As much as SHAKEN/STIR is a fun tech, I think the article misses the part which will actually hurt the callers:
> Require Traceback Cooperation in Contracts. For all new and renegotiated contracts
governing the transport of voice calls, use best efforts to require cooperation in traceback
investigations by identifying the upstream provider from which the suspected
illegal robocall entered its network or by identifying its own customer if the call originated
in its network.
This is the amazing low-tech solution: It basically means companies will stop ignoring what they knew is happening for ages. As long as LE takes on the uncovered sources, I feel like this is the most important principle.
Slightly OT, but android's "screen call" feature has been my number 1 tool is fighting the robocall battle. It's more responsive than the "let all calls go to voicemail" approach, and 80% of robocalls disconnect by themselves when the bot starts talking. It still requires my live "attention" when the call is going through but I'm not that upset about a few wasted seconds, especially if it lets me grab a legitimate call when it's happening.
I love this feature a lot. I wish it could kind of combine with voicemail with a recording of the call but then its treading on the 'visual voicemail' territory.
I agree it's great, I really like it. Seems like the smarter bots don't disconnect and now they talk in order to get the pitch transcribed with the hopes you'll pick up.
I started getting the "Apple Support" scam robocall a couple weeks ago, and I decided to have some fun with the operator who tries to get you to install malware on your system. Slow playing, playing dumb, acting like they are talking about fruit not computers, and so on. It was fun for a little bit.
So they must have put me on a different list. Now I get the same call with the same intro, but when you press "1" - it connects you not to the scam operator, but to another hapless individual who's been robo-dialed. I get this call about 10x a day now.
Did this once, after 40 minutes or so of pretending to run a dozen different diagnostic tests on my computer the guy asked me to read him an error from the log. I told him it said something like "Fatal System Exception 0x0051: Someone is trying to play a scam on you."
Yep, I did this once with "Credit card services" and after about 20 minutes, I had gotten all the way to level 3. Level 2 was a hapless individual, but level 3 was a smooth talking ahole that was amazingly adept at manipulation. When I hung up he immediately called back and I told him I had been called dozens of times by this scam and this was my way of getting back at him. Click. 20 seconds later my phone rings and a person is screaming at me, telling me he wants off the list, etc, etc.
I unhooked my phone and called AT&T and tried to report it. They tried to get me to go through some absurd process and I dropped it.
I accidentally discovered a way to battle this. I had a phone number from a different state, far away from the state I'm living right now. I often get calls from the old state which I have no business with, and occasionally get calls from other states (not the one I'm living in) to test to see if I pick up. Robo caller has 1/50 chance of hitting the right state, even lower for hitting the right region.
I let all strange and not-in-my-contact numbers go to voice mail which I left in default. If it's important enough, hit my voice mail, I will call back. I got vastly reduced number of robocalls in the past year or so this way.
This can backfire. I have a similar set up, area code and number from state I used to live in, half way across the US. One of the businesses local to where I now live uses some sort of "least cost" attempt at routing calls out of call centers in or close to the area code of the number they're calling. The result? A call from an agent at a business which is 5 miles away from me sounds worse than the transatlantic calls I used get from my dad in the 80s.
It also helps to have that phone number in a low-value NPA. Robocallers have advanced beyond just random numbers now. They're targeting specific area codes and prefixes based on conversion rates.
Oh, I just got rid of voicemail all together. Just let it ring, then drop, if I don't know it.
My friend used the Off-Hook tone [0] as th initial sound on their voicemail, then followed by them actually leaving an invation to leave a message. It seemed for a while there that the robocall would just interpert the off-hook tone as a dead number and not wait the 3 seconds. But then they started waiting until the line dropped and that trick stopped working.
I've been using that trick for a few years... The problem I have with it, even with hiya installed, is that it still causes me to lose concentration and all of my blood to boil. If I had my hands on the people doing this...
I’ve been doing the same for years and years and get more calls than ever. A fair chunk of them now leave voicemails, and at least half of those aren’t in a language I speak.
I have dual SIMs, the oldest having a number from another state. The old number was publicly disclosed on resumes and gets hammered with robocalls from the same area code. The new one is only used for businesses I have accounts with and remains mostly silent.
""I salute today's bipartisan, nationwide effort to encourage best practices for combating robocalls and spoofing and am pleased that several voice service providers have agreed to abide by them," said FCC Chairman Ajit Pai in a statement."
This guy is THE absolute worst. 51 attorneys general were able to rally to a cause that the chairman of the FCC could only pay marginal attention to (and under duress at that; he didn't pay this issue any attention until political blowback started).
I try to be charitable in my assumptions about the motives of civil servants. I think their jobs are more difficult than most imagine, and the press coverage isn't always fair.
But I'm really struggling to find a charitable explanation for how Ajit Pai is conducting himself as FCC commissioner.
Can anyone think of a plausible theory that doesn't involve malice [EDIT: I should have said "self-serving" instead of "malice"] or extreme incompetence on his part?
There is no one, either individual or business, that has the same area code and prefix as my cell phone and would have any reason to call me, so when I see my area code and prefix in the caller ID, I know it is a spam call.
For quite a while, I'd respond by immediately declining the call, but I wasn't careful how I did it. It turned out I was not just hanging up or sending them to voice mail--I was hanging up and sending back a text message that said something like "I'm not available right now".
Of course the text message does not go to the spammer. It goes to the person whose number is being spoofed, who would then sometimes text me or call me trying to find out who I was and why I suddenly text them out of the blue.
Take a moment to make sure you know what the various call decline options on your phone actually do.
I got an annoyed series of text messages from someone once asking why I'd called them... I don't remember the details but it became clear pretty quickly that they were responding to one of those "same area code and exchange" spoofed calls.
It took a little bit of convincing for them to believe I wasn't the nefarious caller just pretending to be ignorant. Or they just got tired of sending me messages. Either is good, really.
Why would anyone want their "decline call" button to let the person calling that they're being intentionally ignored? That just seems terrible for both real and fake calls.
What I don't understand is why it is such a prevalent issue in the US but not in Europe.
I've had a couple of French phone numbers over the past 15 years and I can't recall a single time I got spam call (though I did get an occasional spam text message with a shady link). I know my parents occasionally get some call but it's a small handful of offenders that keep repeating the same call again and again.
I don't think it's a technical difference as you can make call using IPBX/VOIP without too much trouble here.
The way I handle this is to create a contact called SPAM RISK and add all the spam calls I get to that contact. My siblings do the same. Once a month, when we go to our parent's house, we sync this contact (we block this "caller"). Our parents are getting old and are starting to fall prey to these robo callers. I haven't figured out another way to help them...
I'm using robokiller (https://www.robokiller.com) which does a decent job of "getting ahead" of fraud numbers, especially of the local number spoofing variety.
Waste their time. If I'm not too busy. I answer their phone calls and I waste as much time as possible. If everyone answered the calls, kept them on phone for a minute. They would find something else to do. I kept one on for almost 10 minutes today. Insurance call, I told them I don't have the VIN and have to go downstairs to get it. Told them I live on the 8th floor and we don't have a working elevator. Told them I'm on a crutch and walking slow. The idiot was willing to wait until I told them I got downstairs and needed to go back up to get my car key.
I just got a call yesterday with the caller ID "CHASE ATM" and when I let Google screen the call it was one of those Chinese language scam calls. I get ~2-3 of these scam calls in Chinese a day, even though I'm Irish. It's fucking irritating, but the fact that they can be so brazen as to have "CHASE ATM" as the caller ID is dumbfounding. It's a goddamn shame our government can't function and scams like this are allowed to flourish.
I'm waiting for the "gotchas" to come to light that will allow the status quo to continue. Seems par for the course so far.
Most of the daily spam calls I get connect from my area code (which is a secondary area code that I haven’t lived in for 15 years). Just yesterday I installed an app that lets me block the whole area code, minus my contacts!
Yep. Such a simple solution that covers 90% of spam/scam problem and yet I still have to install 3rd party dialer apps on Android to get that functionality. :(
I have a simple low tech solution that is practical for m̶o̶s̶t̶ some.
Change your number to an area code that is outside of where you live - ideally a different state altogether.
If you get a call from an area code outside of where you live it’s probably Robo. If you get a call from area code of where you actually live, it’s probably legit. Ex: kids school, daycare, healthcare provider etc.
And... what if you don't have a smart phone? Did you forget that there are other kinds of cellphones too?
The issue is that the telephone system basically has no security/privacy/abuse defense mechanisms, and phone companies have done nearly nothing to fix that in the last 100 years. Well, unless your scam is stealing from the phone company (ala phreakers). Then maybe they'd try to fix it.
And if they spoof a number that’s on your contacts list? A false sense of security is not the same thing as security. The solution is action by the network providers.
I’m starting to think that maybe we should give robocallers the death penalty. Maybe there’s some sort of humanist counterargument, but I can’t think of any right now. Annoying millions and defrauding hundreds of people daily has got to cause at least as much cumulative social disruption as murder, right?
[+] [-] viraptor|6 years ago|reply
> Require Traceback Cooperation in Contracts. For all new and renegotiated contracts governing the transport of voice calls, use best efforts to require cooperation in traceback investigations by identifying the upstream provider from which the suspected illegal robocall entered its network or by identifying its own customer if the call originated in its network.
This is the amazing low-tech solution: It basically means companies will stop ignoring what they knew is happening for ages. As long as LE takes on the uncovered sources, I feel like this is the most important principle.
[+] [-] parliament32|6 years ago|reply
https://www.androidcentral.com/how-use-call-screen-feature-p...
[+] [-] VectorLock|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wyldfire|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shebanator|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] propogandist|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jerkstate|6 years ago|reply
So they must have put me on a different list. Now I get the same call with the same intro, but when you press "1" - it connects you not to the scam operator, but to another hapless individual who's been robo-dialed. I get this call about 10x a day now.
I hope they throw the book at these clowns.
[+] [-] hatchnyc|6 years ago|reply
He just screamed "fuck you!" and hung up.
[+] [-] e40|6 years ago|reply
I unhooked my phone and called AT&T and tried to report it. They tried to get me to go through some absurd process and I dropped it.
[+] [-] rrauenza|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ConfusedDog|6 years ago|reply
I let all strange and not-in-my-contact numbers go to voice mail which I left in default. If it's important enough, hit my voice mail, I will call back. I got vastly reduced number of robocalls in the past year or so this way.
[+] [-] cydonian_monk|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reaperducer|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Balgair|6 years ago|reply
My friend used the Off-Hook tone [0] as th initial sound on their voicemail, then followed by them actually leaving an invation to leave a message. It seemed for a while there that the robocall would just interpert the off-hook tone as a dead number and not wait the 3 seconds. But then they started waiting until the line dropped and that trick stopped working.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-hook_tone
[+] [-] coding123|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cgriswald|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] awinder|6 years ago|reply
This guy is THE absolute worst. 51 attorneys general were able to rally to a cause that the chairman of the FCC could only pay marginal attention to (and under duress at that; he didn't pay this issue any attention until political blowback started).
[+] [-] DoofusOfDeath|6 years ago|reply
But I'm really struggling to find a charitable explanation for how Ajit Pai is conducting himself as FCC commissioner.
Can anyone think of a plausible theory that doesn't involve malice [EDIT: I should have said "self-serving" instead of "malice"] or extreme incompetence on his part?
[+] [-] criley2|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ars|6 years ago|reply
Ajit Pai became chairman January 2017. So it took him a whole 6 months to work on the issue.
I really don't understand your criticism.
[+] [-] tzs|6 years ago|reply
There is no one, either individual or business, that has the same area code and prefix as my cell phone and would have any reason to call me, so when I see my area code and prefix in the caller ID, I know it is a spam call.
For quite a while, I'd respond by immediately declining the call, but I wasn't careful how I did it. It turned out I was not just hanging up or sending them to voice mail--I was hanging up and sending back a text message that said something like "I'm not available right now".
Of course the text message does not go to the spammer. It goes to the person whose number is being spoofed, who would then sometimes text me or call me trying to find out who I was and why I suddenly text them out of the blue.
Take a moment to make sure you know what the various call decline options on your phone actually do.
[+] [-] zerocrates|6 years ago|reply
It took a little bit of convincing for them to believe I wasn't the nefarious caller just pretending to be ignorant. Or they just got tired of sending me messages. Either is good, really.
[+] [-] NoodleIncident|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TBurette|6 years ago|reply
I've had a couple of French phone numbers over the past 15 years and I can't recall a single time I got spam call (though I did get an occasional spam text message with a shady link). I know my parents occasionally get some call but it's a small handful of offenders that keep repeating the same call again and again.
I don't think it's a technical difference as you can make call using IPBX/VOIP without too much trouble here.
[+] [-] todipa|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tehlike|6 years ago|reply
disclaimer: google employee.
[+] [-] awinder|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] segmondy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bmurphy1976|6 years ago|reply
I'm waiting for the "gotchas" to come to light that will allow the status quo to continue. Seems par for the course so far.
[+] [-] tehwebguy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] umanwizard|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dgellow|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reaperducer|6 years ago|reply
I've seen Europeans on HN complaining about robocalls. I'm pretty sure Germany is one of the countries that gets them.
[+] [-] Scoundreller|6 years ago|reply
Also depends on whether your EU country has a developing nation source for < 1 EUR/hr labour.
France and UK, sure. Germany and Italy, not so much.
[+] [-] europeusa|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gonehome|6 years ago|reply
I haven’t gotten a robocall since the beta started and it’s been great.
[+] [-] alyandon|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rynop|6 years ago|reply
Change your number to an area code that is outside of where you live - ideally a different state altogether.
If you get a call from an area code outside of where you live it’s probably Robo. If you get a call from area code of where you actually live, it’s probably legit. Ex: kids school, daycare, healthcare provider etc.
[+] [-] jjtheblunt|6 years ago|reply
This idea doesn't work for landlines, of course.
For legitimate new callers, they'd be shunted just once.
[+] [-] ggggtez|6 years ago|reply
The issue is that the telephone system basically has no security/privacy/abuse defense mechanisms, and phone companies have done nearly nothing to fix that in the last 100 years. Well, unless your scam is stealing from the phone company (ala phreakers). Then maybe they'd try to fix it.
[+] [-] gonehome|6 years ago|reply
Some additional features I'd like to see:
- Allow repeated calls through the second time
- Allow apps to pass the filter somehow (uber, door dash etc.) or make it easily to temporarily disable for 10min.
Even without these features it's by far the best solution.
The blacklists never worked well and were just hacks.
[+] [-] willis936|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coding123|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|6 years ago|reply
I get at least 3 calls a day although the volume will drop and climb here or there.
[+] [-] garraeth|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] labster|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gesman|6 years ago|reply
2. Auto-transfer any incoming calls not in my contact list to voicemail. Apple?
[+] [-] techntoke|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vpribish|6 years ago|reply