I run 300 forums, and I had a startup for them. The lofty goal of the startup was to "cure loneliness" but I never told the users that.
My path to doing this was to encourage interest based communication, in a way that would allow them to take it offline. How? Well to make it interest + geography, i.e. horology nerds in Cumbria, cyclists in London, petrol heads in Cornwall, audiophiles in Suffolk.
By binding together an interest, and a geography, it naturally encourages trade, showing off, having a beer... and coming together. But not in a way that ever was to "cure loneliness" (which few people admit to feeling, and frankly most people find lonely people unattractive people from the perspective of wishing to hang out with someone like that).
By providing a space to share a passion, the forums brought people together.
I had to make our own software to achieve this, i.e. a forum with events built-in by default, etc. But it worked.
Except I couldn't get it funded beyond the crowd-funded angel round :shrug . But still, 250k monthly users, hundreds of marriages, tens of thousands of friendships, and still people meeting weekly for beer and chatting with others.
And like all love, when the lust is gone what remains is something special... these forums are evolving now, from the original interests, into just a group of friends for life.
If I were lonely today, I would say... identify a hobby or interest you could get into, start looking for entry things to dive in, and then look for groups on MeetUp, or forums online, that will help you find other people.
This is awesome. I've long felt a nostalgia for the close-knit forums I participated in as a kid. One was a worldwide group centered around an online game (CyberNations), the other was just a group of kids with similar interests in one metro area who met up occasionally. Both were vital for me in coping with feeling like I didn't fit in at all at school.
It's great to see that that kind of close, friendly, personal Internet dynamic didn't completely die with Facebook's rise.
When I was an awkward teenager with no social skills, one of the places I found a social ingroup was on a video game forum on AOL. Roughly the same group of mostly teenage boys posted to this forum for 2-3 years before we all gradually moved off AOL. But we would later reconnect through Facebook and I still consider these guys good friends of mine even though I've maybe only met 2 of them in person.
I feel like it would be appropriate to share some of these forums in this thread, I think the immediate need outweighs anyone calling it out as self-promotion.
As a man is pretty damn hard keeping friends after the age of 30, especially if you happen to go trough a divorce when suddenly more than half (if not more) of your friends get to “choose” the other side. Yeah, you get to ask your friends back from high-school or college out for a beer but chances are they’re also in a middle of a divorce or they’re too busy with family requirements (can’t blame them) or too stressed out because of work reasons. And then there are all those friends who have moved town or even country. All in all things are not so easy.
An important post-30 strategy that I use is to assume that all friends with children are prisoners in their own home. You know exactly where they are. You know they don't have plans. They are desperate for adult conversation. That means you can invite yourself over, bring takeout, and basically make their day. I'm coupled but this should work as a single.
Our parent friends say it's actually easier to be friends with child-free people because they don't have the complications of arranging around the kids. We arrive just as the kids are going to bed so that we can say a perfunctory hello and then usually leave by 10:30p.
I sometimes wonder if I’m broken when I see comments like yours, which seem heartfelt and correct and as it should be (the desire for friendships that is). Maybe it’s because my wife and kids fill the void, but I just have no interest in making or maintaining friendships. My wife has a really cool coworker that tries to get me out of the house but i just kinda flop on him. I live in a secluded spot that you can’t see from the road and work from home 95% of the time.
I see it in my youngest daughter as well, and I do worry for her and am applying gentle pressure to get her to socialize...but I’m pretty much good to go. Maybe things will change down the road but I’m in my mid 40’s sooo.
I moved to another country at the age of 30, which meant the number of friends I had dropped to 0.
What worked for me was starting dancing tango, where I built a newer, better and larger network than the one I previously had. I guess this can apply to any social activity where you can interact with people, be it social dancing or coocking classes.
The unsettling thing is how normal your comment makes divorce sound, and how much statistics back that up. As if it's just a thing that is an expected part of life.
People need to stop getting married, or at least not so early. Marriage is a very intensive (and rewarding) commitment that I think most modern people cannot make. Instead, foster relationships that matter for as long as they matter.
I was in a serious relationship from 19-25. These things end because people change a lot in those years. We both graduated and went in different directions. Which I think is perfectly fine. Relationships will change. You can absolutely start new ones. Join pretty much any club that meets in person. Commit time to those who enrich your life, cut loose those who harm it.
Even without going through a divorce it's hard. Most of my friends over the years and I have mostly lost touch other than happy birthdays and the occasional 'hey what's going on? We should hang out some time when we're both not busy' But, understandably, people are tired or busy with things and it never really works out. My coworker's lives are all pretty different from mine. Either they're young, early 20's and I can't really relate to them and they're doing their thing or they're older and spend their time with their families. I've tried making friends online in different places, it sort of ends up being the same though, you talk for a while frequently, then you both get busy or whatever.
I moved to Japan when I was 39 and because I decided to stay here, it basically meant losing all my close friends (well, they are still friends, of course -- but it's not a "Let's hang out on a Wednesday night" type of friendship anymore).
When I first moved to Japan, I spent a lot of time trying to make friends. Because there are a lot of lonely expats, I found it easy to do. However, there was one thing that I didn't really take into account: the main thing we had in common was loneliness.
Over time, the relationships didn't work out. I even had some really bizarre (and extremely troubling) experiences with people denouncing and shunning me because I decided to adopt Japanese culture (apparently a betrayal of my original culture and appropriation of my adopted culture -- some people really are seriously screwed up.... :-( ).
What I realised was that when I was young, because the population of potential friends is large, I could choose friends who liked me for who I was. When I moved to this new population, the only potential friends I had (especially with my lack of Japanese language skill at the time) were being picked out of a population of lonely people. Most of them didn't care about me. Some of them even hated me (even the idea of me was repugnant to them). It is seriously weird to have "friends" that hate you.
Being alone is definitely better than being in an abusive relationship, IMHO (though it takes quite a lot of effort to see this). I realised that it was virtually impossible for me to find real friends the way I had been approaching it. It was best to just hang out with people I enjoyed and to stay away from people I didn't enjoy -- even if that meant being alone.
It can be tough, but really I think the secret is to just fill your life with activities that you enjoy and that bring you closer to other people with similar interests. Eventually you will happen to meet someone who is in a similar place to you. But if not, at least you are having a good time in the process.
I think this can be a cultural phenomenal, and what culture enforces who or how we ought to act at a certain age. I've traveled a lot in Europe. And it is amazing different kinds interesting people you meet. It makes movies and netflix boring.
I find people there tend to maintain more close relationship male and female. I person know someone way beyond his 30's, have many many groups of close personal male and female friends. He once told me that having these close relationship and maintaining them has tremendously improved his quality of his life and it is something he would NOT trade for any amount of money in the world.
The idea that one must marry at certain age have career at certain age is insane. Do what you like when you want to do it. Timing is important.
I see why friends who are busy with family would not have time to go out, but those in the middle of a divorce should be prime material for drowning a few beers together.
I think part of the problem is that social media, and Facebook in particular, has cheapened the meaning of the word "friend."
I see people on HN all the time saying that they have better friends far away via social media than they have in their own neighborhoods and offices. It's popular inside the tech bubble to believe that digital communication is as good or better than real communication, but it isn't.
That's a lesson one of my family members is learning right now, and the rest of us by proxy.
She was walking to work one day and got run over by a car. Living in a different state, 1,300 miles from her family, she didn't bother making new friends because she could still communicate digitally with the people already in her online relationship cloud.
But where are they in her time of need? When she needs actual friends, not social media friends? None of her Facebook "friends" are going to go to her apartment and bring clean underwear and toiletries to her in the hospital. None of her Twitter followers are going to move her car so she doesn't accumulate tickets over the next six months when the street sweepers and snow plows come. None of her Instagram people are coming to see her, to comfort her, to see how she's doing and just talk to her during visiting hours.
When she regained the use of one hand, she started looking at social media again, and realized it is all so hollow. Talk, platitudes, and shameless self-promotion does not make a real relationship.
When she comes out of this, I hope she realizes the value of real human-to-human connections. But because she's as addicted to social media as the companies want her to be, I believe she will relapse into the void of fake friendships once again.
I'm not sure I buy your explanation at all. Social media may make distant friends feel closer, but I don't think this explains the lack of close friends. I understand that this is a data point of 1, but this article and the HN comments all ring true to me, and I hardly ever use social media.
Most of my not very close friends also don't use social media. A friend of mine tried creating a group on facebook to help coordinate social events for a group of dads and almost universally the wives ended up RSVPing for their respective husband.
When we ended up getting together we ended up talking about work and our houses and all the different things we're doing. Men have a tendency to communicate differently (IMO society has trained us to do so) than women. When my wife gets together with her friends they talk about how they're feeling about things and their relationships. This leads to men having a tendency to have more superficial relationships.
Can’t find it right now, but I recall some research showing that friendship for men is basically with whatever other men you’re around the most. If you’re a man and want more friends, you probably need to get a new job. Or make a long-term commitment to showing up to the same place where other men are also committed to showing up (AA meetings, church, sports team, etc). Or just be friends with the husbands of your wife’s friends.
The good news is you don’t need a sparkling wit or anything, you just have to show up.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned: 'Friends' in your teens and twenties are often really about having someone to hang around with while looking for a mate. So you won't look like a lone loser at the club, or in social situations, or so that you get to meet members of the opposite/preferred sex through the group.
Once people get married and have kids, all of that falls away, and so do the 'friends'. You don't hook up with new people, because either they want partners to ride shotgun with them while hunting for a mate, or they are set up too. What's left are people you have a real connection with, usually people you were friends with since you were kids, and those few family members you can stand being around. For many, that is a small to non-existing group. What's left is your wife and kids, and honestly? The best company there is, IMHO. And I am not worried about what I will do when the kids leave and my wife divorces me, silly me.
> One thing I haven't seen mentioned: 'Friends' in your teens and twenties are often really about having someone to hang around with while looking for a mate. So you won't look like a lone loser at the club, or in social situations, or so that you get to meet members of the opposite/preferred sex through the group.
I have never thought of my friends that way. Nor have I ever met someone who gave me the impression they thought of their friends that way. Maybe not everyone thinks life revolves around "looking for a mate"?
I can attest that I had a couple of such friends. I didn’t realize it at the time but once you get a girlfriend, they just fall away (I didn’t analyze as to why but fall away they do).
I do think fondly of some of them. I’m grateful for having met them and for all the fun.
Here's an easy solution guys - make friends with more women.
A couple years ago my wife asked for a divorce (we are still married but separated). It was very much a wake up call that I was very dependent upon her emotionally and I had neglected my other friendships. I did two things. I invested myself in some old friends from high school and college, but as none of them are living in my city, I realized that I really needed to invest in new friends.
Several friends that I did have were runners, and they suggested that I join one or two local running clubs which I did. I wasn't and am still not a "runner", but now I have so many friends I don't know what to do with myself. I am I'm as happy as I've ever been in terms of having friends with whom to socialize. There are presumably clubs like that in every city. Obviously would help to be a runner, but like I said, I am not. I run for social reasons not because I enjoy it.
Another interesting thing with socializing in middle-age is that 4/5 of my friends now are women. I think that's because women make better friends. They are more outgoing. They are more emotionally aware. They're more willing to invest in friendships. I think guy friendships are harder because of social expectations of of what a male friendship is - especially if like me you don't enjoy drinking or spectator sports.
Sorry, I know this will trigger some folks, but this is exactly why I never understood the backlash against "toxic masculinity" that I see from (male) friends whenever the term comes up. Who said it's supposed to be toxic only for others?
Being a stereotypically "manly" man would prevent me in particular from expressing some of the things that make me feel the least lonely, from simple things like cooking and being proud of having made some simple art or handicraft, to hugging friends when I feel down, or being able to vent frustration, fear and other negative feelings in a non-violent way. And I'm not even marginalized by any means. Straight white European tech bro, really.
In essence, if I felt bound to any common stereotype of "Man: as seen on TV" I'd be barred from having meaningful connections with those I call friends.
This is the post I've finally decided to start an alt HN account for.
I'm one of those men with no close friends. Or any friends, for what it's worth. I've had a few people in my life that I had very good friendships at a time, but all of them now live very far and we don't maintain any contact.
I'm married and my wife covers all my emotional needs. While I realize how dysfunctional such state of affairs is, I just can't bring myself to approach new people. Every time I'm in even remotely social situation, all I wanna do is to go home and be alone most of the time.
Even when I do find people with similar interests, I never pursue the connection and follow up. I do realize that total lack of social exposure makes me a dull, boring person and forming connections will become even more difficult as time goes by.
I just switched from a job where I could work from home anytime I wanted (which meant everyone on my team did so 100% of the time) to a job that requires everyone to be in the office 90% of the time because I want more face-to-face human interaction in my life. The convenience was great but, on the whole, it made me less happy.
I only see a couple mentions of religious organizations, but it's worth pointing out that churches and other religious organizations put an enormous amount of effort into making meaningful friendships convenient and healthy, including casual events, lectures, classes, study groups, and group volunteer activities. I'm not positive that the amount of attention given men in particular is comparable to children, women, couples, or families, but it's common enough to be normal to have men-specific activities, groups, and events.
Point being, church participation rates are much lower for men (ironically so, when men are out in men-filled bars looking for female companionship). I believe men leave (or don't try) churches thinking there was/is nothing for them, and then struggle with isolation and lack of respect.
Of course, churches themselves have a lot of work to do to actually incorporate these realities into their teaching and culture. It's more common for churches to treat men as extra flawed or lazy instead of unaware of these problems.
One of the big problems I find is that when I call or text my male friends they often fail to respond. My female friends always respond. I've had multiple discussions with my male friends about this and my conclusion is that they are mostly overwhelmed with the responsibilities and demands of being a modern man. Friendship falls low on the priority list. I, like many men, want more camaraderie but it takes work that's difficult to commit to.
Decades ago three people independently said to me, "I've known you a long time but I don't feel I know the real you." I saw I was the common element so decided to change.
I learned social and emotional skills, which took years of social and emotional work. It didn't cost time or money, but since I was used to intellectual learning, I often felt hopeless, confused, and other emotions I'd never felt from learning. Most things I tried didn't work, but some did and I kept at it.
After a few years I found myself saying how nearly all my relationships after that work were better than nearly any relationship before -- with friends, family, girlfriends, coworkers.
I've concluded that the problem wasn't my work situation or social structures, but that no one taught me social and emotional skills of self-awareness and relationships. In the past, we learned them through things like sports, arts, free play, and other performance-based activities -- the things schools increasingly cut in favor of things amenable to standardized tests. I don't mean art history or art appreciation, but creating and expressing yourself where others will judge your painting, recital, stage performance, etc and you learn to handle it. Nor do I mean sports where adults control everything, but challenging yourself to improve, recovering from loss and failure, etc.
My publisher framed my book Leadership Step by Stephttps://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Step-Become-Person-Others/... as a business book, since it will probably sell more that way, but it's the book version of the course I teach at NYU to develop these skills. My point is anyone can learn social and emotional skills. When you do, relationships improve and increase in number when you want. People who do the exercises consistently tell me they thought they couldn't learn these things, especially not in a classroom. I felt that way when I learned them. I wish I'd learned them as a child, but it's never too late to learn them.
If you're an average single man the world hates you. The public considers you a liability that has to be written off in order to stay consistent and most people expect you to hurt them in some way.
I read here that loneliness is a significant problem for people in general within the modern world, and somewhat moreso for men. Headline seems a bit clickbaity, as the issue is clearly not exclusive, and the percentage difference relatively small.
Become an alcoholic... Join AA.. Boom!!! More friends than you can imagine :)
In all seriousness... I hear this all the time in the rooms... loneliness is a killer. What's crazy is I have a sponsee, who specifically wanted to get sober cause the loneliness was driving him insane. Any reason to get sober and stay is a good reason in my book.
I recently got married in my 30s, and I had a difficult time choosing who to be my groomsmen, because while I do have quite a few people I could call good friends, I no longer had anyone stick out that I could really call a "close" friend or a "best" friend.
We get together and mostly do activities, like play games or watch movies or go out to eat, and we will help each other out if someone needs it, but I don't really feel too comfortable opening up to them emotionally (well, nothing super personal at least).
I don't really feel lonely, and can talk about most things with my spouse, but I miss having alternate opinions on things.
I especially miss when I had like 20 people on instant messenger that I could have private conversations with on any given evening like I did 20 years ago, because it seems like no one does that anymore, at least not my age. Or at least it seems harder for me to find those people, at least.
Facebook Messenger has the problem where everyone is always online but you can't tell if they're online because they want to chat or online because they're checking their news feed.
I sometimes feel guilty having the few friends I do, because I feel I can never give them enough time, between work and family commitments.
Work is the easy one - it’s easy to say “I’m done working today because I want to spend more time with my family”. It’s not so easy to say “I’m done with family time today because I want to spend more time with my friends”. I’m conditioned to feel selfish at such thoughts.
The article states 18% of men had no close friends, significantly higher than women at 12%. Honestly that’s doesn’t sound hugely different to me. For every two women with none, there’s three men with none. The gap is a bit smaller for best friends too.
These trends are set in contrast to times when fraternal organizations provided a kind of social fabric that isn't the norm now.
For men who are recognizing that social isolation is a long term risk in their lives and want to do something about it, I heartily recommend looking into these organizations. They're a mixed bag, like anything, but a bunch of guys who can hold anything together for decades should make anyone's list of options to investigate.
I think Church and religion can also fill a similar role. As someone who isn't active in any religion, I notice that coworkers who are tend to have a lot of social activities and presumably friends as a result of their participation.
As a gay male, I often have an additional wrinkle - in the Masonic orders, Eagles, Elks, or Moose Lodge, I feel I would be the odd man out in these situation.
Good points. It seems like Knights of Columbus is one of the strongest today. Their membership is predicated on being Catholic and probably having some level of involvement with the associated church parish.
> The figures prompted charities to urge men to reach out by dedicating more time to hobbies and socialising in an attempt to stop hundreds of thousands living in isolation.
Rather than urge men, would it not make more sense to urge charities and hobby organizations to do out reach programs towards getting more men to join? It is what IT sector and the education system has been doing lately in order to increase minority numbers.
[+] [-] buro9|6 years ago|reply
My path to doing this was to encourage interest based communication, in a way that would allow them to take it offline. How? Well to make it interest + geography, i.e. horology nerds in Cumbria, cyclists in London, petrol heads in Cornwall, audiophiles in Suffolk.
By binding together an interest, and a geography, it naturally encourages trade, showing off, having a beer... and coming together. But not in a way that ever was to "cure loneliness" (which few people admit to feeling, and frankly most people find lonely people unattractive people from the perspective of wishing to hang out with someone like that).
By providing a space to share a passion, the forums brought people together.
I had to make our own software to achieve this, i.e. a forum with events built-in by default, etc. But it worked.
Except I couldn't get it funded beyond the crowd-funded angel round :shrug . But still, 250k monthly users, hundreds of marriages, tens of thousands of friendships, and still people meeting weekly for beer and chatting with others.
And like all love, when the lust is gone what remains is something special... these forums are evolving now, from the original interests, into just a group of friends for life.
If I were lonely today, I would say... identify a hobby or interest you could get into, start looking for entry things to dive in, and then look for groups on MeetUp, or forums online, that will help you find other people.
[+] [-] lolinder|6 years ago|reply
It's great to see that that kind of close, friendly, personal Internet dynamic didn't completely die with Facebook's rise.
[+] [-] chrisco255|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ben_jones|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NicoJuicy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacquesm|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] garmaine|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] azdacha|6 years ago|reply
Thanks a lot
[+] [-] abledon|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paganel|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tonystubblebine|6 years ago|reply
Our parent friends say it's actually easier to be friends with child-free people because they don't have the complications of arranging around the kids. We arrive just as the kids are going to bed so that we can say a perfunctory hello and then usually leave by 10:30p.
[+] [-] jcims|6 years ago|reply
I see it in my youngest daughter as well, and I do worry for her and am applying gentle pressure to get her to socialize...but I’m pretty much good to go. Maybe things will change down the road but I’m in my mid 40’s sooo.
[+] [-] DeusExMachina|6 years ago|reply
What worked for me was starting dancing tango, where I built a newer, better and larger network than the one I previously had. I guess this can apply to any social activity where you can interact with people, be it social dancing or coocking classes.
[+] [-] Waterluvian|6 years ago|reply
People need to stop getting married, or at least not so early. Marriage is a very intensive (and rewarding) commitment that I think most modern people cannot make. Instead, foster relationships that matter for as long as they matter.
I was in a serious relationship from 19-25. These things end because people change a lot in those years. We both graduated and went in different directions. Which I think is perfectly fine. Relationships will change. You can absolutely start new ones. Join pretty much any club that meets in person. Commit time to those who enrich your life, cut loose those who harm it.
[+] [-] grawprog|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikekchar|6 years ago|reply
When I first moved to Japan, I spent a lot of time trying to make friends. Because there are a lot of lonely expats, I found it easy to do. However, there was one thing that I didn't really take into account: the main thing we had in common was loneliness.
Over time, the relationships didn't work out. I even had some really bizarre (and extremely troubling) experiences with people denouncing and shunning me because I decided to adopt Japanese culture (apparently a betrayal of my original culture and appropriation of my adopted culture -- some people really are seriously screwed up.... :-( ).
What I realised was that when I was young, because the population of potential friends is large, I could choose friends who liked me for who I was. When I moved to this new population, the only potential friends I had (especially with my lack of Japanese language skill at the time) were being picked out of a population of lonely people. Most of them didn't care about me. Some of them even hated me (even the idea of me was repugnant to them). It is seriously weird to have "friends" that hate you.
Being alone is definitely better than being in an abusive relationship, IMHO (though it takes quite a lot of effort to see this). I realised that it was virtually impossible for me to find real friends the way I had been approaching it. It was best to just hang out with people I enjoyed and to stay away from people I didn't enjoy -- even if that meant being alone.
It can be tough, but really I think the secret is to just fill your life with activities that you enjoy and that bring you closer to other people with similar interests. Eventually you will happen to meet someone who is in a similar place to you. But if not, at least you are having a good time in the process.
[+] [-] wildduck|6 years ago|reply
I find people there tend to maintain more close relationship male and female. I person know someone way beyond his 30's, have many many groups of close personal male and female friends. He once told me that having these close relationship and maintaining them has tremendously improved his quality of his life and it is something he would NOT trade for any amount of money in the world.
The idea that one must marry at certain age have career at certain age is insane. Do what you like when you want to do it. Timing is important.
[+] [-] new2628|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reaperducer|6 years ago|reply
I see people on HN all the time saying that they have better friends far away via social media than they have in their own neighborhoods and offices. It's popular inside the tech bubble to believe that digital communication is as good or better than real communication, but it isn't.
That's a lesson one of my family members is learning right now, and the rest of us by proxy.
She was walking to work one day and got run over by a car. Living in a different state, 1,300 miles from her family, she didn't bother making new friends because she could still communicate digitally with the people already in her online relationship cloud.
But where are they in her time of need? When she needs actual friends, not social media friends? None of her Facebook "friends" are going to go to her apartment and bring clean underwear and toiletries to her in the hospital. None of her Twitter followers are going to move her car so she doesn't accumulate tickets over the next six months when the street sweepers and snow plows come. None of her Instagram people are coming to see her, to comfort her, to see how she's doing and just talk to her during visiting hours.
When she regained the use of one hand, she started looking at social media again, and realized it is all so hollow. Talk, platitudes, and shameless self-promotion does not make a real relationship.
When she comes out of this, I hope she realizes the value of real human-to-human connections. But because she's as addicted to social media as the companies want her to be, I believe she will relapse into the void of fake friendships once again.
[+] [-] lojack|6 years ago|reply
Most of my not very close friends also don't use social media. A friend of mine tried creating a group on facebook to help coordinate social events for a group of dads and almost universally the wives ended up RSVPing for their respective husband.
When we ended up getting together we ended up talking about work and our houses and all the different things we're doing. Men have a tendency to communicate differently (IMO society has trained us to do so) than women. When my wife gets together with her friends they talk about how they're feeling about things and their relationships. This leads to men having a tendency to have more superficial relationships.
[+] [-] viburnum|6 years ago|reply
The good news is you don’t need a sparkling wit or anything, you just have to show up.
[+] [-] the_rosentotter|6 years ago|reply
Once people get married and have kids, all of that falls away, and so do the 'friends'. You don't hook up with new people, because either they want partners to ride shotgun with them while hunting for a mate, or they are set up too. What's left are people you have a real connection with, usually people you were friends with since you were kids, and those few family members you can stand being around. For many, that is a small to non-existing group. What's left is your wife and kids, and honestly? The best company there is, IMHO. And I am not worried about what I will do when the kids leave and my wife divorces me, silly me.
[+] [-] namarie|6 years ago|reply
I have never thought of my friends that way. Nor have I ever met someone who gave me the impression they thought of their friends that way. Maybe not everyone thinks life revolves around "looking for a mate"?
[+] [-] mettamage|6 years ago|reply
I do think fondly of some of them. I’m grateful for having met them and for all the fun.
[+] [-] intrasight|6 years ago|reply
A couple years ago my wife asked for a divorce (we are still married but separated). It was very much a wake up call that I was very dependent upon her emotionally and I had neglected my other friendships. I did two things. I invested myself in some old friends from high school and college, but as none of them are living in my city, I realized that I really needed to invest in new friends.
Several friends that I did have were runners, and they suggested that I join one or two local running clubs which I did. I wasn't and am still not a "runner", but now I have so many friends I don't know what to do with myself. I am I'm as happy as I've ever been in terms of having friends with whom to socialize. There are presumably clubs like that in every city. Obviously would help to be a runner, but like I said, I am not. I run for social reasons not because I enjoy it.
Another interesting thing with socializing in middle-age is that 4/5 of my friends now are women. I think that's because women make better friends. They are more outgoing. They are more emotionally aware. They're more willing to invest in friendships. I think guy friendships are harder because of social expectations of of what a male friendship is - especially if like me you don't enjoy drinking or spectator sports.
[+] [-] black_puppydog|6 years ago|reply
Being a stereotypically "manly" man would prevent me in particular from expressing some of the things that make me feel the least lonely, from simple things like cooking and being proud of having made some simple art or handicraft, to hugging friends when I feel down, or being able to vent frustration, fear and other negative feelings in a non-violent way. And I'm not even marginalized by any means. Straight white European tech bro, really. In essence, if I felt bound to any common stereotype of "Man: as seen on TV" I'd be barred from having meaningful connections with those I call friends.
[+] [-] bloody-crow|6 years ago|reply
I'm one of those men with no close friends. Or any friends, for what it's worth. I've had a few people in my life that I had very good friendships at a time, but all of them now live very far and we don't maintain any contact.
I'm married and my wife covers all my emotional needs. While I realize how dysfunctional such state of affairs is, I just can't bring myself to approach new people. Every time I'm in even remotely social situation, all I wanna do is to go home and be alone most of the time. Even when I do find people with similar interests, I never pursue the connection and follow up. I do realize that total lack of social exposure makes me a dull, boring person and forming connections will become even more difficult as time goes by.
I don't know how to get out of this.
[+] [-] theferalrobot|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] humanrebar|6 years ago|reply
Point being, church participation rates are much lower for men (ironically so, when men are out in men-filled bars looking for female companionship). I believe men leave (or don't try) churches thinking there was/is nothing for them, and then struggle with isolation and lack of respect.
Of course, churches themselves have a lot of work to do to actually incorporate these realities into their teaching and culture. It's more common for churches to treat men as extra flawed or lazy instead of unaware of these problems.
[+] [-] jcoffland|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spodek|6 years ago|reply
I learned social and emotional skills, which took years of social and emotional work. It didn't cost time or money, but since I was used to intellectual learning, I often felt hopeless, confused, and other emotions I'd never felt from learning. Most things I tried didn't work, but some did and I kept at it.
After a few years I found myself saying how nearly all my relationships after that work were better than nearly any relationship before -- with friends, family, girlfriends, coworkers.
I've concluded that the problem wasn't my work situation or social structures, but that no one taught me social and emotional skills of self-awareness and relationships. In the past, we learned them through things like sports, arts, free play, and other performance-based activities -- the things schools increasingly cut in favor of things amenable to standardized tests. I don't mean art history or art appreciation, but creating and expressing yourself where others will judge your painting, recital, stage performance, etc and you learn to handle it. Nor do I mean sports where adults control everything, but challenging yourself to improve, recovering from loss and failure, etc.
My publisher framed my book Leadership Step by Step https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Step-Become-Person-Others/... as a business book, since it will probably sell more that way, but it's the book version of the course I teach at NYU to develop these skills. My point is anyone can learn social and emotional skills. When you do, relationships improve and increase in number when you want. People who do the exercises consistently tell me they thought they couldn't learn these things, especially not in a classroom. I felt that way when I learned them. I wish I'd learned them as a child, but it's never too late to learn them.
[+] [-] swiley|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wayoutthere|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guerrilla|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] holdenc|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ignoranceprior|6 years ago|reply
Who would hate me or expect me to hurt them solely because of my relationship status? And why?
Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
[+] [-] rtpg|6 years ago|reply
Like I barely know the marital/relationship status of people I talk to all the time!
Maybe I’m naive or lucky, but seriously anyone who’s making major value judgements on that point of information sounds like a not great person
[+] [-] buboard|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wiremaus|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thrownaway954|6 years ago|reply
In all seriousness... I hear this all the time in the rooms... loneliness is a killer. What's crazy is I have a sponsee, who specifically wanted to get sober cause the loneliness was driving him insane. Any reason to get sober and stay is a good reason in my book.
[+] [-] Gibbon1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cableshaft|6 years ago|reply
We get together and mostly do activities, like play games or watch movies or go out to eat, and we will help each other out if someone needs it, but I don't really feel too comfortable opening up to them emotionally (well, nothing super personal at least).
I don't really feel lonely, and can talk about most things with my spouse, but I miss having alternate opinions on things.
I especially miss when I had like 20 people on instant messenger that I could have private conversations with on any given evening like I did 20 years ago, because it seems like no one does that anymore, at least not my age. Or at least it seems harder for me to find those people, at least.
Facebook Messenger has the problem where everyone is always online but you can't tell if they're online because they want to chat or online because they're checking their news feed.
[+] [-] jl6|6 years ago|reply
Work is the easy one - it’s easy to say “I’m done working today because I want to spend more time with my family”. It’s not so easy to say “I’m done with family time today because I want to spend more time with my friends”. I’m conditioned to feel selfish at such thoughts.
[+] [-] throwaway66920|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] motohagiography|6 years ago|reply
For men who are recognizing that social isolation is a long term risk in their lives and want to do something about it, I heartily recommend looking into these organizations. They're a mixed bag, like anything, but a bunch of guys who can hold anything together for decades should make anyone's list of options to investigate.
[+] [-] fromMars|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aloha|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neverartful|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] belorn|6 years ago|reply
Rather than urge men, would it not make more sense to urge charities and hobby organizations to do out reach programs towards getting more men to join? It is what IT sector and the education system has been doing lately in order to increase minority numbers.