. Everyone wants to protect what they feel they’ve worked hard for. That includes the proposed ultra wealthy that have the means to insure they aren’t pulled into Epstein’s legal whirlpool.

If it exists, it makes sense they would protect themselves.

[+] 2_listerine_pls|6 years ago|reply
Why dismiss as conspiracy-minded those who raise the possibility of foul play?
[+] jgalt212|6 years ago|reply
> This will only inflame conspiracy theory minded people to believe there is a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves.

I'll do you one better. Is he really even dead, or did he pull a Ken Lay?

[+] ekianjo|6 years ago|reply
It could have been suicide, as in the parties who did not want him to talk may have arranged for everything he needed to end his life by himself. Of course, it is also possible it was not just suicide. Guess we will never know.
[+] wtknn|6 years ago|reply
>This will only inflame conspiracy theory minded people to believe there is a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves.

How is that a conspiracy?

[+] koolba|6 years ago|reply
There’s more than one angle to conspiracy theories as well. Was it a “hit” by the powerful protecting themselves or, did he have a dead man’s switch on incriminating others and it’s a fake and he’s been broken out of prison?

There’s so much to work with here that it’s going to go on for years.

[+] alkonaut|6 years ago|reply
Wow. I don’t think I have seen a situation before where Occam’s razor doesn’t help writing off the conspiracy. It seems harder in this case to believe someone in a jail cell on suicide watch kills themselves than to believe that it was arranged (that is, at least “allowed”). It’s suspiciously sloppy.
[+] heymijo|6 years ago|reply
These headlines...

"Financier"

Everything I have read since this came out states no one has any idea how/where Epstein made his money. And yet, the headlines read "Financier." Not convicted criminal. Suspected sex trafficker, rapist, pedophile, or anything of that nature.

Everything about Epstein and this case shows the insane power imbalance between those at the top of our society and everyone else.

[+] sangnoir|6 years ago|reply
In the press, the alleged victims were "young women" - not "minors" or "underaged". The difference in reporting is amazing to behold.
[+] koralewski|6 years ago|reply
Somehow 4chan knew it before media reported it: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/222518349/
[+] MobileVet|6 years ago|reply
Maybe because they didn’t need to corroborate the story first.
[+] rolph|6 years ago|reply
cops and prison guards are /b/ros and anons too. we even had a revelation regarding a certain closed FB group that was popular with certain CBP members, it was very much in the spirit of 4chan and 8chan/pol/
[+] fencepost|6 years ago|reply
I was expecting to see conspiracy theories due to the assorted powerful and wealthy people Epstein has been linked with, but really think about it. He was a wealthy man who lived a pampered lifestyle and had largely escaped consequences for his actions in the past but was unlikely to do so in this case. He was looking at spending the rest of his life not just in prison but as something of a pariah in prison (wealthy, privileged, child abuser). He'd attempted suicide previously and if that was an attempt on his life he had ample opportunity to say so.

As far as the suicide watch, sure he was high profile but he was in jail awaiting trial and there are probably plenty of people put on suicide watch. The jail doesn't have the resources to monitor everyone 24/7, and frankly regular checks are probably plenty to catch or prevent most attempts.

[+] cjbprime|6 years ago|reply
Hanging yourself takes material and a room where you can tie it up. Suicide watch is supposed to involve access to neither. That's a more important component than someone watching you occasionally.
[+] quxbar|6 years ago|reply
There are strict regulations around jail suicide watch, somebody must be observing at all times: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/552.42

Seems pretty inexplicable to me how he could outsmart seasoned professionals explicitly tasked with preventing his suicide.

[+] einpoklum|6 years ago|reply
So, you're saying that there is no suicide watch really, even for the blatantly violently suicidal who have just made a suicide attempt?

Remember - cells have video cameras, or at least - certainly suicide watch cells do, and people glance at these camera, you would think, every few minutes. Was Epstein the fastest noose-maker-and-hanger in the world?

[+] gooseus|6 years ago|reply
A lot of people talking about how hard it would be for him to kill himself and conspiracy stuff, but if there is a conspiracy then I think it's just as likely that Epstein could use his immense resources and connections to make sure that someone was looking the other way when he attempted.

It certainly could be a murder, but I'm not quite as convinced as other people seem... I'm sure it's very convenient for lots of his ghoulish friends, but it also makes a lot of sense that he would do anything necessary to get out of facing his crimes and the surrounding media circus.

[+] ASalazarMX|6 years ago|reply
> Epstein could use his immense resources and connections to make sure that someone was looking the other way when he attempted.

If we're entering conspiracy theory territory, why couldn't Epstein use said resources and connections to find a lookalike/prop artist, buy people and fake his own suicide?

[+] tyingq|6 years ago|reply
Oy. Certainly they knew this was a strong possibility, and a high profile case. I'm not prone to tin foil hattery, but this smells bad.
[+] rejschaap|6 years ago|reply
There was an earlier attempt or incident and he was on 'suicide watch'.
[+] joshgel|6 years ago|reply
Paraphrase from someone I saw on Twitter (can't find now):

Most people have already jumped to the conclusion that he was murdered. That's child's play for conspiracy theorists.

The real conspiracy theory is he faked his death!

[+] rurban|6 years ago|reply
The current theory is that they faked his death, they switched someone with him, who will get cremated very soon. The NY Post photo of him showed a different guy, and the meds looked also very suspicious.
[+] faissaloo|6 years ago|reply
Both are fairly likely, but one is easier to pull off than the other.
[+] Roboprog|6 years ago|reply
Classic. Thanks for the laugh, even if it’s HHOS.
[+] Millennium|6 years ago|reply
What a waste. May none mourn this creature's passing, but his particular case represented too many valuable opportunities for him to be allowed to die before trial.

Whoever allowed enough of a lapse in his suicide watch that the concept of him being "found" at all even makes sense should be fired and sued for gross malfeasance.

[+] willis936|6 years ago|reply
Even then they would only be getting another little guy, and not the malicious party.
[+] rdtsc|6 years ago|reply
If he was suicided, it was very well done, and a message sent to everyone who is involved. The message is "if you betray us, we will find and kill you even while you are on suicide watch in jail".

Epstein just didn't seem like a guy who would have a guilty conscience and decide he couldn't handle all any more.

I looked a bit into his case, mainly prompted by articles like these:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20576530

There made the point of connecting Brin to Epstein and other SV tech people, but then Clinton didn't show up to his dinner party once. Hmm. It seems to me like there is a deeper connection to the Clintons since they are going out of their way to distance his from Epstein with such awkward articles.

I guess, maybe those who feel brave enough should see if the prison warden or one of the guards on duty ends up getting some scholarships or trust funds for their children. Or one of them suddenly pays off a large chunk of their mortgage.

[+] not_a_moth|6 years ago|reply
This happened hours after the latest tranche of documents were made public, documents that named names.

Unfortunately for this community, one of our MIT heros was on that list. Don't even know what to say.

[+] xwdv|6 years ago|reply
If you were in his position though why not just kill yourself off? At 66 there’s not much life left to live and what’s left is going to be pretty shitty anyway behind bars.
[+] vnchr|6 years ago|reply
If I was his attorney, I would have advised he negotiate for a lighter sentence in exchange for cooperation around bringing others to justice. Standard practice. He could have gotten off with a light sentence and brought many others to justice. He’s literally done that before.
[+] chrstphrknwtn|6 years ago|reply
At 66, there’s another 15-25 years to live. Not trying to comment on the topic at hand, just saying that a lot can happen in 15 years; more than “not much”.
[+] garmaine|6 years ago|reply
Sure he had every reason to.. for the past couple of weeks.

But he suddenly succeeds within 24 hours of the information drop on Friday that named many rich and powerful individuals, to which he would possibly be the key witness? Isn’t that a bit suspicious?

[+] willis936|6 years ago|reply
This "suicide" is as believable as a "Russian reporter falling on a knife 26 times".
[+] buttcoinslol|6 years ago|reply
Does anyone know the going rate for a prison murder in NY? Through the guards, not the other inmates.
[+] kshacker|6 years ago|reply
Jokes from Reddit:

1. Committed suicide by shootings himself 15 times at the back of his head

2. If you are surprised by his suicide, imagine how surprised he himself was

Reddit has been predicting this for days or weeks now.

[+] anonu|6 years ago|reply
How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.
[+] jamesdmiller|6 years ago|reply
How common is it for a federal inmate on suicide watch to commit suicide? What's the Bayesian prior?