I'm really into home Cloud stuff. This answers none of my questions.
1) Where will my files be stored?
2) Does Duple store a copy?
3) What does Duple do with my meta data? What do they do with usage stats?
4) Does Duple have any third party contracts or contractors with access to my data?
5) How does putting Duple software on an RPI make my files available from anywhere? How do you enable access to my device from anywhere?
These guys are asking for an awful lot of faith from users who are looking to potentially store their entire lives on their service. We deserve to know how it really works.
A lot of those questions are answered in their FAQ.
The Duple application on your 'server' will simply expose a directory on that system (or a remote SFTP server) to other Duple applications you connect to it. All data will be on the machine you maintain. So no, they are not storing your data for you.
To enable access to your device from outside your local network, you have to either give the Duple running machine a public ip and open the port, or do port-forwarding if you are behind a NAT firewall (which is the most common situation for home cloud stuff)
What is the purpose of having "the cloud" in your home at all? To me "the cloud's" primary value is that it is running off-site, in an environment that capably and regularly deals with broken equipment. If my work is backed up in Google/Dropbox's data center, I don't have to worry about it if my house gets flooded.
Having the cloud in your house, running on whatever stuff is laying around, just seems one small step removed from just keeping everything on your laptop and hoping it doesn't break.
> No server needed. No expensive hardware required... You can use your Router, NAS, Raspberry Pi, Smart TV.
So... it turns those things into servers then (many of which already run servers by default)? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but a device running server software is still a server, even if it isn't dedicated to only that task.
The FAQ (linked from the very bottom of the page) is more interesting. The server part is just a file server. The client in this case handles all the file syncing, including locking. The client is the interesting part.
Every computer can be a server and every server is a computer. The only difference is on a layman's mind. Just because you're interfacing with the computer through a screen instead of a network connection doesn't mean the backend service/OS calls changed a bit.
From what I can gather from the FAQ, this won't work for routers behind a NAT, which is the case for me and I assume many others too, this should probably be mentioned somewhere.
A bit worrying that it'll be forever closed source, especially since it needs to expose your router to the internet and that it's written in C and also this sentence from the FAQ:
"The beta version of Duple is now available. You can download it and use it for free. However if you’d like to participate in the Duple beta program, and get a lifetime discount as a reward, click here."
But I don't understand what we are paying for going forward. Presumably you pay for the software once. Is there a recurring charge of some sort? What for? If the software is on premise, you can't really turn it off or stop it from working.
Does duple, the company, ever touch the data?
If privacy is the killer feature, it seems that an open source version will ultimately displace this.
It's free now, but you have to enter a magic code. The code expires in a month or so and then you'll need a new code, which will presumably cost money. So it's a free trial.
> We will have in the future our own dynamic DNS name service that will be included in the app price, so people don't have to pay for it with another company if they don't want to.
Looking at their "about us" page removed my confidence from their product. They should fix that asap.
For my data, I want reliability and security. I want something that has been battle-tested, and that I am confident will be around in a few years. This is why I went with Synology. Two guys in a "garage/bootstrapping" does not instill confidence.
I recently went from a DIY NAS (Linux PC with lots of HDDs shared on my LAN) to a Synology and am now absolutely in love with it.
All my devices now back themselves up to the NAS overnight. Cameras dump direct into the NAS via a card reader plugged into it. Family can all browse the family photo library from their phones or any device they want or cast slideshows to the TVs. Download torrents with my phone, saving directly to the NAS, then immediately watch it on my TV transcoded in real-time with automatic pulling of subtitles and metadata. I want to marry it.
Sure I’d prefer if all this was open source etc, but I played with FreeNas and various other packages and they don’t even come close in usability or ease of administration.
When someone says "modern day snake oil", this is what I think of. A "cloud" that isn't the cloud at all, pretends to be more reliable and secure than it is, and over-sells basic features like replication. "This USB stick will solve all your problems for a low, low price!"
In fact the biggest issue that I faced was that my router did not support NAT loopback which led me to using the pi for DNS in order to be able to use my "private" cloud.
Nextcloud is an open-source dropbox and is written in PHP. It can be very easily installed via docker and is quite mature at this point with a rich ecosystem of 3rd party apps for functionality other than file sync. Big props to the folks working on it!
It's not open source and it's not for sale, even though it's a business, so beware about what it's future may be.
However it might be reusable with an alternate core:
> Q: Do you plan to open-source it later?
A: We'll open source everything (server, interface, etc...), except from the C Library. Reason being that the library is what gives us our technical competitive advantage (being that you get the full private cloud experience with no need for a server). It's also important to note that you can't patent your code/algorithm in Europe, so there's no other way to protect it. But everything else expect from the library will be open-source.
A bit offtopic, but does anybody know a micro server the size of an Intel NUC or Mac Mini, but with 100+W desktop/server (real, not cloud) hardware for use as CI server?
Check out ASRock's DeskMini series [1]. While slightly larger than a NUC you can throw in a 65W CPU. Especially the DeskMini A300 [2] for AMD APU's seems to be pretty popular.
I wanted also a small, energy efficient server for CI at home. I was looking at SBCs (Single Board Computers) like Raspberri Pi and now others. Most are ARM based and max out at 2Gb or 4Gb RAM. I ended up buying an Odroid H2, which is x86 and takes up to 32GB RAM. I just received it so haven't put it together yet... also depends what you want to do with it how much you want to spend, I bought 32GB RAM, 1TB nvme and 6TB SATA HDD and plan to run everything on containers (docker). Also instead of say, Gitlab, Jenkins and Artifactory I think I'll use Gitea, Drone.io self hosted and I was looking at strongbox instead of Artifactory but not sure if it's production ready.
Good question. I too wonder. To extend your question with my own; What would be a cost effective solution to setting up home servers for CI/storage/whatever?
I could of course just buy random PC parts, but I'm curious to hear what people are liking. Are you liking your home servers form factor? Price tag? etc.
A white paper is necessary to understand this. It doesn't make sense otherwise. How would a smart TV or any TV for that matter be configured to export it's USB devices as a network mount? I mean, there's absolutely no way to reach a USB drive attached to your TV except from within the TV itself.
"You have one repository folder and one folder Duple on each device where you can access your cloud. This Duple folder works like a Dropbox folder, and everything is synchronized in multidirectional way between all the devices (all the Duple folders) and the repository folder which contains the totality of the private cloud."
So, here I am, exposing my 36TB nas using this new duple thing. Because every client needs the repository folder which contains the totality of the privace cloud, how is this going to work?
I finally ditched SpiderOak for SyncThing about a month ago - and I haven't looked back. It solves all of these issues, I fully host it myself, and I can access everything, exactly the way I want to based on shares.
I have a machine in my office, a shared folder on my mobile, two machines at home, and my wife has her office, and her work laptop. It's everything these things should be, other than the lack of an iOS app for her.
Apart from all the other stuff, it seems suspicious that they would use Serpent for encryption, rather than using AES or another more well-known cipher suite (also, no talk about AEAD).
The article you link perhaps hint at why the developers felt like this: The NIST report apparently suggested Serpent was actually a bit more secure, but Rijndael was chosen for AES because it allowed for a more efficient software implementation. The developers may feel that that trade-off wasn't worth it, although obviously, going with a less-common strategy for encryption is generally discouraged.
I see https://www.duple.io/en/blocked.html when I click Try Duple What countries do they intend to not sell their software in and why? A FAQ would be nice.
[+] [-] zelon88|6 years ago|reply
1) Where will my files be stored?
2) Does Duple store a copy?
3) What does Duple do with my meta data? What do they do with usage stats?
4) Does Duple have any third party contracts or contractors with access to my data?
5) How does putting Duple software on an RPI make my files available from anywhere? How do you enable access to my device from anywhere?
These guys are asking for an awful lot of faith from users who are looking to potentially store their entire lives on their service. We deserve to know how it really works.
[+] [-] mvanbaak|6 years ago|reply
The Duple application on your 'server' will simply expose a directory on that system (or a remote SFTP server) to other Duple applications you connect to it. All data will be on the machine you maintain. So no, they are not storing your data for you.
To enable access to your device from outside your local network, you have to either give the Duple running machine a public ip and open the port, or do port-forwarding if you are behind a NAT firewall (which is the most common situation for home cloud stuff)
[+] [-] human20190310|6 years ago|reply
Having the cloud in your house, running on whatever stuff is laying around, just seems one small step removed from just keeping everything on your laptop and hoping it doesn't break.
[+] [-] dperfect|6 years ago|reply
So... it turns those things into servers then (many of which already run servers by default)? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but a device running server software is still a server, even if it isn't dedicated to only that task.
[+] [-] sp332|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magashna|6 years ago|reply
Cloud...at home? This is a dumb headline. The definition of "server" has gone from big bulky slabs of bare metal to include smaller things like a RPi.
[+] [-] phil248|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aperocky|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] infinisil|6 years ago|reply
A bit worrying that it'll be forever closed source, especially since it needs to expose your router to the internet and that it's written in C and also this sentence from the FAQ:
> Everything was built from scratch
[+] [-] jbverschoor|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] projectramo|6 years ago|reply
"The beta version of Duple is now available. You can download it and use it for free. However if you’d like to participate in the Duple beta program, and get a lifetime discount as a reward, click here."
But I don't understand what we are paying for going forward. Presumably you pay for the software once. Is there a recurring charge of some sort? What for? If the software is on premise, you can't really turn it off or stop it from working.
Does duple, the company, ever touch the data?
If privacy is the killer feature, it seems that an open source version will ultimately displace this.
[+] [-] davidandgoliath|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mathnerd314|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thedanbob|6 years ago|reply
> We will have in the future our own dynamic DNS name service that will be included in the app price, so people don't have to pay for it with another company if they don't want to.
[+] [-] ChrisMarshallNY|6 years ago|reply
https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/drive
https://www.drobo.com/homeoffice/#file
I'm pretty sure that most NAS vendors have some variation on "Home Cloud."
I think most folks that want to set something like this up, will want a turnkey solution.
[+] [-] adamredwoods|6 years ago|reply
For my data, I want reliability and security. I want something that has been battle-tested, and that I am confident will be around in a few years. This is why I went with Synology. Two guys in a "garage/bootstrapping" does not instill confidence.
[+] [-] Sendotsh|6 years ago|reply
All my devices now back themselves up to the NAS overnight. Cameras dump direct into the NAS via a card reader plugged into it. Family can all browse the family photo library from their phones or any device they want or cast slideshows to the TVs. Download torrents with my phone, saving directly to the NAS, then immediately watch it on my TV transcoded in real-time with automatic pulling of subtitles and metadata. I want to marry it.
Sure I’d prefer if all this was open source etc, but I played with FreeNas and various other packages and they don’t even come close in usability or ease of administration.
[+] [-] Mathnerd314|6 years ago|reply
So basically Dropbox but with an SFTP server or network/local filesystem for hosting.
[+] [-] peterwwillis|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wheresvic3|6 years ago|reply
In fact the biggest issue that I faced was that my router did not support NAT loopback which led me to using the pi for DNS in order to be able to use my "private" cloud.
Nextcloud is an open-source dropbox and is written in PHP. It can be very easily installed via docker and is quite mature at this point with a rich ecosystem of 3rd party apps for functionality other than file sync. Big props to the folks working on it!
[+] [-] lonelappde|6 years ago|reply
However it might be reusable with an alternate core:
> Q: Do you plan to open-source it later? A: We'll open source everything (server, interface, etc...), except from the C Library. Reason being that the library is what gives us our technical competitive advantage (being that you get the full private cloud experience with no need for a server). It's also important to note that you can't patent your code/algorithm in Europe, so there's no other way to protect it. But everything else expect from the library will be open-source.
[+] [-] gramakri|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mathnerd314|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoshuaMulliken|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kube-system|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tannhaeuser|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dunedan|6 years ago|reply
[1]: https://www.asrock.com/nettop/index.asp#DeskMini
[2]: https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskMini%20A300%20Series/i...
[+] [-] drKarl|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asdkhadsj|6 years ago|reply
I could of course just buy random PC parts, but I'm curious to hear what people are liking. Are you liking your home servers form factor? Price tag? etc.
[+] [-] IloveHN84|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] r00fus|6 years ago|reply
I see "smart TV" as a host option, does that mean the storage devices can use unaware USB hosts to be a communication mechanism?
Interesting idea, I'll have to try it @home. Whitepaper on how the tech works would be nice.
[+] [-] aloknnikhil|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mvanbaak|6 years ago|reply
So, here I am, exposing my 36TB nas using this new duple thing. Because every client needs the repository folder which contains the totality of the privace cloud, how is this going to work?
[+] [-] cik|6 years ago|reply
I have a machine in my office, a shared folder on my mobile, two machines at home, and my wife has her office, and her work laptop. It's everything these things should be, other than the lack of an iOS app for her.
[+] [-] smush|6 years ago|reply
3x phones for photo upload, music sync, TWRP zips etc.
2x personal laptops
2x work devices + a personal VM
2x close friend party shares for easy linux iso sharing overnight
And most recently, added one volunteer device for instant/eventually consistent overnight poor-man's offsite data backup.
I can mix n match folders for this on the fly and feel no loss of functionality with how little I do arbitrary internet file sharing.
[+] [-] sorryitstrue|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dochtman|6 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(cipher)
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mattsfrey|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ignoramous|6 years ago|reply