Here's [1] a data graph of the Doppler curve from Dwingeloo Radio Telescope (based in Netherlands) showing the exact moment the probe crashed into the surface of the moon.
I apologize for not reading ALL 500+ Comments (stopped halfway as the politics and history took over). This may have been mentioned.
In some occasions when an event is being broadcast live, a 10-30-60 seconds delay is added to the signal "just in case".
Is there any chance that the Probe crashed on the moon and India's gov/space agency cut the feed while YouTube, live TV, etc. was on this +60 seconds?
I remember when the 3 of SpaceX rockets were doing the concurrent landing (2 at land, 1 at sea), the sea platform link had "a problem" and went down. Then miraculously once the situation was assessed another video surfaced from a nearby camera some time later and we saw that the rocket tilted and fell at sea.
With that said I hope all (peace driven) space exploration efforts go well and we end up with a Star Trek TNG society in 300-400 years.
Latest update... looks like they've found the location of the lander on the lunar surface, the orbiter has clicked a thermal image of the lander, and they're trying to establish a contact with it.
What do we think went wrong? I expect maths to be right but there was a comment somewhere about the regolith with fine particles whose specific composition could have caused unexpected dust clouds as the lander sped to the ground ... how was this tech different from the other 3 successes?
Those dust clouds, depending on particle size/composition, could start reflecting radar. Lander then gets confused about its altitude and crashes. This sort of thing makes some areas, the dusty flat ones, potentially more dangerous than others. But they are also flatter and so you don't worry about landing on a rock and tipping over. It's a judgement call.
This is a great thing for the people of India - I mean, hopefully.
The science we expel is a reflection of the cultures that created it. In space, everyone has had failures. And I hope this failure offers reflection and improvement and that they can grow from it.
But even still, this is otherwise part of a narrative change for the people of india, and something "so simple" can have a huge impact on future generations and what people tell themselves on an individual level.
This is a boring comment section. Only the top 40 comments are actually about the space mission. 130 comments respond to the same parent about a world government and the rest of the comments are flagged...
I personally am sad that this mission has failed. Exploring the permanently shadowed craters of the moon is necessary to find whatever sliver of ice remains on it. The satellite industry is growing but there is still no economic case for going to the moon and this mission could have changed that.
It's a good effort by ISRO and it's scientist. Just can't understand why so many countries reinventing the wheels. Space missions should be multi-country efforts continuously as it belongs to all. We should not extend our tribal nationalistic thinking to space.
Best scientist can be in any nation and more diverse the group and experience the better chances of success.
I know I am just dreaming, but hopefully we can come to consensus and try challenges of space as a new frontier as a single human race, originating from Africa.
No. We’re different groups of people with different interests, different values, different ideas principles cultures histories views of the world. It’s good for us to be competing to explore space (and in trying to develop technological advantages in general). For countries like India it’s critical to develop their own technologies on this front. Otherwise they’ll remain eternally dependent on America, etc., for access to space.
A “single human race” would be a deeply dysfunctional, unworkable mega-society. Our societies are already too big to be governable. (Ever notice how in Star Trek, aside from token, curated, differences, trillions of people are somehow almost completely culturally homogenous? That’s what makes the federation governable. But it would never work that way in real life. There would be intense conflict. The idea of a society that big being governable is part of the science fiction.)
When situation is out of hand, people suffer a lot.
MasterCard and Visa have stopped there services in several countries, in-order to be complaint with American law (Laws which are specifically made, to hurt certain countries).
When a Democratic government is controlling private companies, when needed let alone your suggestion of believing in government companies.
In 1999, during Kargil War (between India and Pakistan), it's an unexpected war from Indian side. When Indian government asked help from American government for GPS, they have outright denied it. When it's needed the most.
As a country we had our fair-share of setbacks from several countries, I think we need to learn from our mistakes and try to be independent.
In the need of the hour, every country/state/person has it's own preferences.
But the goals are different though, ISRO is less about grand exploratory projects and more about doing the little things and balance them with the commercial aspects of space. India is not a super rich country that can spare ISRO a large budget you know.
Eitherway, there's also some advantages from having competing organizations with different operating philosophies exploring space.
Should bes are tricky. At least historically, competitiveness & national pride have been good drivers. That usually meant big money national projects for the US and Russia. More recently it has meant affordable projects can be sold to smaller national governments. Israel & India both went this way recently. Both crashed their landers, but that might not be such a terrible thing.
There are also international efforts and private ones.
I like having multiple tools in the toolbox. They all seem to operate quite differently. ESA/NASA can do long horizon boundary projects and hard science. ISS can do hard science, and expand/internationalize the knowledge base. These small, one-off national projects can try out new (often low cost) designs and a "just because" rationales for missions. Private space is making great progress commodifying launches... Roscosmos has more room to play (currently, they sell seats on their vehicles), without having to support white elephant projects that compete with NASA's budget.
I'd say we're doing well, better than 10-20 years ago when the ISS had more of the "space pie," because space explorations is dispersed.
I definitely agree with the spirit of "earthlings unite" but I also like the plurality of space agencies. Hopefully, India is hooked and we'll see more from them.
No hate on international (or non national) projects though. Maybe Israel & India can combine forces for a 3rd mission. Both attempted a moon mission for around $100m. Both crashed their first attempt. If a 3rd mission succeeds we'll have a win for cooperation and we'll also have a proof of concept for affordable moon missions.
Space colonization is a wonderful opportunity to create unique civilizations, each pursuing their own destiny. Where does your sadistic desire to control the future of entire mankind come from?
Ability to choose different paths is far more appealing than suffering under some inescapable dystopian global diktat you have in mind. So yes, we should extend tribal thinking to space. Platitudes like "we are single human race" are as meaningful as saying we are all life.
In a world under one uniform system of tightly-integrated government or closely allied nations at the nearly the same economic and technological levels, one can certainly do this.
Otherwise, yes, you are right, it's a grand pipe dream. Will all the nations contribute equally in terms of technological, financial and expert human resources ?
Besides, tribal, nationalistic thinking is very good for competition and speeding technological progress. It is what took US and Russia to space in the first place. Nations and civilisations try ten times as as hard if they know someone is competing with them.
Imagine if the Russians today had a Space-X competitor...
>"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
It's mostly a matter of conspicuous consumption, aside from possible military applications and meager civilian technological advances.
While I agree that in the future we should strive to achieve this level of cultural cohesion, we're currently at a point where the incentive to do these things is largely motivated by technological needs by developing countries. As a result these countries gain experience in these fields that makes their research more relevant.
The space race is over, but it happened because the two most technologically advanced nations were competing for dominance that would essentially earn them the "world champion" title. That need to win the title is how we all got to space in under a decade.
Now smaller nations are competing for third and fourth place, and that's creating a technological revolution for them right now.
So think more long term. We've always been on the same team, but these are pre-season practices where we're all split into subteams and pit against each other to determine the roster. USA and Russia are first string. China and India are competing for second string.
When the season starts and were all wearing the same colors; we'll be unstoppable.
Kudos to India for even trying. While they are trying to put a probe on the moon, we have a President going through dementia arguing about a 2 week old weather forecast.
1 in 8 households in America was food insecure in 2017 [1]. Do you think it's justified to spend 20 billion dollars on NASA when America can't even provide food security to each of its residents, and reports of crumbling infrastructure from all corners of the country, from collapsing bridges to cracking dams speak the sorrow tale of construction quality in what is supposed to be a 1st world country?
The budget is tiny compared to national welfare schemes. India's remote sensing satellites have helped countless farmers as well. Not to mention the inspiration it gives to future generations.
Every country with a space program has its issues and underfunded social welfare programs. This should not stand in the way of innovation. Having indigenously developed space technology offers India a unique strategic advantage especially when it's achievements have come at a fraction of the cost of other programs (Mangalyaan for example).
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
If your comment might contain flamebait, please edit it until it clearly doesn't.
[+] [-] abhiminator|6 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1170072672266592256
[+] [-] mkagenius|6 years ago|reply
Edit: I meant contact with ISRO..
[+] [-] jcims|6 years ago|reply
Good view here: https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1170069055140765700?s=21
[+] [-] baybal2|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kappi|6 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/dsn_status/status/1170391223040954368
DSS 54 carrier lock on Chandrayaan-2 Lander Frequency: 2.2846GHz Signal strength: -143dBm IDLE OFF 1 TURBO
[+] [-] adt2bt|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kappi|6 years ago|reply
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-isro...
[+] [-] HenryBemis|6 years ago|reply
In some occasions when an event is being broadcast live, a 10-30-60 seconds delay is added to the signal "just in case".
Is there any chance that the Probe crashed on the moon and India's gov/space agency cut the feed while YouTube, live TV, etc. was on this +60 seconds?
I remember when the 3 of SpaceX rockets were doing the concurrent landing (2 at land, 1 at sea), the sea platform link had "a problem" and went down. Then miraculously once the situation was assessed another video surfaced from a nearby camera some time later and we saw that the rocket tilted and fell at sea.
With that said I hope all (peace driven) space exploration efforts go well and we end up with a Star Trek TNG society in 300-400 years.
[+] [-] Trias11|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JulianMorrison|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rajeevw|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nikhil5|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] raverbashing|6 years ago|reply
Nonetheless, this is rocket science and failures are very common and not unexpected. Too bad, but it happens.
[+] [-] egdod|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] happy-go-lucky|6 years ago|reply
Don't know how reliable this source is:
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1170610654232731648
[+] [-] plibither8|6 years ago|reply
From the ISRO Chief himself: https://twitter.com/KailasavadivooS/status/11706129755828879...
[+] [-] brij0102|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandworm101|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mzs|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meesterdude|6 years ago|reply
The science we expel is a reflection of the cultures that created it. In space, everyone has had failures. And I hope this failure offers reflection and improvement and that they can grow from it.
But even still, this is otherwise part of a narrative change for the people of india, and something "so simple" can have a huge impact on future generations and what people tell themselves on an individual level.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] imtringued|6 years ago|reply
I personally am sad that this mission has failed. Exploring the permanently shadowed craters of the moon is necessary to find whatever sliver of ice remains on it. The satellite industry is growing but there is still no economic case for going to the moon and this mission could have changed that.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] brentis|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonsh|6 years ago|reply
Best scientist can be in any nation and more diverse the group and experience the better chances of success.
I know I am just dreaming, but hopefully we can come to consensus and try challenges of space as a new frontier as a single human race, originating from Africa.
[+] [-] rayiner|6 years ago|reply
A “single human race” would be a deeply dysfunctional, unworkable mega-society. Our societies are already too big to be governable. (Ever notice how in Star Trek, aside from token, curated, differences, trillions of people are somehow almost completely culturally homogenous? That’s what makes the federation governable. But it would never work that way in real life. There would be intense conflict. The idea of a society that big being governable is part of the science fiction.)
[+] [-] nilsocket|6 years ago|reply
MasterCard and Visa have stopped there services in several countries, in-order to be complaint with American law (Laws which are specifically made, to hurt certain countries).
When a Democratic government is controlling private companies, when needed let alone your suggestion of believing in government companies.
In 1999, during Kargil War (between India and Pakistan), it's an unexpected war from Indian side. When Indian government asked help from American government for GPS, they have outright denied it. When it's needed the most.
As a country we had our fair-share of setbacks from several countries, I think we need to learn from our mistakes and try to be independent.
In the need of the hour, every country/state/person has it's own preferences.
[+] [-] ryloric|6 years ago|reply
Eitherway, there's also some advantages from having competing organizations with different operating philosophies exploring space.
[+] [-] dalbasal|6 years ago|reply
There are also international efforts and private ones.
I like having multiple tools in the toolbox. They all seem to operate quite differently. ESA/NASA can do long horizon boundary projects and hard science. ISS can do hard science, and expand/internationalize the knowledge base. These small, one-off national projects can try out new (often low cost) designs and a "just because" rationales for missions. Private space is making great progress commodifying launches... Roscosmos has more room to play (currently, they sell seats on their vehicles), without having to support white elephant projects that compete with NASA's budget.
I'd say we're doing well, better than 10-20 years ago when the ISS had more of the "space pie," because space explorations is dispersed.
I definitely agree with the spirit of "earthlings unite" but I also like the plurality of space agencies. Hopefully, India is hooked and we'll see more from them.
No hate on international (or non national) projects though. Maybe Israel & India can combine forces for a 3rd mission. Both attempted a moon mission for around $100m. Both crashed their first attempt. If a 3rd mission succeeds we'll have a win for cooperation and we'll also have a proof of concept for affordable moon missions.
[+] [-] emanreus|6 years ago|reply
Ability to choose different paths is far more appealing than suffering under some inescapable dystopian global diktat you have in mind. So yes, we should extend tribal thinking to space. Platitudes like "we are single human race" are as meaningful as saying we are all life.
[+] [-] lenkite|6 years ago|reply
Otherwise, yes, you are right, it's a grand pipe dream. Will all the nations contribute equally in terms of technological, financial and expert human resources ?
Besides, tribal, nationalistic thinking is very good for competition and speeding technological progress. It is what took US and Russia to space in the first place. Nations and civilisations try ten times as as hard if they know someone is competing with them.
Imagine if the Russians today had a Space-X competitor...
[+] [-] Merrill|6 years ago|reply
It's mostly a matter of conspicuous consumption, aside from possible military applications and meager civilian technological advances.
[+] [-] zelon88|6 years ago|reply
The space race is over, but it happened because the two most technologically advanced nations were competing for dominance that would essentially earn them the "world champion" title. That need to win the title is how we all got to space in under a decade.
Now smaller nations are competing for third and fourth place, and that's creating a technological revolution for them right now.
So think more long term. We've always been on the same team, but these are pre-season practices where we're all split into subteams and pit against each other to determine the roster. USA and Russia are first string. China and India are competing for second string.
When the season starts and were all wearing the same colors; we'll be unstoppable.
[+] [-] nithinm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] la6470|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gingabriska|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] williesleg|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] agrippanux|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] org3432|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
This one is a classic flamewar tangent that has happened countless times, leads nowhere good, and is quite off topic.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20900411
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20900396
[+] [-] kinkrtyavimoodh|6 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.feedingamerica.org/about-us/press-room/new-data
[+] [-] mav3rick|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] axaydeshraj|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mav3rick|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sanguy|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] ironfootnz|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html