Having lived in London and San Francisco I can say that from my perspective there is a real problem with getting affordable, convenient and descent sandwiches in the US. They’re ubiquitous in England, every shop has pre packaged sandwiches and few are inedible. Most people who work in the city can grab something cheapish from pret that’s pre made and tastes good. I’m yet to find anything remotely equivalent here, prepackaged food is often just made really badly, from low grade ingredients so much so it’s not worth taking a punt on half the time. So you wind up paying more for something that just got made in front of you because the alternative will make you regret buying it. It’s a waste because most of the working week all you really want is something that will get you through till clocking off time that you can buy and eat quickly so you’re not wasting too much of your time out of the office.
This is actually one of my favourite things about road tripping around Europe; you can just pull in at a random service station and get affordable, convenient half-decent sandwiches (sometimes even decent ones!). In my experience, the only real significant ticket item on a European road trip is the fuel price. Even accommodations are generally a lot cheaper than their US counterparts.
Is San Francisco representative of metropolitan US cities? In my experience everything is expensive here in SF. In Toronto, I could get relatively nice (warm) meals around my office for nearly half of what an average one costs around SF financial district.
I agree. I work in a regular US 'downtown' and I just pack my own lunch because of that. At lunchtime, it's either a crappy prepackaged stale thing from a coffee shop or a 'culinary event' (read: expensive but rather basic food). Food trucks giving you the opportunity to taste other culture's foods (at a premium), restaurants charging $20 for a crappy meal during which you feel rushed, farm-to-table restaurants, etc.. The only good option would be a Whole Foods for which I walk about 20 minutes (not convenient) where I can grab a decent sandwich for under $10. I don't get why lunch needs to be so special. It's just lunch..
There's a Russian deli at about a 10 minute drive which gets it. At around 10 AM they start making and packing sandwiches and until 1 PM they're all gone. Very cheap, tasty, filling, etc..
Having grown up on the US east coast and lived on the west coast for more than a decade (first Seattle, now SF), I need to point out that San Francisco and the west coast in general is not the center of US sandwich culture.
I would go so far as to say the average quality of bread available in any random supermarket on the west coast is much lower than in the northeast. That was one of my first culture shocks here: suddenly good bread was a speciality item that needed careful selection.
Inflation's taken it's toll but I think you can still find Banh Mis for $5-6, even downtown. You can find premade burritos for ~$5 at grocery stores like Rainbow or Trader Joe's (but they're closer to 10 oz not the supersized stuff you'd get at a taqueria). And, quite frankly, I find the 7-11 sandwiches to be perfectly serviceable and usually in the $5-$7 range.
London's a funny example to me because I've been consistently underwhelmed by the food in England (train stations are no exception).
I'm in Canada and when I worked at a casino doing some overnight moves. The guy I was working with a Czech who said he has worked worked in Graz, Nice, Paris, Monaco, Barcelona.
We had a break for lunch at 3am and of course almost nothing was open at that time. He was shocked there were no small cafes to pick up a fresh croissant or sandwich. He said especially in France cafes are on every corner and open early (although maybe not 3am).
After living in London for a year and coming back to the US, I was perplexed at how much better (and cheaper) the UK supermarkets were when it came to prepackaged food. I rarely ate at restaurants and did a lot of cooking. Sainsbury's had a really great selection of pre-made chicken and tuna salads. They cost like $2 US (equiv) and all you needed to do was get some bread and it was enough to make two sandwiches. In the US, similar items cost around $6 (so over-priced). I would go to Pret quite a bit too, but there was also another chain that was cheaper (can't remember the name), but after like 4PM all the sandwiches they didn't sell got discounted and you could get some good ones for half-price.
The article is specific to pret a manger a fairly expensive/upmarket british sandwich chain. I'm not sure it says much outside of prets individual retail strategy. As the pound falls their USA prices look worse as it is hard for them to raise their UK prices. For what its worth sandwiches in UK business area strike me as extortionate but so is everything unless there happens to be a poundland nearby... I'm not sure living off sandwiches is anything for a nation to be proud of either. Lets hear it for fresh protein rich salads efficiently produced and deliverd by drone!
The article may only talk about Pret, but as an American who has lived in England for 6 months and visited there several times, Marks & Spencer's prepackaged food is also extremely good (there's no chain in the US where you're going to be able to get good sausage rolls or meat pies), and Tesco is only a step or two behind.
Furthermore, as some other people have mentioned, the UK has many, many more small local bakeries that sell high-quality made-to-order sandwiches—well above the quality of Subway, and while individual independent bakeries are of course going to vary, my recollection is that they tended to be above the likes of Panera and the sandwiches you can get at even high-end grocery stores like Whole Foods, as well. There are also various local variants that are well worth eating—the Cornish pasties we got when visiting that region were to die for (especially in Tintagel!).
conversely why do Americans pay so little for electronics? when researching to buy a new laptop about a year ago there was over a £500 difference on an identical model between the US and UK. Here are a few random examples of tech prices i just pulled up
Playstation 4 Pro: UK £349.99 US $364.99 (£291) ~£59 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
Thinkpad X1 Carbon G7 (base spec): UK £1429.99 US $1179.99 (£949) ~£480 difference (lenovo com/co.uk)
HiFiman HE-400i Headphones: UK £329 US $179.99 (£145) £184 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
Sandisk 400Gb Micro SD card: UK £67.95 US $48 (£38) £30 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
if that were your shopping list youd save a total of £753 by buying in the US, which is enough to fly LON-NY with not far off £500 left over! (LHR-JFK BA/Finnair Nov 4th-8th £270 Skyscanner.co.uk)
you guys have it pretty good over there even if you pay more for some food most other things are drastically cheaper than here in the UK. The phrase "Rip Off Britain" is very much true, we and i believe much of Europe get a pretty raw deal on the prices of things like houses, technology, cars etc
Being from Norway I considered buying electronics cheap in the in the US but discovered it was not worth it. Once you factor in the 25% VAT in, the difference shrinks. When you at considerably stronger consumer protections and warranty, the difference is all gone. Warranty in Norway on an Apple laptop is 5 year. It is just one year in the US and offers much weaker protection. If you buy a 3 year apple protection plan to get closer to Norwegian warranty, the laptop ends up getting more expensive in the US.
It just isn’t worth it.
I find the big price difference for me is on small things. Stuff like rubber bands, paper clips, tooth brushes etc will always be significantly cheaper in the US. But those things are impractical to import from abroad.
It doesn't explain the whole discrepancy, but I imagine one part of it is sales tax/VAT. Here in Europe all consumer prices are usually listed with VAT already included, while AFAIK US list prices are usually excluding sales tax.
In addition to 20% VAT that others have mentioned, I believe e.g. the better consumer protections increase prices. In EU the seller must refund/fix/exchange faulty products for a long time after the sale, unlike in US.
Maybe the portion sizes are bigger in the US. I ordered a two egg portion of scrambled eggs in Denny’s once and I have to say, the eggs must have come from a dinosaur because a mountain of eggs the size of El Capitan were served to me - yes, I know they just buy the raw eggs and pour them out, but good grief. And this scenario repeated itself everywhere.
Yes. For me, if I go to any restaurant that's not fast food, chances are an entree is enough for 1.5 meals (used to be 2 meals but sadly my appetite has grown). When I was a student I avoided those places because then I'd need a way to pack the food and not have it go bad.
It's easy to see why there's an obesity problem. Most people I speak to think that's one serving for a meal.
Scrambled eggs are pre-made in a large pan and made from egg powder, and scooped onto your plate with a serving spoon. There is absolutely no semblance of fresh eggs or a certain number of them when you order them scrambled.
Average salaries in big cities in US Ie.g., New York City) are higher than UK (e.g., London). It would make sense that lunch prices would be adjusted to reflect this difference.
It seems tempting to say that the quality of life in most of Europe is much higher than in the US. There's a decent chance this is a case of "the grass is greener" syndrome, but still.
Higher quality food, 4+ weeks of vacation, working weeks <40 hours, easier access to arts and culture, and significantly less income inequality and economic strife (not counting southern Europe here). Not to mention the lack of regularly occurring mass shootings.
On the other hand, if you're working in tech, the US is definitely the place to be. Salaries are significantly higher, while the costs of goods and services (excluding sandwiches and rent in the bay area) are much cheaper.
For people who've lived and worked on both continents, what are your thoughts?
European here. I haven't worked in the US but from chatting with my US friends, tech salaries are stupidly low here indeed unless you live in Eastern Europe where you'll get similar purchasing power as in the US.
Unless you work in a major(and expensive) tech hub and have skills that are scarce and in demand, income in tech everywhere else is not that much higher than any other boring office job unless you're a consultant on some niche thing.
So while you'll live a good life, you'll never hear stories like in the US of people in tech making enough money to buy a huge property or retire early unless they founded a successful startup that saw a good exit which is pretty rare.
I wish they had used a different Restaurant for comparison. Pret is just not very popular here unlike in Europe and I don't know many people who'd eat there (except maybe to grab something on the go). Outside of Pret, portion sizes are usually much larger in the US so it make sense that lunch in general would be pricier. Plus European imports like Pret are typically located in pricey downtown locations of cities like NY and SF where real estate is very pricey.
I was thinking the same thing. I worked near a Pret and it never seemed very popular and at least two of the Boston locations have closed in the last two years. There are just too many better sandwich options even if do cost a little more.
I travel to Europe a lot for work and its frustrating when you try and get a sandwich and its been sitting premade for a while, soggy bread, and its got a single slice of meat in it. Sure it may be a little cheaper, but compare that with sandwich you can get at Casa Razdora[1] or Bob's[2] and its not even close to as satisfying.
I read only up to the point in which I had to pay to continue. Was the article only focusing on sandwiches?
If so, is that the biggest food in common for lunches between the US and Great Britain?
I tend to bring my lunch M-Th and get takeout on Friday. My takeout is almost always Thai. When I dine-in it's usually ramen. For them, I expect to pay $10-12. What are prices like for Thai or ramen in London?
I can't read this, but I have to comment anyways. My guess is simply that america has two times the gdp per capita of the UK. Even if the cost of labour in boston is equivalent to that of london, that isn't going to be true elsewhere. the pre-made sandwhiches are most likely not made in Boston or London (rather cheaper towns in the same area). Because the average american is so much more expensive, the only surprise is that the difference is only 2 USD.
GDP is entirely irrelevant. What matters is salaries. The US may have a high GDP per capita, but it is the most unequal western country. Minimum wage is very low in the US compared to Western Europe.
US GDP is higher than Sweden, but workers tend to make more money in Sweden. In the US GDP is mainly distributed to the upper classes.
I think in Norway a McDonalds worker makes something like 2x-3x as much per hour as an American McDonalds worker.
The article doesn't really answer the question other than stating that there's more competition for sandwiches in London. Would've been nice to at least see some data to support that.
I'm in Norway, and tradition until relatively recently has been to bring a few slices of bread with ham, cheese, pate or whatever wrapped in paper. Sometimes left overs from dinner the day before. Almost always consumed in a canteen with your co-workers. More recently many work places have a canteen with both hot and cold food for a discounted price. If you don't have access to a canteen the shops sell relatively cheap sandwiches or micro wave lunches.
Interesting tangent: Lobsters were once so ubiquitous (both in Europe and the US) that they were considered a food of the poor. There are even records of servants petitioning their masters to not be fed lobster more than 3 times per week.
Americans love elitism and self promotion. That’s why hype products make so much money in the US but not in Europe. This is changing quickly as the EU has a strong push to Americanise Europe. The whole world might end up being the same set of fast foods, big chain restaurants and same faff food.
[+] [-] FuckButtons|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Svip|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lhorie|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] decebalus1|6 years ago|reply
There's a Russian deli at about a 10 minute drive which gets it. At around 10 AM they start making and packing sandwiches and until 1 PM they're all gone. Very cheap, tasty, filling, etc..
[+] [-] asveikau|6 years ago|reply
I would go so far as to say the average quality of bread available in any random supermarket on the west coast is much lower than in the northeast. That was one of my first culture shocks here: suddenly good bread was a speciality item that needed careful selection.
[+] [-] inferiorhuman|6 years ago|reply
London's a funny example to me because I've been consistently underwhelmed by the food in England (train stations are no exception).
[+] [-] quotz|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krapht|6 years ago|reply
I have always thought Subway was ubiquitous. So there's a counterpoint to your affordable, convenient, and decent.
[+] [-] dghughes|6 years ago|reply
We had a break for lunch at 3am and of course almost nothing was open at that time. He was shocked there were no small cafes to pick up a fresh croissant or sandwich. He said especially in France cafes are on every corner and open early (although maybe not 3am).
[+] [-] m0zg|6 years ago|reply
Why not, though? It 's nice to have a bit of a break for lunch. What's the rush?
[+] [-] gandalfian|6 years ago|reply
Subway? I'm uninformed but is this not a common thing in the usa?
[+] [-] squidproquo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gandalfian|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danaris|6 years ago|reply
Furthermore, as some other people have mentioned, the UK has many, many more small local bakeries that sell high-quality made-to-order sandwiches—well above the quality of Subway, and while individual independent bakeries are of course going to vary, my recollection is that they tended to be above the likes of Panera and the sandwiches you can get at even high-end grocery stores like Whole Foods, as well. There are also various local variants that are well worth eating—the Cornish pasties we got when visiting that region were to die for (especially in Tintagel!).
[+] [-] gaspoweredcat|6 years ago|reply
Playstation 4 Pro: UK £349.99 US $364.99 (£291) ~£59 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
Thinkpad X1 Carbon G7 (base spec): UK £1429.99 US $1179.99 (£949) ~£480 difference (lenovo com/co.uk)
HiFiman HE-400i Headphones: UK £329 US $179.99 (£145) £184 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
Sandisk 400Gb Micro SD card: UK £67.95 US $48 (£38) £30 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
if that were your shopping list youd save a total of £753 by buying in the US, which is enough to fly LON-NY with not far off £500 left over! (LHR-JFK BA/Finnair Nov 4th-8th £270 Skyscanner.co.uk)
you guys have it pretty good over there even if you pay more for some food most other things are drastically cheaper than here in the UK. The phrase "Rip Off Britain" is very much true, we and i believe much of Europe get a pretty raw deal on the prices of things like houses, technology, cars etc
[+] [-] socialdemocrat|6 years ago|reply
It just isn’t worth it.
I find the big price difference for me is on small things. Stuff like rubber bands, paper clips, tooth brushes etc will always be significantly cheaper in the US. But those things are impractical to import from abroad.
[+] [-] Nullabillity|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AnssiH|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nokicky|6 years ago|reply
When you add sales tax (which is paid most of the time) the difference narrows.
[+] [-] DanBC|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patrickk|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neonate|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vr46|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BeetleB|6 years ago|reply
Yes. For me, if I go to any restaurant that's not fast food, chances are an entree is enough for 1.5 meals (used to be 2 meals but sadly my appetite has grown). When I was a student I avoided those places because then I'd need a way to pack the food and not have it go bad.
It's easy to see why there's an obesity problem. Most people I speak to think that's one serving for a meal.
Portion sizes in most of the world are smaller.
[+] [-] orev|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j7ake|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] condercet|6 years ago|reply
Higher quality food, 4+ weeks of vacation, working weeks <40 hours, easier access to arts and culture, and significantly less income inequality and economic strife (not counting southern Europe here). Not to mention the lack of regularly occurring mass shootings.
On the other hand, if you're working in tech, the US is definitely the place to be. Salaries are significantly higher, while the costs of goods and services (excluding sandwiches and rent in the bay area) are much cheaper.
For people who've lived and worked on both continents, what are your thoughts?
[+] [-] ChuckNorris89|6 years ago|reply
Unless you work in a major(and expensive) tech hub and have skills that are scarce and in demand, income in tech everywhere else is not that much higher than any other boring office job unless you're a consultant on some niche thing.
So while you'll live a good life, you'll never hear stories like in the US of people in tech making enough money to buy a huge property or retire early unless they founded a successful startup that saw a good exit which is pretty rare.
[+] [-] rinkleby56|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mackey|6 years ago|reply
I travel to Europe a lot for work and its frustrating when you try and get a sandwich and its been sitting premade for a while, soggy bread, and its got a single slice of meat in it. Sure it may be a little cheaper, but compare that with sandwich you can get at Casa Razdora[1] or Bob's[2] and its not even close to as satisfying.
[1] https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/jDayx34LzPfip626pT1g... [2] https://hiddenboston.com/images/BobsDeluxItalian.jpg
[+] [-] bpyne|6 years ago|reply
If so, is that the biggest food in common for lunches between the US and Great Britain?
I tend to bring my lunch M-Th and get takeout on Friday. My takeout is almost always Thai. When I dine-in it's usually ramen. For them, I expect to pay $10-12. What are prices like for Thai or ramen in London?
[+] [-] timwaagh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] socialdemocrat|6 years ago|reply
US GDP is higher than Sweden, but workers tend to make more money in Sweden. In the US GDP is mainly distributed to the upper classes.
I think in Norway a McDonalds worker makes something like 2x-3x as much per hour as an American McDonalds worker.
[+] [-] pledg|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] learnstats2|6 years ago|reply
But, I also noticed that people take a full hour for lunch and get a sit-down meal.
Almost nobody local would have thought to go to Pret.
[+] [-] thinkingemote|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tonyedgecombe|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JSavageReal|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanhandley|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcguire|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bowlich|6 years ago|reply
Maybe the Lobster rolls are bigger?
[+] [-] ngngngng|6 years ago|reply
Maybe give the article a read?
[+] [-] sys_64738|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AstralStorm|6 years ago|reply
So a lot of it comes down to local positioning and some to marketing. Some to labor costs.
[+] [-] Thlom|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanhandley|6 years ago|reply
Supply and demand, I suppose.
[+] [-] falcongod082|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lanevorockz|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] defertoreptar|6 years ago|reply
Last I heard, Americans were being criticized for populism. Which is it?