Here in the Netherlands, they tend to kick the mother out of hospital as soon as feasible after the birth (typically after one night, or even on the same day), but as soon as you get home, the home nurse (kraamzorg, or "cradle care") arrives. She (and, as far as I know, it's always a she) will be at your home for something like eight hours a day for the first week or so after the birth, and will teach you how to care for the baby (even if it's your second, third, fourth, ...) and will monitor its health and progress. Remarkably, in the 'downtime' (e.g., when the baby is sleeping), she'll do household chores for you (such as clothes washing, vacuuming, washing up, etc.) and maybe even entertain any older children or go grocery shopping for you. The system works really well, and I've heard it be credited for the Netherlands' low infant mortality rate.
My family back in the U.K. can hardly believe it (especially the household-chores part); there, as I understand it, the mother tends to stay in hospital a big longer (typically for a few days), but once you're home, you're on your own...
Scottish babies too, as of a couple of years ago! The baby box is great: it's given to all parents pretty much automatically.
It's got everything a totally unprepared family would need to look after the baby for the first few days. Even as a not-completely-disorganised family, it was nice to have. And giving it to everyone is probably cheaper than trying to work out for which parents that level of support is necessary ahead of time. Not least because families who need the support are probably the least able to find it.
I'm very happy that my tax money is spent on preventative efforts, rather than relying on fixing things up after they've become critical.
I love the universality of these programs—there's no stigma attached to using them.
For our firstborn, we (in Michigan, US) used a county-provided program that included a quick home visit and a small welcome kit (nothing as elaborate as described in this article). While it was not presented as being only intended for impoverished/unprepared families, we couldn't help but feeling that we weren't their target audience, given our income level and family support.
All too often, US social programs are paternalistic "help the needy" regimes, often with intentional stigma (to supposedly cut costs through reduced utilization). IMHO, this is harmful for everyone.
An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. From an economical standpoint (especially through the viewpoint of the situation in America) measures like these would save the taxpayer money in the long run with less emergency issues arising and needing to be covered by public funds. I'm not sure why measures like these aren't used everywhere.
I’m happy to have had my baby in Scandinavia. We read up on all sorts of literature for preparation, but it’s an ocean of disagreeing information, but because having a child is hard, you’re assigned a nurse educated in infant well being by the government for free.
They help you with a range of things, one is to setup a sleeping setting where there is minimal risk of the baby dying. Not too warm, always sleep on their backs, have room to move stuff like that.
As usual Finland is just better at Scandinavia’ning than the rest of us. Good job Finland!
Now compare this to Italy, where my wife was denied an epidural injection for 4 hours, depleted all of her strength from enduring so much pain for so much time, finally got the epidural which an apprentice failed to perform properly resulting in my wife having her right side paralyzed for the rest of the childbirth.
That led her having to stay completely laid down, and to several nurses literally hopping on top of her and pushing our baby into life using their elbows like it's 1900 again.
Then, nobody helped her into start feeding our baby and while the baby was loosing more and more weight day by day, once at home we had to call a private obstetrician and I BEGGED HER ON THE PHONE to come save my baby and my wife.
She came over to our house, showed us what to do and how to do it, and almost two years later my baby is now a giant just like me.
Here in Norway we my wife and I stayed in a family room in the hospital "hotel" both times, but the last time I left the next day with our older daughter and my wife joined with the youngest a day later.
We both automatically get two weeks off work as a birth leave and option to have a "jordmor", what you would call a midwife in English, visit and help if needed. Then we had ten months of parental leave combined, I had four months and my wife had six.
One thing foreigners freak out over is that during the day we have the babies sleep outside in the strollers in winter. They're usually wrapped in wool materials and are very warm. Is this common elsewhere in Scandinavia? They sleep very well out in the cold :)
In France hospitals usually keep the mother and new born baby for about 5 days. They use that time to teach the mother how to care for the baby and to monitor how she's coping so that they can refer her to get more social help if needed.
We had a child in the US and the overall experience was pretty decent: there was a nurse who gave us some basic info (that's how you wrap it, that's how you wash it and you sleep it on the back) and a separate breastfeeding consultant.
Probably depends on the hospital.
As for the sleeping box, we just put our son on our bed where he slept happily for the first year.
In germany, a similar feature exists. Unfortunately, these nurses are so much in demand that you have to book them when you are planning on having a child (atleast where I reside).
In the US, we’ve had access to free birthing classes, infant CPR, and a lactation class. At the hospital we will be assigned a nurse and a lactation expert to help my wife. The infant CPR and birth class covered sleeping.
All the above are free and provided by the hospital. It helps that we are going to the hospital with the most births in the US.
I'm a happy recipient of this box 5 years ago. In the fog of the first days of learning to care for your newborn, it was a godsend. It felt like someone actually cared, rather than a bureaucratic handout.
Even now I recognize other children wearing the same clothes that we received - though our child is 2.5 now the items have obviously been passed along to neighbours and new siblings.
Agreed. My wife and I used baby boxes for the first 4-5 days with our twins. We've since gone on to recommend them at least a dozen times through various twins support groups. They really are a godsend in those first few days of chaos.
It's good to see tax money spent on such a comforting program. I think it lends to a sense of national pride when policies like this lead to good feelings in the citizenry.
That said, I think articles like this contribute to science illiteracy and innumeracy.
A layman could easily come to the conclusion that the baby box caused the drop in infant mortality after reading this article, but infant mortality has been dropping everywhere over the the same time period, regardless of policy.[0]
While the article does briefly mention the Finnish government's broader support for new families, like the free health checks early in pregnancy that is actually incentivized by the box, it doesn't include the overarching worldwide, postwar technological and economic trends that have been driving infant mortality down everywhere.
The whole piece reads like a very literal endorsement of the nanny state, rather than a celebration of human flourishing that it could have been if written in the proper context of broader trends.
Edit: Almost all the replies (and I suspect the downvotes) to my comment are making my point. I wasn't disparaging the box or Finnland's broader policies to combat infant mortality. I'm disparaging the article's failure to paint Finnland's progress in the context of a wider trend of lowering infant mortality AND Finnland's broader efforts to do so. That failure leads to overly simplistic conclusions that contribute to scientific illiteracy and innumeracy, exactly like the conclusions below.
Does anyone believe Finnland could provide these services without the broader technological and economic progress?
Here are some infant mortality numbers from your link:
1947:
Finland: 6.5%
US: 4.3%
2013 (when the article was written):
Finland: 0.3%
US: 0.7%
How can the tiny country of Finland be so much better at this than the US? It's because of what they talk about in the article, i.e., a government actually caring for its citizens (read, "welfare state").
Do you have evidence to suggest that it isn’t exactly programs like this that responsible for dropping the infant mortality rate worldwide? Your argument is an odd one.
>It's good to see tax money spent on such a comforting program.
I think that 'comforting program' is what might be called a sense of community. And the wisdom of investing in a future. Something which, in many so-called 'advanced' countries, has been under attack (by ignorance or deliberation) for generations.
There's also a "hidden agenda" behind this supply box.
In order to receive it, the mother needs to sign up for a health check (provide by the public health care system) and I believe you are supposed to do that before the 5th month of pregnancy.
This gives the opportunity to detect potential problems early on, offer guidance if there's reason to suspect substance abuse and so on.
I love this and wish it were a more widespread practice.
Baseline education of infant care is difficult for low income families. There's just too much to deal with.
A cardboard box will appear crude to many, especially those of higher income, but the cardboard box removes a lot of the guess work about what's allowed in while sleeping - which is essentially nothing.
Anyone who's had an infant before - there's too much conflicting information and it's downright scary because it's difficult to know what's right/wrong. I love this establishes a clear baseline.
Here in Argentina we had that program canceled by the current President Mauricio Macri, and the former was prosecuted for pushing for this program to be implemented nation-wide. There was also a big media campaign from the local multimedia monopoly to lay shame of the program [1][2], although it covered way more items than in Finland.
The boxes (qnitas) were left to rot in a warehouse. Trully fascist.
This was later found to be without basis and the goverment have been ordered to restart the program, without effect.
Thanks for posting. I was instantly reminded of qnita and its shameful persecution by the macrismo. What's worse is that the political points scored by Macri were never retracted -- few if any Argentinians know how the program ended, or that all the accusations were baseless.
Just before my kid was born here in the US, we got two boxes from Finnish families, and they were great.
It was approximately 100% of my son's wardrobe for the first several months, and we actually did have him sleep in it for a couple weeks early-on, putting the box on a (large, well-supported) stack of books next to our bed before we moved him into his own quarters. The clothing was unique (in the US) and attractive in a very Scandinavian sort of way, and held up really well. We've passed most of it on to other families, and each piece has probably been used by three or four different kids at this point.
Social policies work best when it appears the government is doing something to actually care for the population. It sounds like such a great way to help grow a healthy new generation. Investing in the youth!
Yes but it needs a desire to be helped on part of the populace. If the popular narrative is that anyone receiving govt help is receiving handouts[1], as is the case in the US, there's little that can be done that won't be seen as shameful charity.
[1] Unless the handouts are in the form of tax breaks for big companies, in which case they are the most patriotic thing to do.
My wife read this exact article from 2013, purchased a 'Finnish Baby Box' from a private company that makes and exports them from Finland, and our baby slept in it for his first seven or eight months. It actually turns out the idea for the company itself was inspired by the same article too. Here's the follow-up from 2016 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35834370
When I was pregnant (in Canada), I watched a series of videos about safe sleep and got a free Baby Box (Telus sponsored it): https://www.babyboxco.com/about/
Baby arrived 2 months early. When we brought him home 6 weeks later, I was amused by the contrast. Going from a fancy NICU bed to a cardboard box was a big change for him. He didn’t mind and slept in it for 5 months.
We got our cardboard box yesterday. It sure does help. Lot of clothes for the upcoming xmas package. Suitable clothing for even -10 °C naps outside.
From CPS professional point of view this box rocks. Absolutely a perfect thing for young mothers without the usual social network. Just if they would choose the box instead of money...
When this last came up on HN, the Scottish Government was in the process of rolling this out. It seems to have happened and baby boxes are now given to all newborns:
https://www.parentclub.scot/baby-box
Just wanted to point out that Scotland has a baby-box scheme inspired on the Finnish: https://www.mygov.scot/baby-box/ It was introduced after our wee one was born, though, so can't comment on the content, but friends seemed to be quite pleased with it.
They actually do this in some states in the US. I live in Ohio and I received a box when my son was born. It's very nice and I hope everyone, especially the people who need it are aware of the program.
Just thought someone should start a company that lets people purchase the Finnish baby box worldwide - I know I would have if it'd been an option for any of our kids.
[+] [-] SJSque|6 years ago|reply
My family back in the U.K. can hardly believe it (especially the household-chores part); there, as I understand it, the mother tends to stay in hospital a big longer (typically for a few days), but once you're home, you're on your own...
[+] [-] andrewaylett|6 years ago|reply
It's got everything a totally unprepared family would need to look after the baby for the first few days. Even as a not-completely-disorganised family, it was nice to have. And giving it to everyone is probably cheaper than trying to work out for which parents that level of support is necessary ahead of time. Not least because families who need the support are probably the least able to find it.
I'm very happy that my tax money is spent on preventative efforts, rather than relying on fixing things up after they've become critical.
[+] [-] organsnyder|6 years ago|reply
For our firstborn, we (in Michigan, US) used a county-provided program that included a quick home visit and a small welcome kit (nothing as elaborate as described in this article). While it was not presented as being only intended for impoverished/unprepared families, we couldn't help but feeling that we weren't their target audience, given our income level and family support.
All too often, US social programs are paternalistic "help the needy" regimes, often with intentional stigma (to supposedly cut costs through reduced utilization). IMHO, this is harmful for everyone.
[+] [-] wysifnwyg|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nafizh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] moksly|6 years ago|reply
They help you with a range of things, one is to setup a sleeping setting where there is minimal risk of the baby dying. Not too warm, always sleep on their backs, have room to move stuff like that.
As usual Finland is just better at Scandinavia’ning than the rest of us. Good job Finland!
[+] [-] trumbitta2|6 years ago|reply
That led her having to stay completely laid down, and to several nurses literally hopping on top of her and pushing our baby into life using their elbows like it's 1900 again.
Then, nobody helped her into start feeding our baby and while the baby was loosing more and more weight day by day, once at home we had to call a private obstetrician and I BEGGED HER ON THE PHONE to come save my baby and my wife.
She came over to our house, showed us what to do and how to do it, and almost two years later my baby is now a giant just like me.
[+] [-] tyfon|6 years ago|reply
We both automatically get two weeks off work as a birth leave and option to have a "jordmor", what you would call a midwife in English, visit and help if needed. Then we had ten months of parental leave combined, I had four months and my wife had six.
One thing foreigners freak out over is that during the day we have the babies sleep outside in the strollers in winter. They're usually wrapped in wool materials and are very warm. Is this common elsewhere in Scandinavia? They sleep very well out in the cold :)
[+] [-] mytailorisrich|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AlexTWithBeard|6 years ago|reply
Probably depends on the hospital.
As for the sleeping box, we just put our son on our bed where he slept happily for the first year.
[+] [-] rusticpenn|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wil421|6 years ago|reply
All the above are free and provided by the hospital. It helps that we are going to the hospital with the most births in the US.
[+] [-] rmrfchik|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Numberwang|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gingabriska|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ModsCtrlideas|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JimWestergren|6 years ago|reply
261 comments in 2013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728
262 comments in 2016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547353
Let's see if this time it gets 263 comments.
[+] [-] wruza|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] vnorilo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevekemp|6 years ago|reply
https://imgur.com/a/I0NYI
Even now I recognize other children wearing the same clothes that we received - though our child is 2.5 now the items have obviously been passed along to neighbours and new siblings.
[+] [-] scruple|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomchristie|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] padobson|6 years ago|reply
That said, I think articles like this contribute to science illiteracy and innumeracy.
A layman could easily come to the conclusion that the baby box caused the drop in infant mortality after reading this article, but infant mortality has been dropping everywhere over the the same time period, regardless of policy.[0]
While the article does briefly mention the Finnish government's broader support for new families, like the free health checks early in pregnancy that is actually incentivized by the box, it doesn't include the overarching worldwide, postwar technological and economic trends that have been driving infant mortality down everywhere.
The whole piece reads like a very literal endorsement of the nanny state, rather than a celebration of human flourishing that it could have been if written in the proper context of broader trends.
Edit: Almost all the replies (and I suspect the downvotes) to my comment are making my point. I wasn't disparaging the box or Finnland's broader policies to combat infant mortality. I'm disparaging the article's failure to paint Finnland's progress in the context of a wider trend of lowering infant mortality AND Finnland's broader efforts to do so. That failure leads to overly simplistic conclusions that contribute to scientific illiteracy and innumeracy, exactly like the conclusions below.
Does anyone believe Finnland could provide these services without the broader technological and economic progress?
[0]https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality
[+] [-] lr|6 years ago|reply
1947: Finland: 6.5% US: 4.3%
2013 (when the article was written): Finland: 0.3% US: 0.7%
How can the tiny country of Finland be so much better at this than the US? It's because of what they talk about in the article, i.e., a government actually caring for its citizens (read, "welfare state").
[+] [-] wmeredith|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ptah|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 8bitsrule|6 years ago|reply
I think that 'comforting program' is what might be called a sense of community. And the wisdom of investing in a future. Something which, in many so-called 'advanced' countries, has been under attack (by ignorance or deliberation) for generations.
[+] [-] jpalomaki|6 years ago|reply
In order to receive it, the mother needs to sign up for a health check (provide by the public health care system) and I believe you are supposed to do that before the 5th month of pregnancy.
This gives the opportunity to detect potential problems early on, offer guidance if there's reason to suspect substance abuse and so on.
[+] [-] irjustin|6 years ago|reply
Baseline education of infant care is difficult for low income families. There's just too much to deal with.
A cardboard box will appear crude to many, especially those of higher income, but the cardboard box removes a lot of the guess work about what's allowed in while sleeping - which is essentially nothing.
Anyone who's had an infant before - there's too much conflicting information and it's downright scary because it's difficult to know what's right/wrong. I love this establishes a clear baseline.
[+] [-] tutuca|6 years ago|reply
The boxes (qnitas) were left to rot in a warehouse. Trully fascist.
This was later found to be without basis and the goverment have been ordered to restart the program, without effect.
[1] https://www.clarin.com/politica/paso-paso-fraude-licitacion-... (in spanish)
[2] https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/plan-qunita-inseguros-c... (in spanish)
[+] [-] the_af|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JaviFesser|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] shitgoose|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whafro|6 years ago|reply
It was approximately 100% of my son's wardrobe for the first several months, and we actually did have him sleep in it for a couple weeks early-on, putting the box on a (large, well-supported) stack of books next to our bed before we moved him into his own quarters. The clothing was unique (in the US) and attractive in a very Scandinavian sort of way, and held up really well. We've passed most of it on to other families, and each piece has probably been used by three or four different kids at this point.
I did a significant write-up on it here: https://www.care.com/c/stories/580/a-year-with-the-finnish-m...
NB: It was on Kinsights back when that existed, and Care.com's redesign kinda botched the formatting. Sorry to myself and others!
[+] [-] _carl_jung|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kinkrtyavimoodh|6 years ago|reply
[1] Unless the handouts are in the form of tax breaks for big companies, in which case they are the most patriotic thing to do.
[+] [-] SamColes|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ksab|6 years ago|reply
Baby arrived 2 months early. When we brought him home 6 weeks later, I was amused by the contrast. Going from a fancy NICU bed to a cardboard box was a big change for him. He didn’t mind and slept in it for 5 months.
[+] [-] areoform|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marsvin|6 years ago|reply
From CPS professional point of view this box rocks. Absolutely a perfect thing for young mothers without the usual social network. Just if they would choose the box instead of money...
[+] [-] eggfriedrice|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nirse|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frankbreetz|6 years ago|reply
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/03/26/5213993...
[+] [-] atourgates|6 years ago|reply
Looks like someone already has:
https://www.finnbin.com https://www.finnishbabybox.com
Didn't expect them to be $300+ though. I wonder what the government is paying for these.
[+] [-] bananatron|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]