The Internet's reaction to this has warmed my heart a little. Overwatch and Hearthstone are among my favorite computer games. I've certainly played more Overwatch than any other game. I have made real-world and online friends in Overwatch. I met my girlfriend in Overwatch.
It made me sad to have to throw all that away yesterday.
But the conversations we're having as a result of this is great. The mainstream media is talking about it. Congress is talking about it. We're going to have to ask ourselves: can we really let China have this much influence? Is it really worth it? (Remember: this is what Europe is asking about Silicon Valley with things like GDPR, and it's working out quite well for them.)
Banning someone from Hearthstone GM doesn't matter. But we are heading down a path where we decide what our values are, and they're looking pretty good.
One thing to note -- it's not really troubling for a country to have a lot of influence. It's troubling for China to have as much influence as it does when it's directly trying to undermine freedoms that we have fought tooth and nail and died a million lives to get in The West.
This is not a question of a foreign country being different. This is a question of a foreign company forcing us to slowly give up the very things we consider to make us human -- our freedoms -- in exchange for a couple extra bucks. The fact that companies are willing to do it is pathetic. And I'm glad that people are finally waking up to this.
Hong Kong is literally protesting to have the right to a trail by jury! How anyone in The West could not take their side is baffling to me. I wish I was a gamer so I could boycott Blizzard. But I am a basketball player, and I'll make sure to tell everyone I can to boycott the NBA until they make this right.
The protesters are not wrong. The CCP is antithetical to our way of life in The West. Apologist companies to The CCP -- in my view -- are a direct threat to my freedom as a human being.
It's interesting to see people give up Blizzard games, but still continue supporting companies like Apple that do far worse, like effectively giving the keys to iCloud to China. I think the conversation is great, and maybe now we'll actually reconsider what the TPP's goal was. But in the end, the people picked money first, so it shouldn't be a surprise when businesses do this as well.
I clicked on a tweet in the article and then the tweet contained within by Rob Breslau and the top reply is (with 4.2 likes currently) "American gamers are too busy being horny for Overwatch heroes to hold Blizzard accountable for this."
Doesn't seem that heartwarming at all, just gross.
As much as I want to think change will happen, it's much more likely this will be a few weeks of PR and ultimately nothing will change.
For something to change people have to vote with their wallets. In this context that means cancelling subscriptions or dropping games they are already playing in favor for ones by competitors with better integrity, and I don't see that happening.
Diablo players could go to Path of Exile, its closest competitor, but that game is massively invested into China as well and partially owned by Tencent.
Warcraft RTS players represent a small market right now with almost no microtransactions or ongoing revenue.
WoW players have alternatives, but not many I am aware of that aren't heavily Chinese based as the MMORPG category is dominated by Chinese companies like Perfect World.
Starcraft players don't have a lot of alternatives as SC has dominated the esports and highly polished RTS category for over 5 years with the same game. The closest competitor would be Age of Empires or Warhammer, I'm not sure how much influence China has over them, but they are different types of RTS games.
Heroes of the Storm players can go to Dota or LoL. LoL being owned by China and Dota being owned by Valve with strong Chinese market involvement.
A common albeit reductive meme around the entire controversy is that Blizzard games were already declining in popularity (especially Starcraft and HotS) so it's easy to boycott them.
Path of Exile is an interesting case as I know a lot of Diablo players went there since Diablo III is effectively on life support (including myself), but the resurfacing of the Tencent ownership news is causing ethical complications: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/df5zx7/anyone_...
Keep in mind its Activision-Blizzard, not just Blizzard.
Even if you boycotted all Blizzard products, the call of duty series and candy crush would take the hit. Also, I don't think it would work period; if Blizzard made this a hill to die on, it's because the Chinese market must be growing and higher profit than the west.
The lack of will towards cancellation doesn't seem to be an issue given that Activision Blizzard has an "overloaded" account deletion feature which shows they have had enough deletions to make them afraid and decided to break the law over it.
Some additions though:
I know for RTSes AOE2 is still shockingly active and viable as it happens to have landed on "peak RTS complexity" from a combination of minimal auto along with some unique features like one of the fewer RTSes to have a remotely accurate tooth to tail ratio - it is extraordinarily rare for the military to outnumber the civilian sector and if you are in that position unless victory is assured defeat is inevitable.
AOE2 is conveniently open in its protocols and they demonstrate why independence from competitive tournaments is important to game making. From a business standpoint the best choice isn't to kowtow but to stay not responsible for it.
Which is an ironic but tangible advantage for open software and giving up control. Even the unreasonable can see that any controversial actions are not your fault just like Lego can't stop you from building dongs and swastikas with their bricks.
Personally I suspect MMOs would be harder to replace by "flavor" from how out of Zeitgeist they are after so many tried and failed to create WOW killers they stopped trying. Combined with Free To Play models sucking much of the staple player base away. Even longtime rivals or disliked MMO variants mourn the passing or decline of others. They have effectively become period pieces in many ways - not dead but in clear twilight.
> As much as I want to think change will happen, it's much more likely this will be a few weeks of PR and ultimately nothing will change.
I would agree with you if this wasn't all tied to ongoing protests in Hong Kong and a continued trade war with China that both don't appear like they're going to be resolved any time soon. Blizzard has inadvertently added an anchor to the situation without a clear way of removing it.
By far the most egregious example of western firms working with China are management consulting companies like McKinsey that work directly with governments on expensive contracts, including of course China.
I mean, in those cases they are often writing the playbook for the government when it comes to implementing certain policies. Crazy that is even legal for a western firm.
I work(ed) for McKinsey. Writing this in present tense for vague anonymity.
I don’t do anything public sector so I don’t know what policies we do. But in reading this it feels like you are implying that McKinsey would be behind various draconian policies or censorship. I would say that’s relatively unlikely given the nature of what the firm does and does not like to associate itself with. As the only anecdotal evidence I have There was that Saudi thing from a while ago where someone did a social network analysis on political ideas, and the internal discussion was adamantly that we don’t do projects like that (identifying dissidents) for governments.
Also while it is a company founded in the west, a team serving Chinese government interests is highly likely to be 100% Chinese people, living in China, landed by Chinese partners. Both because Chinese workers tend to serve Chinese clients and I would guess that the Chinese government requires this. If you were to make such a thing illegal, what would likely happen is the firm would just split into two firms, the Chinese part and the not Chinese part, and it wouldn’t make a ton of difference because most work is driven by individual contributors on an individual basis rather than a large group effort from an entity like Google.
That's a really good point and not one I had considered in the context of everything that's happened recently.
McKinsey has been involved with a lot of bad stuff internationally over the last decade or two. Monitor's work with Gaddafi was also really gross. There's an odd dichotomy though - the ex-McKinsey employees I know personally and work closely with are all very thoughtful, ethical people.
If Hong Kong becomes a Palestine-style cause celebre it will be bad for China.
China is trapped. They are stuck with this democratic appendix attached to a communist body. China can't keep Hong Kong under a democratic system as they have zero understanding of democracy. But if they try to repress it they risk endangering China's relationships with the rest of the world. They made a
mistake thinking they could transform a democratic territory into a communist one without any consequences.
Hong Kong's entire value, as far as I can see [and I'm referring to the value of Hong Kong as a community including people and businesses, not just their geographic value], either as a place to live or to do business or to visit, comes from it being a SAR with its own government, culture, historical legacy, and lack of interference from its mother country. If it becomes a homogenized satellite of Shenzhen with sky high real estate, which seems to be what China wants, what's left of Hong Kong?
I thought China was smarter than this. I thought they would realize the value of Hong Kong. Apparently China doesn't want Hong Kong. They want to remove the perennial thorn in their side, that democratic city-state of Chinese heritage right on their border. They want to grind it into dust, slowly if possible, but immediately if Hong Kong makes too much fuss about the pestle. They want to remove the painful reminder of [their losses during] the Opium Wars and British influence in the Sinosphere. They want to do that at any cost, including destroying Hong Kong's culture and attractiveness as a business location.
This is the height of tragedy. There will never be another place like it, and China is destroying it out of spite and ideological inflexibility.
I cancelled my blizzard account as soon as I heard this news.
I doubt I'll renew - since the root cause is unlikely to be fixed with any PR expedient move at this point. They have shown the world where their true nature lies - and it ain't good. Cancel yours if you have them...
Somewhat tangential: Is there a website that tracks companies which do not have Chinese investors and does not use Chinese manufacturing in their supply chain?
I'd like to try to avoid giving money to China, but they are so ingrained into the American economy I'm not sure how to do this in practice.
Now, a protest by "a dozen to 30" employees is unlikely to change Blizzard policy, even with the public backlash. While employees staging walkouts could actually hamper Blizzard's ability to make money, when each employee is individually up to the whims of the larger company, they may face negative repercussions and many, out of fear of reprisals, don't protest in the first place.
That's why we need unions in the software industry. Via collectivized action, the power differential between employer and employees is leveled. This is not only about collective bargaining, being able to enforce adequate labor standards (e.g. no/less/compensated "crunch" time), but also about being able to force company policy. If the majority of employees would strike/walk out and any negative repercussions against individuals would be met with more strikes, Blizzard would very quickly change.
>The demonstration’s numbers fluctuated throughout the day, the two employees said, ranging from a dozen to 30, and the protesters departed sometime in the late afternoon.
So less than 1% of the company? Not trying to minimize the issue here but let's also not make events sound bigger than they really are.
In the same vein, let's say there are only 400k people online showing outrage at this. That's less than 0.01% of the world's population. Now weigh this ratio against the violation of human rights, police violence, ethnic cleansing and organ harvesting, and ask your question again.
Thinking that numbers is all that matters is the same as valuing $$$ over morals, which is what this is all about.
I remember it being mentioned in the "Work rules" book by that Google guy. They had a desert in their canteen called "Free Tibet Goji-Chocolate Creme Pie..." in the canteen. They said "well, the food is free, and the berries come from Tibet, so ..." Trying to be cheeky. But several people threatened to quit over this, and they had a huge discussion on the internal mailing list with over 1300 replies. The chef who created it got suspended, and then people got worried because of the chilling effect that this would have on free speech. Eventually the suspension was reversed. Very dramatic.
The Chinese government thinks it could lose the power struggle over Hong Kong, while it was confident about the Chinese invasion and assimilation of Tibet. Hong Kong is a real threat to the Chinese regime.
I can't verify this but a video game YouTube channel I subscribe to has reported that the following statement was released on Chinese social media by Blizzard representatives:
"We are very angered and disappointed at what happened at
the event and do not condone it in any way. We also highly
object the spreading of personal political beliefs in this
manner. Effective immediately we've banned the contestant
from events and terminated work with the broadcasters. We
will always respect and defend the pride of our country."
If true, the Chinese side of Blizzard is anti-Western values and the US corporate side is ultimately responsible for allowing the situation to happen.
As the US/China trade war drags on, as the HK protests continue, I think US corporations will have to choose between profits or values. Some brands and reputations will be reinforced, others--like Blizzard--will take a massive hit.
> Protesting Blizzard employees from multiple departments gathered at an iconic statue of an Orc warrior charging into battle in the center of the company’s main campus in Irvine, California
The link says the statue that was made in China, heh.
> “Doing business in China, it’s been easier to ignore the authoritarianism of the government because they were asking us to do things like remove a skeleton [from a game],” he said.
It looks like China learned nothing from the USSR (or from their own Great Leap Forward, for that matter). Escalation is not going to go their way. Hawkish members of the CCP are going to blow the whole thing up.
This is much bigger than Activision-Blizzard and it's clear that Western companies are going to have to pick a side soon. There's a very salient conflict between Wall Street and the Classical Liberal underpinnings of our modern democracies. As it stands right now, this is going to get worse before it gets better. Is anyone worried about the HKD/USD peg falling?
> This is much bigger than Activision-Blizzard and it's clear that Western companies are going to have to pick a side soon.
I would imagine there are thousands of businesses with varying degrees of exposure to the Chinese market whose executives are on pins and needles right now, desperately hoping no circumstance arises that will require them to publicly take a side on this issue.
Businesses with less exposure or fewer ambitions in China might have a lower barrier to standing firm if pushed, but those with the most to lose in the Chinese market are staring down a very real, very imminent choice between taking a major hit to either their revenues or their ethical credibility.
Why are we so up in arms about this? Why not before this?
Well, because we were insulated from China's behavior. Their heavy handed approach only affected their own citizens. They jailed their own citizens, but not Americans, not other people.
We got our supply chain from them and they gave us what we wanted, so we're good.
However! Now China's tyranny is leaking out of China. It's getting into arenas where we are. You could have been playing that game. You could have said something that offended China -- maybe without even knowing it.
Plus, they are in our IoT devices, our iphones, our cameras. China is watching and controlling us now. They are restricting our access to games -- not just their own people.
The culture and rules of countries don't exist solely within the borders of that country.
This is new for Americans. It's not new for the rest of the world. What USA wanted, USA got.
Now, what China wants, China gets -- even if it's not what we want.
[+] [-] jrockway|6 years ago|reply
It made me sad to have to throw all that away yesterday.
But the conversations we're having as a result of this is great. The mainstream media is talking about it. Congress is talking about it. We're going to have to ask ourselves: can we really let China have this much influence? Is it really worth it? (Remember: this is what Europe is asking about Silicon Valley with things like GDPR, and it's working out quite well for them.)
Banning someone from Hearthstone GM doesn't matter. But we are heading down a path where we decide what our values are, and they're looking pretty good.
[+] [-] onlyrealcuzzo|6 years ago|reply
This is not a question of a foreign country being different. This is a question of a foreign company forcing us to slowly give up the very things we consider to make us human -- our freedoms -- in exchange for a couple extra bucks. The fact that companies are willing to do it is pathetic. And I'm glad that people are finally waking up to this.
Hong Kong is literally protesting to have the right to a trail by jury! How anyone in The West could not take their side is baffling to me. I wish I was a gamer so I could boycott Blizzard. But I am a basketball player, and I'll make sure to tell everyone I can to boycott the NBA until they make this right.
The protesters are not wrong. The CCP is antithetical to our way of life in The West. Apologist companies to The CCP -- in my view -- are a direct threat to my freedom as a human being.
[+] [-] seph-reed|6 years ago|reply
https://github.com/hongkonggong/beyond-lennon-walls/issues/2...
[+] [-] jasonlotito|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spinach|6 years ago|reply
Doesn't seem that heartwarming at all, just gross.
[+] [-] wpdev_63|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] orasis|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ddtaylor|6 years ago|reply
For something to change people have to vote with their wallets. In this context that means cancelling subscriptions or dropping games they are already playing in favor for ones by competitors with better integrity, and I don't see that happening.
Diablo players could go to Path of Exile, its closest competitor, but that game is massively invested into China as well and partially owned by Tencent.
Warcraft RTS players represent a small market right now with almost no microtransactions or ongoing revenue.
WoW players have alternatives, but not many I am aware of that aren't heavily Chinese based as the MMORPG category is dominated by Chinese companies like Perfect World.
Starcraft players don't have a lot of alternatives as SC has dominated the esports and highly polished RTS category for over 5 years with the same game. The closest competitor would be Age of Empires or Warhammer, I'm not sure how much influence China has over them, but they are different types of RTS games.
Heroes of the Storm players can go to Dota or LoL. LoL being owned by China and Dota being owned by Valve with strong Chinese market involvement.
More alternatives are needed IMO.
[+] [-] minimaxir|6 years ago|reply
Path of Exile is an interesting case as I know a lot of Diablo players went there since Diablo III is effectively on life support (including myself), but the resurfacing of the Tencent ownership news is causing ethical complications: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/df5zx7/anyone_...
[+] [-] Noos|6 years ago|reply
Even if you boycotted all Blizzard products, the call of duty series and candy crush would take the hit. Also, I don't think it would work period; if Blizzard made this a hill to die on, it's because the Chinese market must be growing and higher profit than the west.
The people who pay set the rules.
[+] [-] Nasrudith|6 years ago|reply
Some additions though: I know for RTSes AOE2 is still shockingly active and viable as it happens to have landed on "peak RTS complexity" from a combination of minimal auto along with some unique features like one of the fewer RTSes to have a remotely accurate tooth to tail ratio - it is extraordinarily rare for the military to outnumber the civilian sector and if you are in that position unless victory is assured defeat is inevitable.
AOE2 is conveniently open in its protocols and they demonstrate why independence from competitive tournaments is important to game making. From a business standpoint the best choice isn't to kowtow but to stay not responsible for it.
Which is an ironic but tangible advantage for open software and giving up control. Even the unreasonable can see that any controversial actions are not your fault just like Lego can't stop you from building dongs and swastikas with their bricks.
Personally I suspect MMOs would be harder to replace by "flavor" from how out of Zeitgeist they are after so many tried and failed to create WOW killers they stopped trying. Combined with Free To Play models sucking much of the staple player base away. Even longtime rivals or disliked MMO variants mourn the passing or decline of others. They have effectively become period pieces in many ways - not dead but in clear twilight.
[+] [-] seanalltogether|6 years ago|reply
I would agree with you if this wasn't all tied to ongoing protests in Hong Kong and a continued trade war with China that both don't appear like they're going to be resolved any time soon. Blizzard has inadvertently added an anchor to the situation without a clear way of removing it.
[+] [-] Fnoord|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Avery3R|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cwkoss|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cannonedhamster|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seph-reed|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] undefined3840|6 years ago|reply
I mean, in those cases they are often writing the playbook for the government when it comes to implementing certain policies. Crazy that is even legal for a western firm.
[+] [-] throwaway66920|6 years ago|reply
I don’t do anything public sector so I don’t know what policies we do. But in reading this it feels like you are implying that McKinsey would be behind various draconian policies or censorship. I would say that’s relatively unlikely given the nature of what the firm does and does not like to associate itself with. As the only anecdotal evidence I have There was that Saudi thing from a while ago where someone did a social network analysis on political ideas, and the internal discussion was adamantly that we don’t do projects like that (identifying dissidents) for governments.
Also while it is a company founded in the west, a team serving Chinese government interests is highly likely to be 100% Chinese people, living in China, landed by Chinese partners. Both because Chinese workers tend to serve Chinese clients and I would guess that the Chinese government requires this. If you were to make such a thing illegal, what would likely happen is the firm would just split into two firms, the Chinese part and the not Chinese part, and it wouldn’t make a ton of difference because most work is driven by individual contributors on an individual basis rather than a large group effort from an entity like Google.
[+] [-] mrosett|6 years ago|reply
McKinsey has been involved with a lot of bad stuff internationally over the last decade or two. Monitor's work with Gaddafi was also really gross. There's an odd dichotomy though - the ex-McKinsey employees I know personally and work closely with are all very thoughtful, ethical people.
[+] [-] mantap|6 years ago|reply
China is trapped. They are stuck with this democratic appendix attached to a communist body. China can't keep Hong Kong under a democratic system as they have zero understanding of democracy. But if they try to repress it they risk endangering China's relationships with the rest of the world. They made a mistake thinking they could transform a democratic territory into a communist one without any consequences.
[+] [-] harshreality|6 years ago|reply
I thought China was smarter than this. I thought they would realize the value of Hong Kong. Apparently China doesn't want Hong Kong. They want to remove the perennial thorn in their side, that democratic city-state of Chinese heritage right on their border. They want to grind it into dust, slowly if possible, but immediately if Hong Kong makes too much fuss about the pestle. They want to remove the painful reminder of [their losses during] the Opium Wars and British influence in the Sinosphere. They want to do that at any cost, including destroying Hong Kong's culture and attractiveness as a business location.
This is the height of tragedy. There will never be another place like it, and China is destroying it out of spite and ideological inflexibility.
[+] [-] morningseagulls|6 years ago|reply
Nope. Like Palestine, it'd just be another showcase of the British strategy of "divide and quit". Heck, someone wrote a book about it:
https://www.amazon.com/Divide-Quit-late-Penderel-Moon/dp/019...
[+] [-] _bxg1|6 years ago|reply
China in 2019 is a simple fascist dictatorship.
Edit: Fixed a broken link
[+] [-] ahbyb|6 years ago|reply
Will it? Because nobody gives a fuck about Palestine, and Israel is not suffering much (or at all) because of what they did and do.
[+] [-] mrybczyn|6 years ago|reply
I doubt I'll renew - since the root cause is unlikely to be fixed with any PR expedient move at this point. They have shown the world where their true nature lies - and it ain't good. Cancel yours if you have them...
[+] [-] _bxg1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shadowgovt|6 years ago|reply
Can't march with no marching orders.
[+] [-] throwaway2048|6 years ago|reply
Blizzard has already apologized to China publicly however.
[+] [-] cwkoss|6 years ago|reply
I'd like to try to avoid giving money to China, but they are so ingrained into the American economy I'm not sure how to do this in practice.
[+] [-] nsporillo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Quanttek|6 years ago|reply
That's why we need unions in the software industry. Via collectivized action, the power differential between employer and employees is leveled. This is not only about collective bargaining, being able to enforce adequate labor standards (e.g. no/less/compensated "crunch" time), but also about being able to force company policy. If the majority of employees would strike/walk out and any negative repercussions against individuals would be met with more strikes, Blizzard would very quickly change.
[+] [-] atarian|6 years ago|reply
So less than 1% of the company? Not trying to minimize the issue here but let's also not make events sound bigger than they really are.
[+] [-] beirut_bootleg|6 years ago|reply
Thinking that numbers is all that matters is the same as valuing $$$ over morals, which is what this is all about.
[+] [-] master-litty|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lsniddy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ahaferburg|6 years ago|reply
I remember it being mentioned in the "Work rules" book by that Google guy. They had a desert in their canteen called "Free Tibet Goji-Chocolate Creme Pie..." in the canteen. They said "well, the food is free, and the berries come from Tibet, so ..." Trying to be cheeky. But several people threatened to quit over this, and they had a huge discussion on the internal mailing list with over 1300 replies. The chef who created it got suspended, and then people got worried because of the chilling effect that this would have on free speech. Eventually the suspension was reversed. Very dramatic.
[+] [-] TDL|6 years ago|reply
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/richard-gere-ho...
[+] [-] madez|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sgt101|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icu|6 years ago|reply
"We are very angered and disappointed at what happened at the event and do not condone it in any way. We also highly object the spreading of personal political beliefs in this manner. Effective immediately we've banned the contestant from events and terminated work with the broadcasters. We will always respect and defend the pride of our country."
If true, the Chinese side of Blizzard is anti-Western values and the US corporate side is ultimately responsible for allowing the situation to happen.
As the US/China trade war drags on, as the HK protests continue, I think US corporations will have to choose between profits or values. Some brands and reputations will be reinforced, others--like Blizzard--will take a massive hit.
[+] [-] gtirloni|6 years ago|reply
Boycotting Chinese products on the other hand...
[+] [-] dmix|6 years ago|reply
The link says the statue that was made in China, heh.
[+] [-] nyxyn|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvt|6 years ago|reply
It looks like China learned nothing from the USSR (or from their own Great Leap Forward, for that matter). Escalation is not going to go their way. Hawkish members of the CCP are going to blow the whole thing up.
This is much bigger than Activision-Blizzard and it's clear that Western companies are going to have to pick a side soon. There's a very salient conflict between Wall Street and the Classical Liberal underpinnings of our modern democracies. As it stands right now, this is going to get worse before it gets better. Is anyone worried about the HKD/USD peg falling?
[+] [-] mortenjorck|6 years ago|reply
I would imagine there are thousands of businesses with varying degrees of exposure to the Chinese market whose executives are on pins and needles right now, desperately hoping no circumstance arises that will require them to publicly take a side on this issue.
Businesses with less exposure or fewer ambitions in China might have a lower barrier to standing firm if pushed, but those with the most to lose in the Chinese market are staring down a very real, very imminent choice between taking a major hit to either their revenues or their ethical credibility.
[+] [-] ganitarashid|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] anon1m0us|6 years ago|reply
Why are we so up in arms about this? Why not before this?
Well, because we were insulated from China's behavior. Their heavy handed approach only affected their own citizens. They jailed their own citizens, but not Americans, not other people.
We got our supply chain from them and they gave us what we wanted, so we're good.
However! Now China's tyranny is leaking out of China. It's getting into arenas where we are. You could have been playing that game. You could have said something that offended China -- maybe without even knowing it.
Plus, they are in our IoT devices, our iphones, our cameras. China is watching and controlling us now. They are restricting our access to games -- not just their own people.
The culture and rules of countries don't exist solely within the borders of that country.
This is new for Americans. It's not new for the rest of the world. What USA wanted, USA got.
Now, what China wants, China gets -- even if it's not what we want.
[+] [-] nec4b|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]