Repo companies have passively scanned & uploaded locations of 9B license plates

[tomatotomato37]

I think the scariest part of is in the first part of this; the collection of data was voluntarily crowdsourced by repo men all acting as independent actors. While right now there is still a centralized corporation that can be targeted to stop the practice, I can see a future where this stuff becomes decentralized in the same lieu as software piracy sites and their infrastructure is done today, maintained by "helpful" repomen/investigators that each have a pervasive interest in maintaining such a resource.

[ThrustVectoring]

The fundamental problem is that technology has made collecting this information too cheap. Instead of manual entry and uploads, it's automated with essentially zero marginal cost over and above putting the cameras on cars or buildings.

The solution is to make license plate collection expensive again - allow people to install license plate covers that people can manually lift to read the plate and automatically retract when the car is started.

[kjs3]

Yes, and such 'crowdsourced' decentralized sites will suffer the same bit-rot as all the other ones, and we'll see all sorts of outrages caused because 5 years ago or whatever a bad actor lived at such and such an address, but the "helpful" repomen/investigators never updated things, and we'll that's just too bad and if you shut down our database everyone will steal a car and won't someone think of the children and (this is the only part I completely, 100% guarantee) no "helpful" person will take a single shred of responsibility for any collateral damage.

[johnohara]

I saw an ALPS vehicle a few months back in the parking lot of a local Wal-Mart (AZ). It was rolling slowly up and down the aisles searching for what at first I presumed was a parking spot closer to the front doors.

Closer inspection revealed it's true nature. Mounted on the trunk lid were four cameras, two on each side, angled slightly downward.

The vehicle was an old piece of sht Ford Crown Vic P71 with white doors, black body, black rims, rusted spotlight, and slightly visible police decal adhesive. The kind you purchase at government auction for $750. It looked like something Reevers would use as a daily driver.

Certainly not as classy as a Google Maps car, but apparently getting the job done because parked in the outer lot was a shiny-new, jet-black, "deluxe" companion tow truck with chrome rims and full stealthiness -- waiting for a hit.

[the_watcher]

As someone pointed out below, the entire purpose of license plates is to easily track and identify cars. There's no reason to require the outward display of a license plate otherwise. In fact, there's already a more accurate and up to date piece of information that isn't required to be displayed: your registration card.

I'd never seriously thought about this until reading this story, probably because they've been ubiquitous for decades and as a little kid I loved seeing the different state versions, but I'm surprised that I've never come across a serious discussion about the privacy implications and whether or not it's Constitutional (if it's been addressed, would love a pointer to the case). It doesn't seem like a huge logical leap from the idea of digital anonymity.

[mrlala]

>privacy implications

I think you voluntarily giving up a certain amount of privacy when you choose to drive on the road. Sure yes you can argue most places you don't really have a choice since you need a car. But then I could argue back- if you value that type of privacy SO MUCH then you can choose to move to an area where you can walk or use public transportation.

I just think this is one of those times where the pros heavily outweigh the cons. Criminals and people who should not be on the road can be way more easily tracked with license plates. I can't really think of a situation where I would care that someone is passively recording my plate location as I drive by?

Also what if you are illegally parked somewhere. How is an officer supposed to issue you a ticket without your plates?

[dvtrn]

whether or not it's Constitutional (if it's been addressed, would love a pointer to the case)

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2014/14-144

An interesting one, that's close, but still interesting on the merits.

[wavepruner]

Those interested in this issue will definitely want to check out Grassland. It's basically a blockchain project to democratize video surveillance. http://grassland.network

"Grassland is a self-organizing , self-sustaining and self-correcting, anonymous network of AI software that quickly and cheaply turns any 2D video feed from any single-perspective camera into live 3D models and can organize data captured from millions of cameras around the world into a real-time, secure, global simulation. It lets humans view the world in a manner like the games SimCity® or Civilization®[1] and lets machines internalize, understand and interact intuitively with the real world."

Previous Hacker News discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19529921

[exhilaration]

A word of advice for those of you that live in the 19 states that don't require a front license: always back into parking spots to make it difficult or impossible to read your plates. There are other good reasons (like increased safety) for backing into parking spots and keeping your travel history private is just one of them.

[AdamJacobMuller]

Here in NJ, its required but I rarely have one. My Audi A6 didn't come stock with a front plate holder (and honestly wasn't aesthetically designed for one) so didn't have one for its 3-year lease. I was never pulled over for it.

I removed the front plate off my Wrangler to install a winch and haven't been pulled over yet.

I do prefer to back into parking spots, but I'm curious why you think it increases safety?

[luckydata]

don't back into parking spots that are right in front of an apartment window or the entrance of a store though, you'll be piping escape gases in people's faces, especially with a truck.

[_verandaguy]

To clarify: the DRN database contains 9B _scans_ of license plates, not scans of 9B license plates.

[carapace]

Privacy is dead because technology enables ubiquitous surveillance and economics and politics drive it to the limit.

I don't like it and I'm not advocating it, but the question of what a truly, deeply post-privacy society will be like is fascinating.

A very important question is whether or not the administrators of the system were subject to it as well.

[rdtwo]

This would be an interesting database to play with. Using the data here you could backtrack where all the customers in a business live and work. Or you could go forward and figure out where all the people in an area shop. You can do the same with google maps and Apple data but idk if that info would be accessible

[neaden]

If by interesting you mean horrifying then yes. Let's be clear, tracking people this way potentially gives you information about their job, religion, health status, clubs, friends, romantic relationships, and family members. It is a massive data liability, comparable to the credit score companies.

[samfriedman]

That was my first thought: I'd be surprised if hedge funds don't already ingest this tracking data for their analytics.

[zachguo]

Once I asked a company how they calculated the conversion rate of a billboard ad, I was told they got data from smart billboards reading car plates and linking them to people's online presence.

[qqn]

Wow okay, that's terrifying. Especially since it's so passive!

[cwkoss]

Is it legal to hide your car's license plate while the car is not in motion? Seems like a 'privacy shutter' that deploys when the car is turned off could be a useful feature.

[rootusrootus]

I think it varies by jurisdiction. For example, Oregon requires plates to be visible on any vehicle being operated on public roads, which might be interpreted as excluding parked cars (assuming that taking up parking space does not constitute operation). But the city of Portland has an ordinance specifically requiring parked cars to have visible plates.

[joering2]

A story of repo cars driving and scanning tags has been seen on HN first time many years ago. Meanwhile a buddy of mine works for a "secret" company that has cars driving around ten most criminal infested cities (such as Detroit) and mass-scanning people's faces behind mirror glass. A single car in a busy city is able to scan over 25,000 people daily. This info is later fed into the system and usual clients are Sheriff offices and bounty hunters. I wish someone like VICE did the story on it, but my buddy only showed me screen shoots, no company name, nothing.

In 2019 you cannot assume you have any sort of privacy once you leave your door step, literally.

[sp332]

In NH we banned automated license plate readers (ALPRs), including private use and law enforcement ones. I think this option will get more popular, like SF banning certain facial recognition scanners.

[eigenloss]

Out him. You won't.

[donclark]

Because of this problem, do we have recourse now to hide license plates until requested by law enforcement? Is there an opportunity for us to update (change) the old law?

[dbg31415]

Anyone else feel like paying for everything in cash again? This is so creepy, and it's nothing compared to the data cell phone companies and credit card companies have on you.

[cproctor]

I've wondered whether cash serial numbers are scanned at ATMS and bank deposits. The metadata could be quite informative.

[moltar]

Another reason to take a bus ;)

[timtu7]

Is it legal to build such systems? What if tomorrow someone will decide to replace the government with a private system like this? We've done something like that in the area of finance, with cryptocurrencies.

[heisenbit]

Not legal in Europe.

[codeddesign]

This is just taking “politically correct” to far. It’s like saying “Firemen” or “one small step for man..”. The context of “man” or “men” is obviously “person” or “people”

[mark-ruwt]

Good catch. Updated.