Four Years in Startups

[shellmayr]

The text really captured my attention. I've recently been struggling with whether or not tech and the modern internet are a force for good. I always enjoyed tinkering with hardware and software, and have been working in related jobs because it pays well and there are always interesting challenges to solve. But the societal shifts ongoing in Europe, the filter bubbles and breaking down of discourse, the xenophobia and the growing divide between large parts of society as well as the erosion of (local) media and the crisis of mental well-being among both adults and adolescents, which I feel are at least partly attributable to technological changes in the past ten years, have led me to think that maybe the most important thing for people right now may be spaces without technology, without personalization and just being confronted with the community of others. This does not seem like a problem solvable by the means of technology and makes me wonder whether I've spent my life learning about technology only to abandon it at some point.

Are there any good resources about what I call my "tech hangover" to navigate how to move on, maybe convert this education into something of societal value beyond screens? Or am I being too cynical about everything and in reality it's all much better than I'm seeing it? Open for anything here really, but struggling with the status quo.

[kirso]

It feels to me that overall people are quitting their corporate jobs and searching for meaningful and impactful things to do professionally. There are some movements which are trying to do something like AI for good, but it seems like generally people know that "something is not right"

[Isamu]

>whether or not tech and the modern internet are a force for good

People. Only people are a force for good or evil.

Tech is true neutral ... or maybe Chaotic Neutral.

[v64]

I don't have any good advice, but just wanted to say you're definitely not alone. I left the tech industry due to these feelings and observations.

[specialist]

My tech hangover started in 1989. Reading Psychology of Everyday Things and Technolopy helped me articulate my dissatisfaction, transmuted me from a technophile into a humanist.

I started some study groups (for geeks), started volunteering (tree hugger stuff, cancer survivor groups), got very activist / political. (Now experiencing a citizenship hangover. Oof.)

Hanging out with different cohorts is invigorating. Highly recommended.

[jonahbenton]

A beautifully written piece that brings to mind Alan Kay's statement that a change in perspective is worth 80 IQ points. The world would be much better off if tech could see itself from her vantagepoint.

Appearing on HN on a remarkable day in a remarkable era when notable women are forcing historic change with strength, courage, and a different perspective- it is likely this piece will just be a footnote. I hope it becomes more.

[staticautomatic]

Tech can see itself from her vantage point. It just refuses to acknowledge that it's looking at itself.

[undefined3840]

I share a very similar experience to the author, though somehow even a little more extreme, including working in an entry level role for a certain tech mafia, living through maybe half of the events detailed in the new Uber book, working for the family of the president’s son in law, and then working at an absolute dumpster fire of a crypto company.

Should probably write a book about it one day!

[askafriend]

You can write a blog. I think people would take interest in those kinds of stories.

[wespiser_2018]

There's nothing quite like being lied to!

[wespiser_2018]

Great write up! I really enjoy hearing this perspective. I think it's so easy to get wrapped up a big dream that we lose perspective into what's important. Treating people with respect and doing the right thing for the employees, customer, and owners. A lot of these mistakes can be tied to inexperience, and I wouldn't be surprised if the average age of VC invested founders goes up when money thins out!

[artsyca]

Couldn't have written it better myself, however the toxic element is when all these naive/entitled people make the same mistakes over and over and lead to people lives getting destroyed over and over again

[undefined3840]

The most incompetent founder/CEO I worked for had the most experience and was the oldest...

[ambivalents]

It's interesting you call out the three entities of employee, customer, and owner. I was just listening to a podcast about the failures of meritocracy[0], which mentions these discrete roles and how we've continued to neglect employees and their economic wellbeing.

[0] https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/e/64086...

[opportune]

I don’t understand why all these from-the-inside vignettes overplay all the stereotypes so much. I guess it has to do with making it more exciting and exotic for your readers

[clydethefrog]

I have a feeling they don't overplay it. Writers of the HBO comedy series 'Silicon Valley' shared they don't use all real life examples because they were 'too hacky'.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-silicon-v...

[v64]

I've sent this article around to my friends because it's one of the most accurate portrayals I've seen in mainstream media about the experiences I had working in tech. If you haven't encountered these types of personalities, consider yourself fortunate.

[zinodaur]

Eh, the "stereotypes" seemed pretty close to my experiences. Maybe we've just been working at the goofier startups.

[yifanl]

I'd attribute that to storytelling, there's not much interesting about expanding on the technical details, but there's plenty to embellish from the interactive moments.

[plinkplonk]

The Mixpanel (if that is the company being referred to, seems pretty obvious) CEO's callous firing of someone who asked for a raise, then threatening anyone who disagreed with this decision with termination is horrendous (if true).

[MaxfordAndSons]

Yea that scene was bonkers. Is that even legal, to demand resignation of an employee if they admit to disagreeing with a decision of yours? I hope I would have the courage to speak truth if I were ever put in that situation.

[aditya34]

"The employees tried to be the C.E.O’s friends, but we were not his friends. He shut down our ideas and belittled us in private meetings; he dangled responsibility and prestige, only to retract them inexplicably. We regularly brought him customer feedback, like dogs mouthing tennis balls, and he regularly ignored us. He was expensive to work for: at least two of my co-workers met with therapists to talk through their relationship with him."

This is Suhail Doshi, the former CEO of Mixpanel https://twitter.com/Suhail

This article is accurate but barely scratches the surface of how cruel he was to his employees.

[tomnipotent]

> A popular narrative about trolls was that they were just a bunch of lonely men in their parents’ basements, but this looked like a coördinated effort. The repository included e-mail templates and phone-call scripts. It was, my teammates agreed, unusual to see them so organized.

4chain raids provided automated software to assist in highly coordinated trolls - an email template seems like child's play compared to what the "best" trolls can pull. I experienced a raid running a business affiliated with Carson Daly, who made the "honest" mistake of appropriating a 4chan meme on his talk show. Had to shutdown the website and restore the database to the night before to get rid of all the child porn they were uploading to forums we hosted. Thanks for the memory, 4chan.

[hef19898]

This is some mean shit on so many levels.

[sixstringtheory]

Rarely do I get the uncanny feeling of someone else describing my experience or taking the words out of my mouth, but this one did it so, so well. Somewhere in between The Circle and Silicon Valley (the show).

I often think about walking away and working as a baker.

[nilkanthjp]

The companies, locations, and people referenced in this article are so thinly veiled I don't understand why they'd try to keep them anonymous at all?

[MFLoon]

I don't think they're claiming to actually anonymize them. Seems like it's just a stylistic choice to not affirmatively identify them.

[typpo]

To save the rest of you some trouble, the startups are Oyster ("e-books"), Mixpanel ("big data"), and Github ("open source").

[ambivalents]

While it was probably a legal decision, I actually liked how it worked on an artistic level. As a reader I was trying to piece it together myself. And it also left a feeling of, 'well, this is a specific company she is talking about, but at the same time could easily apply to dozens of others in the industry.'

[john_moscow]

So they can't sue back.

[KKKKkkkk1]

> On the train home, I leaned into Ian and recounted the interaction. What sexists, I said. How dare they be so dismissive, just because I was a woman—just because I did customer support and was considered nontechnical. Ian cringed and pulled me closer. “You’re not going to like this,” he said. “But you were trying to talk shit about self-driving cars with some of the first engineers ever to build one.”

I wonder who are these engineers who claimed to have built a self-driving car in 2013. Because we're in 2019 and self-driving cars still require two drivers to operate them.

[hobofan]

Limited-capability self-driving cars have existed for quite some time, like in the DARPA Grand Challenge[0]. One could definitely see the people who competed there as "some of the first people to ever build a self-driving car".

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge

[a_imho]

With the benefit of hindsight the shit talk was pretty spot on?

[glalonde]

Presumably early waymo. Ian probably worked for bot & dolly which was bought by Google.

[artsyca]

agile methodology -- first build a skateboard, then a scooter, then a bicycle then a Tesla -- they were probably building an MVP

ref: https://m.dotdev.co/the-agile-bicycle-829a83b18e7

[fitech]

Wow, this author actually wrote well enough for me to read the whole article. I usually drop out 1-2 paragraphs into these types of longer form stories. Good job and looking forward to reading more.

[homonculus1]

I think the key difference is that the headline doesn't bait and switch you with the promise of some deeply-buried lede. You're reading it in the first place because you're interested in the author's firsthand experience.

I normally detest long-form because I go into it wanting to discover a tricky horse-betting scheme, but then I have to sit through pages of what some guy's suit looked like and how he held his cigar as he sat down for lunch. This author has her priorities aligned and doesn't abuse or mislead the reader.

[atomashpolskiy]

TLDR: Founders are arrogant, self-serving assholes, spending other people's money; techies are ass-licking, ignorant avocado munchers. $$$ is being spent and harm is being done, while non-tech people struggle to make a living, but have a real life. Get out of the bubble.

[noobhacker]

This is an accurate summary of the article.

However, in my personal experience, it is not an accurate summary of the Bay Area. The startup scene may be truly this toxic, but I think such toxicity plagues any small, homogeneous group of people. It is hardly a tech problem. Indeed, mom-and-pop shop in small towns can be very abusive too.

To offer a counter anecdote, my experience with FAANG has been very positive. My workplace is the most meritocratic, efficient, and transparent organization that I've been in. (And I did spend 6 years on the East coast doing things unrelated to tech.)

I'm certain that the author's experience is true. I also want to caution against generalizing these issues to all of tech in the Bay.

[danreedx86]

not all of us like avocados.

edit: i mean, I do.... but not everyone does.

[rainyMammoth]

Don't know why you are being downvoted but you your TLDR is pretty much spot on.

I would suggest to any techie who finds this not true to leave the bay area for a couple months then come back. It is amazing how entitled everyone is over here.

[raghava]

In the current era, who are the non-tech people?

Almost everyone uses a smartphone and a computing device. I have never been able to understand this "non tech" part all too well.

One who could operate a phone and open a browser and search well is all one needs to be called 'technical' , thanks to the power of fast search and cheap Internet.

[girfan]

Reading this beautifully written piece brings to mind the recent book about Elizabeth Holmes - Bad Blood. Some of the completely unacceptable behavior by tech CEOs and "higher ups" definitely rings a bell; some startups like Theranos were doing exactly that and ended up getting a lot of negative attention.

[quocble]

I read it as 12 year a slave.

[sergioisidoro]

I listened to the article, and yes, the startup environment has a LOT of problems.

But the pretentious tone removes a lot of it's legitimacy for me, mostly because it sinks as low as some of these startups to get engagement and reactions to the article, to the point of becoming hypocritical.

We need proper journalism uncovering these malpractices, not sensationalist or tech gossip pieces that can be discredited as such.