Just an anecdote. I went to Beijing to watch the Olympics while I was in high school. During a volleyball game, I sat next to a local Chinese boy about my age and started talking with him.
Apparently, at some Chinese schools, they give all of the students an English name. Kind of like how American schools give you a Spanish name for Spanish class. His name was Adolf. I asked him if he knew any other famous Adolf's. Of course, he did.
I asked him about why the Chinese cheer so fervently against the Americans, even when they're not playing the Chinese. He said it was because Americans were friends with the Japanese. To play devil's advocate, I told him that the Americans fought the Japanese in WW2, significantly helping China, and dropped nukes on the Japanese. He told me it wasn't enough, the US should've eliminated Japan from the map.
I don't think my sample size is representative but I think it's a warning of how strong nationalism can be. In the US, we have relatively free flows of information and we still have a dangerous nationalist movement. I imagine it's much stronger in China where the government actively encourages it.
You have to take into account that Japan was the ISIS of Asia. Bayoneting babies, sex slave, medical experiments on humans. In South Korea still dislike of Japan is greater than North Korea. And Japan is got off mostly free after ww2 unlike the German trials
>Apparently, at some Chinese schools, they give all of the students an English name. Kind of like how American schools give you a Spanish name for Spanish class. His name was Adolf. I asked him if he knew any other famous Adolf's. Of course, he did.
I spent some time teaching English at a Chinese university and this just brought me back.
You see you can't just make up new words in Chinese like you can in Latin based languages. In English I could type "menseratanos" here and even though you have never seen it you can (at least try) to pronounce it based on the individual letters. But Chinese doesn't work this way since you can't make up a new Chinese sign and just expect people to know what it represents.
So to create names Chinese people combine existing words and end up with names native Americans used to have: "Grey wind", "Yellow sun", "Good Fortune" etc... Of course these all have more meaning to them in Chinese but you get the point. And therefor it is common to let Chinese people pick their own name for English class and... it is absolutely hilarious. Since they usually have as little exposure to the Western world as someone in the West has to the Chinese you will be left with a class named, and these are all real examples from my classes:
- Beyonce (for a boy).
- Vladimir
- Putin
- Vladimir Putin (would refuse to be called Vladimir or Putin).
- Fog (as in tiny water droplets)
- Adolf Hitler
- Justin Bieber
- Michael Jackson
- Morning (the time of day)
etc..
The Adolf Hitler kid I actually told to change it. When asked why he picked it he said: "he is great king". (after asking: he meant 'conqueror').
All in all living in China for a while is a fantastic experience.
The anti-American sentiment draws from the Boxer Rebellion and the Eight Nation Alliance that sacked the Summer Palace as well as America's support of the KMT during WW2. In the eyes of the Chinese, America eliminating Japan in WW2 doesn't absolve itself of its past grievances (nor its present ones i.e. playing world police and inserting itself into the South China Sea disputes).
You know the main purpose of nationalism in China is to justify goverment decrees right? They don't hate other countries by heart spontaneously, not like those in the US.
> I don't think my sample size is representative but I think it's a warning of how strong nationalism can be
Unfortunately, that's the kind of things you can hear anywhere in the world.
> I imagine it's much stronger in China where the government actively encourages it.
I wonder... I have a colleague of mine who grew up in a communism country. According to him, most people back then didn't really buy into government propaganda, which contrasts with modern democracies which rely on more subtle propaganda (Chomsky's "media control").
I really have no idea, it could well be that Chinese are on average less nationalist/warmonging than Americans for instance.
Nationalism aside as a Chinese citizen I believe all educated Chinese citizens should be grateful to the protesters in Hong Kong for the sole reason that these protesters are directly challenging the CCP (which is an extremely rare thing to happen in this day and age without the direct involvement of another superpower). It may be wishful thinking but I believe through direct confrontation like this CCP will learn and improve and reflect on all the shit it has done (just to name a few: the Tiananmen massacre, the disinformation campaign against Falun Gong and Jiang’s subsequent use of Falun Gong as a scapegoat to fulfil his political needs leading to more killings and screwed-up things like organ harvesting, the suppression and killings of the Tibetan culture and people, the on-going internment camps in Xinjiang, the kidnapping of Gui Minhai and others related to the Causeway Bay bookstore, etc) which collectively, in direct or indirect ways, lead to the pandemonium in Hong Kong today.
Only if HK didn’t protest against mainland tourists before. A lot of them has strong prejudice against mainland Chinese making it easy for Chinese government spin the people against these protesters.
To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...
Since I can read Chinese, I've been reading news coverage as well as opinions from both the English-speaking and the Chinese-speaking media. It is quite depressing to find that both sides are obviously biased. The Chinese news would emphasize isolated incidents of violence by the protesters during the protests, pontificate on it and publish op-eds analyzing the cause of the protests ranging from the failed economy of Hong Kong to the profound corruption of its youth. The English side of course would illustrate the use of tear gas and facial recognition technology by the police and paint the protestors as victims of an unjust and unsympathetic government whose independence and autonomy is chipped away little by little. Opinions aside, even just for the facts I'd like to think there's truth in both, but it really depressing that neither really wants to report the truth and the whole truth.
I think that kind of two-handedness is misguided and unhelpful. International media is openly reporting the violent side of the protest: brick-throwing, sticks, petrol bombs etc. Video footage of protesters beating away at police are openly displayed. Certainly, it is reported with the angle that the protesters have broad public support (as is true) and that they are the underdog fighting a justified battle against an increasingly oppressive regime (as is also true). But it is by no means one-sided coverage
I would not precisely segregate the bias of HK protest reports by language—some Cantonese (though very rarely Mandarin) outlets report news with protester bias, and vice-versa, there are English takes that sympathize with the police and/or mainland—but overall the lack of balanced reporting is frustrating.
That said, I have come to empathize with the disadvantaged side. When you have the information about the Tiananmen massacre, oppression in Urumqi, and everything else available through non-state-controlled sources; you see your home headed to join that system (a completely another country compared to 150 years ago); and you are facing a formidable entity well-versed in informational warfare and with extensive control over media—even if I condemn particular actions, I would find it hard to judge you for attempting to employ any means you find available, including one-sided reporting.
I do still get depressed every time I see attempts to fight bias with more bias.
> The Chinese news would emphasize isolated incidents of violence by the protesters during the protests, pontificate on it and publish op-eds analyzing the cause of the protests ranging from the failed economy of Hong Kong to the profound corruption of its youth.
You still haven't explained what 'truth' is missing from the english language news coverage. Pontificating about the "corruption of HK youth" and cherry picking isolated cases of violence sounds more like partisan hatcheting than actual news or analysis.
> there's truth in both sides
Most likely, but the truth rarely exists at the median of both 'sides', or even anywhere close to it. Enlightened Centrism(tm) is dangerously myopic.
I don't see any element of truth in the "failed economy" narrative. That's one angle that we really can get to the truth of without any media bias.
Are there any econometrics published from before the protests started that would indicate an economic cause? I haven't seen any but I also haven't looked hard enough to reject the premise.
Fortunately with freedom of the press we're able to pick our news sources and many Chinese state-sponsored media are also published in English. I don't think Beijing's perspective is getting short shrift.
Many Hongkongers were taught to look down the mainland and they are not proud of their own country. If you read more of the history of how different acts were withdrawn since 1997, you will see whatever the local government did, they do not agree - for the sake of being proud of disagreeing "mainland ruled" government :-) They probably do not necessarily worry about their life because most of them spent their parents' money. So they spend time to ruin the place they live in to pursue the spirit what was taught.
The economical decreasing, which was assumed to be one of the reasons of the protests, seems actually caused by the attitude. Namely if a person always wants to find a way to be against his manager (politically), is he capable of developing his own benefit in a company (economically)? I doubt.
I have to say, this is a smart move of anti-mainland (or anti-CCP) people to leverage these brainwashed young puppets and lead the movement. But it is meanwhile not so smart that everyone who can read Chinese knows who's really leading it. To be honest, this movement is really nothing to mainland if you understood the history in the past 70 years how the country was managed to develop.
And yes, looking into the media in both sides would be a good thing to mitigate the bias.
Besides, "the truth and the whole truth" is a joke, don't be depressed :-)
Well what truth do you want? China wants to extradite Hong Kong citizens to China to stand trial. Hong Kong citizens want autonomy. This is a classic David vs Goliath battle.
There are some extremely strong prejudice and discrimination against people from mainland, it's similar to racism. mainland Chinese people didn't know this in the past however the past few years it became much more pronounced, this is especially true among the poorer people in HK. People who visited Hong Kong came back with very negative experience and words spread fast. There's next to 0 sympathy to Hong Kong in mainland today, if the PLA rolled in to quell the protest, half would probably cheer.
Exactly, as a mainland Chinese, I traveled to dozens of countries and districts. Hong Kong was the least place I wanted to visit. As a matter of fact, I have never been there except at only one time when I needed to stay there over night for a connection flight, and I chose to stay at the hotel in the airport. I think others' negative experience stands for at least 70% of the reason for my negative attitude to Hong Kong.
[+] [-] dumbfoundded|6 years ago|reply
Apparently, at some Chinese schools, they give all of the students an English name. Kind of like how American schools give you a Spanish name for Spanish class. His name was Adolf. I asked him if he knew any other famous Adolf's. Of course, he did.
I asked him about why the Chinese cheer so fervently against the Americans, even when they're not playing the Chinese. He said it was because Americans were friends with the Japanese. To play devil's advocate, I told him that the Americans fought the Japanese in WW2, significantly helping China, and dropped nukes on the Japanese. He told me it wasn't enough, the US should've eliminated Japan from the map.
I don't think my sample size is representative but I think it's a warning of how strong nationalism can be. In the US, we have relatively free flows of information and we still have a dangerous nationalist movement. I imagine it's much stronger in China where the government actively encourages it.
[+] [-] codeswap|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apexalpha|6 years ago|reply
I spent some time teaching English at a Chinese university and this just brought me back.
You see you can't just make up new words in Chinese like you can in Latin based languages. In English I could type "menseratanos" here and even though you have never seen it you can (at least try) to pronounce it based on the individual letters. But Chinese doesn't work this way since you can't make up a new Chinese sign and just expect people to know what it represents.
So to create names Chinese people combine existing words and end up with names native Americans used to have: "Grey wind", "Yellow sun", "Good Fortune" etc... Of course these all have more meaning to them in Chinese but you get the point. And therefor it is common to let Chinese people pick their own name for English class and... it is absolutely hilarious. Since they usually have as little exposure to the Western world as someone in the West has to the Chinese you will be left with a class named, and these are all real examples from my classes:
- Beyonce (for a boy).
- Vladimir
- Putin
- Vladimir Putin (would refuse to be called Vladimir or Putin).
- Fog (as in tiny water droplets)
- Adolf Hitler
- Justin Bieber
- Michael Jackson
- Morning (the time of day)
etc..
The Adolf Hitler kid I actually told to change it. When asked why he picked it he said: "he is great king". (after asking: he meant 'conqueror').
All in all living in China for a while is a fantastic experience.
[+] [-] verroq|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avcdsuia|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yodsanklai|6 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, that's the kind of things you can hear anywhere in the world.
> I imagine it's much stronger in China where the government actively encourages it.
I wonder... I have a colleague of mine who grew up in a communism country. According to him, most people back then didn't really buy into government propaganda, which contrasts with modern democracies which rely on more subtle propaganda (Chomsky's "media control").
I really have no idea, it could well be that Chinese are on average less nationalist/warmonging than Americans for instance.
[+] [-] devoply|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] archibaldJ|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ConfusedDog|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_resistence|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ubercow13|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrischen|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonelite|6 years ago|reply
That tells you enough people vote with their feets, wallet and voice.
[+] [-] kccqzy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Arn_Thor|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] goblin89|6 years ago|reply
That said, I have come to empathize with the disadvantaged side. When you have the information about the Tiananmen massacre, oppression in Urumqi, and everything else available through non-state-controlled sources; you see your home headed to join that system (a completely another country compared to 150 years ago); and you are facing a formidable entity well-versed in informational warfare and with extensive control over media—even if I condemn particular actions, I would find it hard to judge you for attempting to employ any means you find available, including one-sided reporting.
I do still get depressed every time I see attempts to fight bias with more bias.
[+] [-] doktrin|6 years ago|reply
You still haven't explained what 'truth' is missing from the english language news coverage. Pontificating about the "corruption of HK youth" and cherry picking isolated cases of violence sounds more like partisan hatcheting than actual news or analysis.
> there's truth in both sides
Most likely, but the truth rarely exists at the median of both 'sides', or even anywhere close to it. Enlightened Centrism(tm) is dangerously myopic.
[+] [-] IIAOPSW|6 years ago|reply
Are there any econometrics published from before the protests started that would indicate an economic cause? I haven't seen any but I also haven't looked hard enough to reject the premise.
[+] [-] inimino|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] olgdyf|6 years ago|reply
The economical decreasing, which was assumed to be one of the reasons of the protests, seems actually caused by the attitude. Namely if a person always wants to find a way to be against his manager (politically), is he capable of developing his own benefit in a company (economically)? I doubt.
I have to say, this is a smart move of anti-mainland (or anti-CCP) people to leverage these brainwashed young puppets and lead the movement. But it is meanwhile not so smart that everyone who can read Chinese knows who's really leading it. To be honest, this movement is really nothing to mainland if you understood the history in the past 70 years how the country was managed to develop.
And yes, looking into the media in both sides would be a good thing to mitigate the bias.
Besides, "the truth and the whole truth" is a joke, don't be depressed :-)
[+] [-] devoply|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edwinyzh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aperocky|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] olgdyf|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kristianp|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iiuytrty|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] verroq|6 years ago|reply