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macOS no longer allows changing wifi mac address

444 points| MilnerRoute | 6 years ago |slashdot.org

322 comments

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[+] userbinator|6 years ago|reply
There are others here who say this is a bug, not a feature, and I agree; and having looked through the open-source code that Apple releases, I have a reasonable guess of how this happened.

Apple seems to have an internal developer culture that basically does not value backwards-compatibility nor stability, and instead really loves rewriting huge pieces of code all the time. If you look at the OSS that it releases, you'll see interfaces between the various components change greatly between versions and lots of other churn. There are many places which look unimplemented, with only stub functions present. With such a situation, it's not hard to envision how a simple "change the MAC address" function could've gotten left out of some piece during a rewrite, because it otherwise does not affect basic functionality.

I really recommend downloading the OSS from Apple and inspecting it; the pieces it copied from BSDs etc. are relatively stable, but the amount of churn in other pieces is surprising to see.

[+] LeoNatan25|6 years ago|reply
This is true about all walks of Apple software, sadly, from file syncing to Bonjour (mDNSresponder) to UI frameworks to developer tools to consumer applications. Apple developers rewrite software in a butterfingered way on a consistent basis, creating software that lacks any design, missing large chunks of functionality and often lacks any kind of polish or coherency.

Other problems in the dev culture accentuate this problem even further. It seems there is a complete lack of dependency graph between the software stacks; apple engineers who opt to rewrite a piece of software or functionality have no documentation or idea how the software is used or was originally intended to be used, be it inside Apple or otherwise, often causing serious design-level bugs, often resulting in major rollbacks. The lack of any QA work is also very apparent, especially in recent years, where simple bugs and glitches are allowed to go through, let alone major rewrites. The only tool to counter this is radar/feedback assistant, which are tools well documented in their inefficiency from current and ex Apple developers themselves.

I don't think this should solely fall on Apple developers, of course. As is often the case, such inherent problems in culture are due to lackluster management. This has been hinted at by many ex Apple engineers.

[+] dreamcompiler|6 years ago|reply
This explains something I ran into recently. I stick with older versions of macOS for a variety of reasons, and El Capitan cannot rename or delete a file that has a NUL character in its name. Earlier versions of macOS could do so. This implies they rewrote the unlink function and made a rookie C programmer mistake in the process. Why rewrite unlink? The mind boggles.
[+] oneplane|6 years ago|reply
I'm not sure about the internal culture, but externally they seem to stress the importance of only using public published interfaces and frameworks as API & ABI layers and not touching anything else as they won't guarantee any stability in private internals. (per their docs iirc)
[+] bob1029|6 years ago|reply
I am still having a really hard time finding a reason to upgrade my late-2013 MBP (which I am currently typing this on) to any of their newer hardware. Every generation that came out was "meh, 5% more perf, 10% more bullshit compromise".

At this point, I am looking forward to October 22nd. I will be checking out the new surface laptops as a replacement. I think I was already sold when the presenter removed the top cover on stage. I really enjoy the UX that macOS affords, but Apple is simultaneously so abusive to developers and tinkerers. It's hard to reason with and I just feel like I am done with them at this point. I'll get a new battery installed on this machine and keep it around as an emergency iOS app build agent (for as long as latest Xcode->macOS->my hardware are supported, that is).

Ideally, we move all of our client's B2B apps onto UWP/Android/PWA so I don't even have to maintain a build path to the hellhole that is iOS applications. My life as a developer could just consist of a Microsoft/Android stack and that would be so wonderful. I'd never have to leave visual studio again.

[+] throwitawayfam|6 years ago|reply
Surface laptops meaning Windows? Windows may offer more customization freedom than macOS but privacy wise, Windows is a much bigger offender.

If you can look at your DNS queries on your home network (pihole can be one option), I encourage you to compare macOS to Windows. Windows regularly phones home in many different ways. Personally on top of the pihole block lists, I've blocked about 15 other domains Windows phones home with. Every update seems to add more domains. I haven't blocked a single domain for macOS or seen any blocked domains for macOS.

The only way to get a telemetry free Windows is via LTSB (probably can not acquire it legally as a consumer), or to keep up with modifying updates and/or block lists. Not sure if that is any better than macOS's "bullshit compromise"s.

[+] riazrizvi|6 years ago|reply
I’m going to go with a privacy centered Linux machine (https://puri.sm). Since most of the problems I have with MacOS/iOS are related to Apple locking the user out of controlling their own machine. Microsoft and Android machine manufacturers do something similar by locking users into bloatware and update policies, it’s just a general business trend of profiting from restricting user control. Until consumers begin to punish this behavior with their wallets, it will keep getting worse.
[+] atarian|6 years ago|reply
I have both a 2015 MBP (same model as the 2013) and the latest 2019 MBP. The 2019 is almost better in every way (except for the dongles). FWIW, I did a Thunderbolt transfer from my 2015 to 2019 and it was pretty much a carbon copy of all my settings.

I recommend you actually try it out yourself before making a judgment.

[+] bradly|6 years ago|reply
Why are you looking for a reason to upgrade? If you don’t have a reason to upgrade that is a positive, not a negative. Lots of MacBook Pro users seem to be upset they don’t have a good reason to spend thousands of dollars on a new laptop.
[+] chrisweekly|6 years ago|reply
I'm still enjoying and taking gentle care of my mid-2012(!) mbp15r, and dreading the day she's finally done. no idea what the replacement will be.
[+] ksec|6 years ago|reply
MacBook Air Retina, We now have many reports of Retina MacBook Air's CPU dying. And it isn't even out for long, and most suspect it has to do with its new cooling method.

MacBook Pro, while we all know the Keyboard sucks, and Touch Bar is either a love it or hate it addition, I am glad there are more people voicing the big trackpad is simply a bad design. It increase false positives which is very annoying to some people.

Basically the I am looking at the whole MacBook Lineup and it seems everything is step backward. I surely hope the rumoured new MacBook Pro coming this October will fix all of these issues.

[+] bluedino|6 years ago|reply
The laptops can have double the cores and memory than they did in 2013.
[+] foxtr0t|6 years ago|reply
All that and for the average consumer most of their software is 3-5 years behind everything else. The desktop experience is silky smooth 95% of the time and that’s the only thing keeping me there. That 5% is starting to become a problem for me, though. I got an LG 5k display that apple helped develop, it was the display they tried to sell with MacBook pros in apple stores. If I try to use it with my lid open the graphics hw overheats and the screen freezes and flickers. I have to use the screen with the lid closed. Unacceptable for a $5k setup.

That’s in addition to a series of other annoying hardware issues with that laptop. Don’t get me started about the keyboard.

[+] javajosh|6 years ago|reply
BTW, how is Visual Studio for Android? I've only ever used IntelliJ/Android Studio, and it seems like this is the best supported environment since it is the "official" one, but I'm curious about the other side.
[+] RealWorldPolice|6 years ago|reply
I don't think you are their primary target buyer.

I work with video most of my waking hours and the 2019 MacBook Pro fully-optioned out has finally allowed me to not be tethered to my desktop for work and has easily paid for itself in time saved.

[+] Jnr|6 years ago|reply
Don't worry about macOS updates, you can always go the Hackintosh way on non-apple hardware.
[+] rkaregaran|6 years ago|reply
I experienced this a couple of months ago while trying to spoof a hotel room's captive portal. I was attempting to get a Chromecast to work, which isn't designed to operate with wifi connections behind captive portals. Very frustrating and no feedback from the OS that the commands I was running weren't actually doing what it said it was doing. This was on a latest gen MacBook Pro 15" running latest version at the time of MacOS.
[+] scarface74|6 years ago|reply
We were in an extended stay for about six months while we were waiting for our house to be built and had the same issue with our Apple TV and our WiFi printer.

I purchased an older version of this...

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Wireless-Portable-Travel-Rout...

It lets you connect to either a standard Ethernet port like any router and it lets you connect to two WiFi networks and use one for the internet connection and the other to create an internal network.

You basically connect any device with a browser to the internal network to get through the captive portal and all of your other devices will then work that are connected to it.

[+] pfranz|6 years ago|reply
I've done the exact same thing in order to get an AppleTV (that doesn't have a web browser) onto a hotel's wifi.
[+] chmars|6 years ago|reply
1/2 OT: The Apple Watch does not work with captive portals either. And since 4G does not work abroad, I can use my Apple Watch without my iPhone nearby only in my home country.
[+] MiroF|6 years ago|reply
I had the same problem after an update _ I found that on my 2017 mpb system they’ve either reverted the change or allow you to change the last few values of your address.
[+] sovnade|6 years ago|reply
It won't help your chromecast, but the Roku streaming sticks work fine on Hotel wifi. You connect the roku to it, then connect your phone to the Roku's direct wifi and go through the portal on your phone. It's worked in every hotel I've been in perfectly.
[+] discobean|6 years ago|reply
I recently tried this and was able to change the address of only the last few characters, it wouldn't let me change the address entirely.

I just suspected it just had a check on the first bytes of the address to be sure it was a valid Apple ethernet adapter.

[+] MiroF|6 years ago|reply
This is still unpatched on my system... hope not too many Apple engineers are browsing these forums

If Apple renders it impossible to change my address at all, I definitely won’t be purchasing their computers any more.

[+] alexis_fr|6 years ago|reply
MAC addresses were supposed to be a manufacturer ID + a local ID, so I’m not surprised.
[+] dopu|6 years ago|reply
Unrelated, but the MacRumors thread that's linked to has someone posting about neighbors harassing them by doing things such as "moving my cursor all over the place and speeding up the temperature, causing the fan" and that their "neighbors also learned to slow my internet (ATT DSL) or to disconnect it." [0] Hence their need change their MAC address.

They're now in the process of collecting evidence, and post: "This legal evidence will benefit many, as they boast of being Freemasons, and this being part of their "craft" and their "process". Therefore, when I go public in legal proceeds about their "craft" and "process", while actually forcing those individuals which I have substantial evidence on to appear for the courtroom cameras, the rest of humanity they plague will see the low caliper, socially outcast, inadequates they are. No one need fear them. It's fear they try to attain, and before I'm finished, no one on earth ever will."

Amazing.

[0]: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/change-mac-address.2154...

[+] orf|6 years ago|reply
> Yes, there are multiple harassers which then could slow my connection. Within minutes after shortening my wifi range, there were verbal complaints like - "I hate you".

> That these multiple idiots spend their time harassing me, rather than something fruitful with their lives is sign of human de-evolution. They tend to be low income producers, and attempt to diminish my successes.

The effects of underfunding, de-prioritizing and making it hard to access mental healthcare take their toll. It's highly unlikely that the freemasons are telling this person that they hate her over bluetooth, and you see snapshots like this into peoples on Facebook and Reddit. It's quite chilling, even if this one is quite benign and not a video of someone yelling at daemons on the street.

[+] diminoten|6 years ago|reply
This sounds like a CO2 leak or someone not taking their medication.
[+] mruts|6 years ago|reply
“ Yes, there are multiple harassers which then could slow my connection. Within minutes after shortening my wifi range, there were verbal complaints like - "I hate you". Bluetooth may well be the way for the talking, but of course my computer shows no blue tooth connection. I did run network software and got their computer IP addresses (I think that's the correct term). That's how I kicked them off the router, individually, after shortening the wifi range. But, one keeps changing the address, that's why I started this thread inquiry. Thought if I did the same, it would be harder to get on mine”

Oh man. What is this person talking about?

[+] techsupporter|6 years ago|reply
This does look like a change on more recent hardware. I just tried the script that the parent linked from Stack Overflow[0] on my 2017 MacBook 12" running the latest Catalina public beta and it does work. I can change my MAC and my laptop gets a new IPv4 address from DHCP.

Edited to add: I also just tried this on my 2018 Mac Mini (also running latest Catalina public beta) and it also worked... Different wireless adapter from the MacBook Pro line maybe?

0 - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/52421789/cant-spoof-mac-...

[+] simonklitj|6 years ago|reply
Seems to be a hardware related thing, as WiFiSpoof (https://wifispoof.com) lists 2018/2019 devices as the ones not supported, and not a specific macOS version.
[+] miles|6 years ago|reply
In fact, they explicitly recommend using Mojave on that page:

"10.11 or better (Mojave recommended)"

[+] Dunedan|6 years ago|reply
That smells like it's related to the T2 chip.
[+] TazeTSchnitzel|6 years ago|reply
Apple do MAC address randomisation on iOS, right? Does this mean macOS doesn't do that, or that does but you can't turn it off?
[+] stefan_|6 years ago|reply
As I understand it, the address randomisation is only for the probes to check if a configured network is present; once you are connected, it uses the real MAC address.
[+] _bxg1|6 years ago|reply
It seems more like Apple to strongarm people into something that's probably best for them - for security, privacy, etc. - than to place limits on their customers just to buddy up with [checks notes]...hotel chains.

The removal of an option here could imply that they started randomizing the ones on macOS.

[+] ivanstegic|6 years ago|reply
All the more reason to buy a Lenovo and put Linux on it.
[+] mahesh_rm|6 years ago|reply
I count heavily on this feature when working with my 2015 macbook pro from public WiFi. If it's a hardware limit, it would be a deal breaker for a MacBook update. Anybody knowledgeable of the issue can pitch in on weather it is a deliberate choice or the collateral effect of non yet supported hardware?
[+] kilroy123|6 years ago|reply
I constantly have to do this when connecting to public WiFis around the world, which limits usage. I'll just change the Mac address and I'm able to continue using the WiFi.
[+] gruez|6 years ago|reply
This is disappointing from a privacy oriented company. Windows had mac address randomization for a few years now. It even supports randomizing on a per-network basis and automatic daily rotations.

https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/tutorials/110342d14859...

[+] sarah180|6 years ago|reply
Even on Windows it depends on your hardware. I have two Windows laptops. One supports MAC randomization. The other won't allow it because the hardware reports that the MAC address is locked.
[+] jen_h|6 years ago|reply
They're kind of hurting their own product adoption here: Apple TV doesn't support the use of "gated" wifi connections (and that's on top of ensuring fewer people use Macs for pentesting/security stuff).

If I couldn't spoof my mac address, I couldn't use Apple TV when traveling -- you have to set your computer's MAC to the Apple TV mac, connect to wifi, log in, switch back, then turn on the Apple TV. And for most hotels/gated wifi hotspots, you have to do this every. single. day. Luckily I use Ubuntu as my primary, but still...

Here's to hoping they rethink this and add a feature to allow wifi login pages on AppleTV...

[+] yakshaving_jgt|6 years ago|reply
I panicked for a moment, since I travel a lot and changing my MAC address is the only way to circumvent draconian limited WiFi rules. Glad to see this is only temporary, and it'll be fixed before I end up buying a new machine.

Here's how I get around free WiFi limitations while travelling: https://jezenthomas.com/free-internet-on-trains/

[+] clubm8|6 years ago|reply
I had not tried in a long time. They have for a long time not allowed you to put airport into monitor mode easily, so I always just bought a USB wifi antenna for any wireless penetration testing.

I'm surprised by this thought... is it not changable at all or just by the user? I know in iOS they had a feature to randomize the mac when searching out networks to increase privacy...

[+] nixgeek|6 years ago|reply
I don’t think this is down to macOS version, it seems related to the vintage of the hardware.

I have a Late 2016 15” which allows me to change the MAC address, and anything 2018+ does not seem to allow it.

Both the 2018 and 2019 model return zero when you type “ifconfig” commands to change the hardware address, but the command has no effect.

Have tried this on Mojave and Catalina.