A startup school for a singular technical solution that has now gone years without any demonstrable killer app and which faces immense scaling and regulatory hurdles seems like putting the cart well before the horse here.
I very much doubt that the key roadblock to realizing the crypto dream has been the lack of availability of a startup school around it.
One of Blockchain's killer apps is...Bitcoin. There is no need to talk about "the crypto dream", people are using what they find useful (coinbase is currently #5 top YC company), and I personally see it inevitable that everything in banking/finance will move to a decentralized model, with smart contracts as a driving force, because of autonomy.
Humans haven't really evolved much from say other Apes (or many more other animals) in the way a group is organised. We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.)
Smart contracts allowing for autonomous organisations might well be the first time a species is organising itself without a central entity.
There will never be a singular killer app for crypto. Just like there isn't a killer app for USD or Gold. It is the aggregate adoption, as a transfer of value, across numerous use cases that makes any currency valued.
It seems like crypto currencies have worked pretty well for sending censorship resistant transactions.
This is demonstrated by, for whatever reason, cryptocurrency transactions have generally been censored much less often when compared to, say, bank or credit card transactions.
Perhaps you're right, but so what? If they're funding it, and folks are interested in trying it out, what's the worst that can happen? Best case some new innovation comes out, worse case they end up back where they started. Journey and not the destination and all that.
there are very many comments like yours for years now. Actually the killer app is Bitcoin because billions are being transacted every day in value but still arguing about blockchain it seems that literally all of the tech leaders of our time agree the technology is sound, promising and the future. Literally everyone (I can list names here too).
The thing is that many cowboys didn't get cars at first..
Cryptocurrency space is focusing on the wrong problems. Bitcoin original goal is to create a digital currency that people can use. We're not even close to achieve that goal. But the space is sidetracked into ugly technical wars, elaborate and complicated financial engineering.
There are some fundamental questions that have not been answered. If you are starting, you should look at these.
- How do we make Bitcoin/crypto easier for normal people to use? I think a decent solution so far is the CashApp. But it's only useful for stacking sats.
- How do we make cryptocurrency usable for transactions? Bitcoin volatility makes transaction really hard. I think the answer is new experimentations and tweaks to Bitcoin monetary policy. I outline the problem in this article. https://bitflate.org/post/2019/08/26/bitcoin-missing-link-to...
> Bitcoin original goal is to create a digital currency that people can use. We're not even close to achieve that goal.
I disagree. Cryptocurrency is de facto being used as a currency quite successfully by lots of people. Sure, there are technical hurdles that prevent people who don't really have any need for a decentralized currency from using it. But none of those hurdles are so challenging that people can't use it if they really need it. Plenty of people have used cryptocurrency to move money across borders, make purchases that are illegal under oppressive regimes, etc., and not all of those were technical users. There aren't technical hurdles so high that someone who wants to buy drugs online can't do it with enough effort, for example.
Hacker News types will point to the failure of cryptocurrency to emerge as a competitor to traditional currencies within the regulated market, but that's precisely what you'd expect: cryptocurrencies hamper regulation, so of course there will be resistance from the regulated market. But don't mistake that for failure: cryptocurrencies have created whole markets and flows of value effectively didn't exist before.
To be clear, here's what I'm NOT saying:
1. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement in the user experience. There is.
2. I'm also not saying that the effects of cryptocurrency are necessarily positive. That remains to be seen.
I d say most of the hurdles are regulatory. Bitcoin has become digital gold - a place to store large amounts as a hedge and nothing more. Cryptocurrency will not take the place of visa payments because there s no insurance, its slow etc. All the uses where cryptocurrency would shine and visa cannot do (e.g. quick anonymous tips for your comment) are illegal. So we re stuck until either the regulatory framework or national currencies fall apart.
> How do we make Bitcoin/crypto easier for normal people to use?
Pay people with bitcoin. This is #1. People don't have a problem figuring out even complex systems if there 's money involved (And that's a good thing)
> Bitcoin volatility makes transaction really hard.
Not sure if that's really an issue if cryptos were being used daily. They are instantly convertible to other cryptos or stablecoins, therefore the volatility would quickly go down if people used them in real life. People would exchange them for the most stable currencies only, because people don't like to see their coins devalued. We see lots of volatility today because most bitcoin big players got them by sheer luck / being there first so they treat it as casino chips; its not "a hard day's work" earnings.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Bitcoin so far hasn't delivered (I refrain from calling it a failure) on it's primary premise: being a currency. People touting that there are some hundreds of thousands of transactions a day miss the point. Those numbers are absolutely puny for something that is meant to be a currency.
The unfortunate story here is that a technically and fundamentally interesting idea has been turned into a total cesspit by the influx of money and greed before it could escape it's roots of ideological purity and adapt to the realities of human society.
The starry eyed technologists who were unfortunately not well equipped for the gnarly world of finance got replaced by financially better informed "businessmen" with shady motives or outright frauds.
In the eyes of the broader market, cryptocurrencies have been tainted by black market dealings, non-stop high profile scams, excessive volatility, lack of liquidity and near-zero useful acceptance for retail transactions. I won't even mention the large number of zero value-added ideas that offer nothing beyond what could also be done without blockchain, but just wanted along for the ride. These further diluted the already thin trust.
As much as I shudder at the idea of a Big Tech Co. launching a cryptocurrency, perhaps that'd would have been the one winning shot that the concept had about 2-3 years ago. If Googlecoin or Facebookcoin materialized before either the tech companies or the concept of cryptocurrencies turned into demons, some good could've actually materialized.
Am I too jaded here? Maybe. But after so many years and no killer concept materializing, one has to start asking questions. The other "fads" of the last decade (AI, VR/AR, EV, etc..) actually continue to deliver ever more amazing innovations, putting the stagnation of crypto into a rather stark contrast.
I 100% agree. I love the core ideas, but it's not really useable yet beyond a few (important) use cases. I think the problem is trust. I first got in Bitcoin at $6 and Ethereum at $10. I got out way too early to retire (hence why I bought the domain sellnothing.com, to remind myself of an important lesson), but I got out because I realized the system was too complex and I didn't understand it all, and so felt like the sucker at the poker table.
Our Tree Notation I believe is the solution to making a crypto currency people could trust. You could build a Tree Language for a blockchain that is: 0 syntax. 0 unnecessary complexity. 100% of the capability. No BS. It would look something like this:
transaction
id lerledsfa334
receiver abc432
sender fslkm324
amount 2.22
The key advantage of Tree Notation is countable complexity. You could build a system that is very easy to audit and the community could easily reject any unnecessary complexity, which I think is where corruption goes to hide--in unnecessary complexity.
I've got my hands full with Tree Notation applications in medical research and data science, but I really hope someone applies it to the digital currency space, and I'd be happy to assist time permitting. https://treenotation.org or [email protected]
As an engineer in love with Crypto I figured I would try to build something with it so I put a little side project together, something easy and simple a way you could earn cashback in the form of crypto for shopping online. I went ahead did the integrations with the major affiliate networks, built the whole backend, built the infrastructure for the crypto side. Including creating temporary wallets that people could chose to move their crypto off of etc, ultimately it would cost something like 5 dollars to issue someone 5 dollars. It might be different now but basically most folks pushing the technology have never actually tried to do anything with it.
I came to realize that this whole thing is only useful for one or two use cases maximum. It's terrible for micro transactions, terrible for any sort of scale, and while we all love the idea of it this is like trying to do the iPhone in the 1980's... we are at least 20-30 years a way from something useful.
Lolli does this by only paying out when you accrue enough, and possibly uses the lightning network for payout which makes micro transactions of bitcoin much cheaper. Pei, does this as well.
Well, crypto is a scam and you better be on the side which gets rich from it.
Already in 2015 Washington Post summed it up:
> - Hey, do you want to hear about the future? It's a digital currency called Bitcoin that lets you spend or move your money online without paying any fees.
> - Sounds great. How does it do that?
> - Well, Bitcoin saves you money by making transactions irreversible.
> - So ... if I get scammed, I got scammed? There's nothing I can do about it?
> - Yes.
> - Okay, but is it at least easy to use?
> - The thing is, I don't actually use it. I just hoard it. I'm waiting for some greater fools to push up the price by using theirs.
> - Oh.
> - Yeah. So you should buy some Bitcoins and use yours.
> As used herein a “chain distributor scheme” is a sales device whereby a person, upon condition that he make an investment, is granted a license or right to solicit or recruit for profit or economic gain one or more additional persons who are also granted such license or right upon condition of making an investment and may further perpetuate the chain of persons who are granted such license or right upon such condition.
What is amazing in this new kind of scam is the lack of central scammers and certain actors can easily exploit the culpability of ordinary people. That's what this is, setting up various vehicles to separate fools from their money, and, of course, having a stake in the operation which does the separation. By all means this should be illegal and eventually it will be. Already Facebook's Libra attempt was met by a very stern no by financial regulators in various European countries. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-cryptocurrency-f...
What is it about HN people and negativity about Crypto? Want a killer app? Just look at Bitcoin. Want to find people who use Bitcoin? Move out of your world and visit countries with failing currencies.
[+] [-] egloo|6 years ago|reply
I very much doubt that the key roadblock to realizing the crypto dream has been the lack of availability of a startup school around it.
[+] [-] krzkaczor|6 years ago|reply
Here's just a quick recap of different, new business models https://medium.com/abridged-io/web3-business-models-in-the-w...
IMO things like DeFi are finally a good use case for blockchain.
So yeah, I think this a good idea to create a startup school focused on new, different area witch can disrupt the finance sector.
Disclaimer: I work for MakerDAO.
[+] [-] theboywho|6 years ago|reply
Humans haven't really evolved much from say other Apes (or many more other animals) in the way a group is organised. We haven't yet discovered a way to organise a group without the need for a central entity (an alpha male, a government, central banks, etc.)
Smart contracts allowing for autonomous organisations might well be the first time a species is organising itself without a central entity.
[+] [-] rapsey|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] electic|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stale2002|6 years ago|reply
It seems like crypto currencies have worked pretty well for sending censorship resistant transactions.
This is demonstrated by, for whatever reason, cryptocurrency transactions have generally been censored much less often when compared to, say, bank or credit card transactions.
[+] [-] forgingahead|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] biolurker1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elmar|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ackbar03|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] buboard|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisseaton|6 years ago|reply
But cryptography underpins all the killer apps! If you need to communicate, then you need cryptography.
[+] [-] _7fvc|6 years ago|reply
There are some fundamental questions that have not been answered. If you are starting, you should look at these.
- How do we make Bitcoin/crypto easier for normal people to use? I think a decent solution so far is the CashApp. But it's only useful for stacking sats.
- How do we make cryptocurrency usable for transactions? Bitcoin volatility makes transaction really hard. I think the answer is new experimentations and tweaks to Bitcoin monetary policy. I outline the problem in this article. https://bitflate.org/post/2019/08/26/bitcoin-missing-link-to...
[+] [-] kerkeslager|6 years ago|reply
I disagree. Cryptocurrency is de facto being used as a currency quite successfully by lots of people. Sure, there are technical hurdles that prevent people who don't really have any need for a decentralized currency from using it. But none of those hurdles are so challenging that people can't use it if they really need it. Plenty of people have used cryptocurrency to move money across borders, make purchases that are illegal under oppressive regimes, etc., and not all of those were technical users. There aren't technical hurdles so high that someone who wants to buy drugs online can't do it with enough effort, for example.
Hacker News types will point to the failure of cryptocurrency to emerge as a competitor to traditional currencies within the regulated market, but that's precisely what you'd expect: cryptocurrencies hamper regulation, so of course there will be resistance from the regulated market. But don't mistake that for failure: cryptocurrencies have created whole markets and flows of value effectively didn't exist before.
To be clear, here's what I'm NOT saying:
1. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement in the user experience. There is.
2. I'm also not saying that the effects of cryptocurrency are necessarily positive. That remains to be seen.
[+] [-] buboard|6 years ago|reply
> How do we make Bitcoin/crypto easier for normal people to use?
Pay people with bitcoin. This is #1. People don't have a problem figuring out even complex systems if there 's money involved (And that's a good thing)
> Bitcoin volatility makes transaction really hard.
Not sure if that's really an issue if cryptos were being used daily. They are instantly convertible to other cryptos or stablecoins, therefore the volatility would quickly go down if people used them in real life. People would exchange them for the most stable currencies only, because people don't like to see their coins devalued. We see lots of volatility today because most bitcoin big players got them by sheer luck / being there first so they treat it as casino chips; its not "a hard day's work" earnings.
[+] [-] short_sells_poo|6 years ago|reply
The unfortunate story here is that a technically and fundamentally interesting idea has been turned into a total cesspit by the influx of money and greed before it could escape it's roots of ideological purity and adapt to the realities of human society.
The starry eyed technologists who were unfortunately not well equipped for the gnarly world of finance got replaced by financially better informed "businessmen" with shady motives or outright frauds.
In the eyes of the broader market, cryptocurrencies have been tainted by black market dealings, non-stop high profile scams, excessive volatility, lack of liquidity and near-zero useful acceptance for retail transactions. I won't even mention the large number of zero value-added ideas that offer nothing beyond what could also be done without blockchain, but just wanted along for the ride. These further diluted the already thin trust.
As much as I shudder at the idea of a Big Tech Co. launching a cryptocurrency, perhaps that'd would have been the one winning shot that the concept had about 2-3 years ago. If Googlecoin or Facebookcoin materialized before either the tech companies or the concept of cryptocurrencies turned into demons, some good could've actually materialized.
Am I too jaded here? Maybe. But after so many years and no killer concept materializing, one has to start asking questions. The other "fads" of the last decade (AI, VR/AR, EV, etc..) actually continue to deliver ever more amazing innovations, putting the stagnation of crypto into a rather stark contrast.
[+] [-] breck|6 years ago|reply
I 100% agree. I love the core ideas, but it's not really useable yet beyond a few (important) use cases. I think the problem is trust. I first got in Bitcoin at $6 and Ethereum at $10. I got out way too early to retire (hence why I bought the domain sellnothing.com, to remind myself of an important lesson), but I got out because I realized the system was too complex and I didn't understand it all, and so felt like the sucker at the poker table.
Our Tree Notation I believe is the solution to making a crypto currency people could trust. You could build a Tree Language for a blockchain that is: 0 syntax. 0 unnecessary complexity. 100% of the capability. No BS. It would look something like this:
The key advantage of Tree Notation is countable complexity. You could build a system that is very easy to audit and the community could easily reject any unnecessary complexity, which I think is where corruption goes to hide--in unnecessary complexity.I've got my hands full with Tree Notation applications in medical research and data science, but I really hope someone applies it to the digital currency space, and I'd be happy to assist time permitting. https://treenotation.org or [email protected]
[+] [-] tuesdayrain|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lbacaj|6 years ago|reply
I came to realize that this whole thing is only useful for one or two use cases maximum. It's terrible for micro transactions, terrible for any sort of scale, and while we all love the idea of it this is like trying to do the iPhone in the 1980's... we are at least 20-30 years a way from something useful.
[+] [-] easymovet|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throw03172019|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chx|6 years ago|reply
Already in 2015 Washington Post summed it up:
> - Hey, do you want to hear about the future? It's a digital currency called Bitcoin that lets you spend or move your money online without paying any fees.
> - Sounds great. How does it do that?
> - Well, Bitcoin saves you money by making transactions irreversible.
> - So ... if I get scammed, I got scammed? There's nothing I can do about it?
> - Yes.
> - Okay, but is it at least easy to use?
> - The thing is, I don't actually use it. I just hoard it. I'm waiting for some greater fools to push up the price by using theirs.
> - Oh.
> - Yeah. So you should buy some Bitcoins and use yours.
Preston Byrne's great post two years later https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ suggested to call it a Nakamoto scheme, drawing parallels to chain distribution schemes:
> As used herein a “chain distributor scheme” is a sales device whereby a person, upon condition that he make an investment, is granted a license or right to solicit or recruit for profit or economic gain one or more additional persons who are also granted such license or right upon condition of making an investment and may further perpetuate the chain of persons who are granted such license or right upon such condition.
What is amazing in this new kind of scam is the lack of central scammers and certain actors can easily exploit the culpability of ordinary people. That's what this is, setting up various vehicles to separate fools from their money, and, of course, having a stake in the operation which does the separation. By all means this should be illegal and eventually it will be. Already Facebook's Libra attempt was met by a very stern no by financial regulators in various European countries. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-cryptocurrency-f...
[+] [-] cpheimbach|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dude2029|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] svrtknst|6 years ago|reply
Doubtless there are other excellent resources, this timed it pretty well for me.
My biggest gripe so far is that I had to turn off the contnet blocking in Firefox for the e-mail field to show up...
[+] [-] gcatalfamo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] kerkeslager|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rolltiide|6 years ago|reply
Right now the distributed ledger and digital asset education is either extremely technical documents OR youtubers glossing over everything.
A lot of the grifters aren't speaking a common tongue and it unnecessarily increases the transaction cost of coordinating expertise.
[+] [-] boffinism|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jchallis|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simias|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] donkeyd|6 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto
[+] [-] OJFord|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cakez0r|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lawnchair_larry|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bernardlunn|6 years ago|reply