This happens because Amazon allows inventory commingling. For example Amazon has their own, legitimate inventory in a West Coast warehouse, and a third party seller has the same inventory with the original UPC manufacturer bar code on it, sitting in an East Coast warehouse. Amazon considers this 1:1 inventory. Amazon will debit their inventory on the West Coast, and credit the inventory that belongs to the third party seller on the East Coast but they will send the inventory from the East Coast to the customer since it's closer to them.
Now in theory this seems like a reasonable approach to deliver products to customers faster, the catch 22 is that third party vendors have clearly taken advantage of Amazon's complete lack of quality control. Third party sellers can sign up for a Seller Central account, and send in counterfeit products with fake bar codes because Amazon doesn't check at all.
I could sit here and talk for hours about mess that is Seller Central. I've dabbled with Fulfilled by Amazon (FBA), and I would never recommend any company use AMZN for third party logistics.
This is probably old news to seasoned Seller Central users, but I was surprised how easy it was to "take over" product pages from already existing products.
Our sales figures definitely weren't high. I think it may have been related to how much stock we had for all the sizes of the product.
Soon the product images and descriptions we provided became the canonical version and overrode whatever was there before. Even previous customer reviews from other sellers would continue to be shown on was what now basically our product page.
It might be the result of a clever trick by Amazon, but it makes Amazon directly responsible for selling fakes. Even without this, Amazon should be taking more responsibility to fight counterfeit products, but with this, they're making themselves directly responsible, and I don't see how they're not criminally liable now.
Instead of hoping for Amazon to make this slightly less bad, I think legal action is called for at this point.
Unfortunately this case may be a bit different. When you order this book by pressing just the Buy button, as in shipped and sold by Amazon, you get the counterfeit.
I know because I ordered two copies last week. Both came and both were counterfeit.
Indeed - and there have been cases of dangerous goods being shipped, e.g. counterfeit chargers.
I've stopped buying things from Amazon and instead gone back to using bricks and mortar stores with online presences and do click and collect, there's just too much crap to sift through these days.
Can people who know they got a knock-off return the item for a legit copy? Don’t know if the counterfeit volume is high enough to force Amazon to care...
I have been a frequent Amazon customer since 2000 and no longer order anything expensive or safety related (including things like USB chargers or any baby related furniture) from Amazon. I just no longer trust them at all to not be shipping counterfeit or unsafe goods. I've even started going to Best Buy to purchase certain peripherals that I needed on short notice because of this. Besides, at the rate my wife has bought stuff and then sent it back - paying the return shipping fee - we would come out ahead shopping local anyway for her cloths and things.
I recently purchased 2 Lenovo 65w USB-C chargers. One came shrink-wrapped in a legitimate Lenovo box. The other was in a plain cardboard box with a prominent "Made in China" as its only branding. These were sold from the very same product page.
When I told Amazon, I had to go to UPS to return the fake product to them to receive my refund, so not only do I have to purchase it again (obviously not from Amazon), I have to go to a store to send it back to them -- defeating the whole purpose of ordering it online to begin with.
I've received fake books and other things before as well. Each time I reported it to Amazon, and each time nothing happens.
This is completely unacceptable, and I just now cancelled my Prime membership, which I had since pretty much day one.
Daimler AG’s lawsuit, filed in 2017, over allegedly counterfeit Mercedes-Benz wheel caps that were, similarly, sold by Amazon.com and not a third party, is apparently still pending:
As an aside, why does nearly every Twitter link take you to a page not found thus requiring a reload? This is a terrible user experience that should be easy to fix.
Oh, when I open Twitter in Firefox on Android tweets fail to load in 95% of the cases, however the Twitter site itself loads fine enough to show me a Retry button I can press to fail at loading the tweet again. All the while accessing via 'app' and even embedded tweets on 3rd-party sites load fine. Can't recall when this started; must have been some time in 2018.
On the desktop (in Firefox also, same addons and addon config too) things always work (as far as that can be said for a site as horribly slow as theirs).
They have been completely below the bar in terms of UX for a long time now, at least for me. They used to have a lean, good/available and fast site, and now they don't.
It's worse than that...they provide a reload button even that does absolutely nothing, requiring you to manually reload the page. With all the money they've spent on engineering, it's mystifying why their system is such a dumpster fire.
I've wondered the same thing. It seems to only happen on mobile browsers, and on both iOS and Android. I wonder if people who are logged in are subject to the same?
I always thought this was some sort of rate limiting that twitter applies to visits from aggregators like reddit or hn. I'm not sure how I originally made that assumption, though.
Firefox on iOS simply won’t show me Twitter any more, even in private mode. Always says “something went wrong,” no matter how many times I reload. Oh well, didn’t need it anyway.
Check this product out. It's made in a chinese guy's garage in northern california using equipment he imported in 2014.
It doesn't have legitimate GMP or FDA licensing.
This is the kind of problem we are talking about.
And the issue is worse than it appears, just as toast0 mentioned, because the same exact product with same product page and AMAZON barcode, NO UPC, is also in the online walmart marketplace now! Amazon so controls the market that the other companies just do whatever amazon does. This is a literal antitrust situation we are in- sherman act violations.
There are international food products on amazon marked "made for/picked exclusively for amazon". That's a violation of the FTC act.
We are in a situation where our government is failing to regulate.
I had turned to Target for online shopping, and recommended it to others, but now they’re opening their site to third-party sellers too. They’re claiming they’ll be more selective about who they allow on their platform, but it’s still a worrying development.
Amazon is a TRILLION dollar company with 230 billion in Revenue and over 10 billion in Profits. Bezos himself is worth over 100 billion dollars. Amazon is a technology leader.
I normally am not a "wealth-hater" or whatever you want to call it, but Amazon (and Bezos personally) are on a whole different level. This is NOT a cash-strapped mom-and-pop struggling to understand a complex marketplace. This is a company so large it created and controls the marketplace. Depending on the day, this could be the most valuable company in the world and Bezos is the richest person on the planet. There are few, if any, companies with more skills, knowledge and resources.
The magnitude of the existing wealth in comparison to the relative pittance it would cost to put a stop to this it what makes it so shameful.
I have been selling books for the last decade and started seeing an influx of counterfeit books on Amazon about two years ago.
I've even gotten cease and desist letters from lawyers representing the top publishers because I resold a few by mistake.
The worst part is that there is no clear way to tell if a book is counterfeit, the publishers wont actually tell you specifics, and the only way to know for sure is to send the book to the publisher.
When you send it to the publisher, you will get an answer in about 6 months (yes/no) and the answer is always yes.
You have no way to get your original money back for the counterfeit and nothing is learned about how to more easily detect counterfeits.
I feel like this is intentionally vague so they can go after anyone for counterfeits and there is really no way to know if you have a counterfeit or not without a lengthy court case.
I finally had to get an attorney involved and I just had to pass along Amazon seller information. They went away and I haven't had any issues since then (about 2 years ago).
If I had to take a guess this is related to books that have illegal PDF(s) in the wild. Paired with Amazon making little to no effort to verify product authenticity.
Just this year, one of my team members ordered a Blue Yeti microphone off Amazon. We were in a WebRTC meeting when it arrived and I watched him excitedly open it and his facial expression turn sour because it was a glass jar in a Blue Yeti box!!! The sadder part is he left it in the kitchen at his home with the intention of dealing with it later and his dad, not knowing what it was threw it out with the garbage. There was nothing my team member could do or return to Amazon to prove of the fraud. He ended up buying again from another retailer, completely out of the money spent on the first order.
I just ordered a carbon monoxide detector from Amazon, supposedly shipped from the manufacturer. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t immediately think of Amazon’s many counterfeit scandals before ultimately ordering it as I do most things, out of habit. Still, this is a thing for which silent failure is catastrophic, so maybe I’ll send it back tomorrow.
I stopped buying books from amazon since 2016. Bought an 80$ technical book that came as if it was printed from a pdf. Equations are barely readable. I made a review with pictures and no action has been taken. I have been buying from the local retailer since then.
My business partners and I had a satire book published through Amazon's platform for a couple years. This past spring the book gained some viral traction thanks to Unilad (or similar site - I forget which), but that attention led to copycats submitting a takedown notice on the book before republishing our book as their own.
The appeal process was a complete joke; we had to get a lawyer involved to get Amazon to release the royalties it withheld because of the take-down.
Shipped and sold by Amazon is meaningless. Just search for "Amazon 3rd party commingling" Basically everything with the same UPC or SKU code is put into the same bin in the warehouses, regardless of where it came from. So legit and counterfeit inventory is stored in the same bin. When you order something it is the luck of the draw (literally) what you will get.
This is a problem for anything Amazon sells, not just books. I play board games and counterfeit board games are very very common. So much so that I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a boardgame from Amazon. Buy them from Cool Stuff Inc, Miniature Market, Cardhaus, etc. instead.
Incidentally, just this past week we allowed our Prime membership to lapse and don't plan on renewing it. With problems like this one, its just not worth it anymore.
Amazon leans heavily on convenience to sell lots of stuff. If I have to read a handful of reviews and cross my fingers whenever getting a legitimate product is important, is it really so convenient?
So far the market says yes, but I sure would move elsewhere if there was an elsewhere.
> For inventory tracked with the manufacturer barcode, each seller’s sourced inventory of the same ASIN is stored separately in our fulfillment centers. We can also track the original seller of each unit.
> To fulfill your orders exclusively with your inventory, you can switch to the Amazon barcode at any time (see Changing your barcode setting below).
It seems vendors can choose to have their items commingled or not. Commingling allows them to possibly offer faster deliveries, and they don't need to add extra barcodes to their products.
Even if comingling is enabled, it seems it's not exactly what HN had made me believe. Amazon still tracks and separately manage each seller's inventory, but might choose to ship you another's seller item if it is closer to you for faster delivery. Again, sellers can opt out of this if they don't want it.
It seems some products aren't allowed to be commingled:
> To qualify, products must: Be in new condition. Have only one scannable barcode that is matched to one ASIN in the Amazon catalog. Have no expiration date. Not be consumable or topical products such as skin creams, shampoos, or cosmetics. Not be dangerous goods.
I think beyond offering sellers the option to opt out of comingling, I'd like to see it offered to buyers as well. At checkout, it could let me know that I have the choice to get it from my chosen vendor's stock which would result in X days delivery time. Or to get it from alternate vendor Y for Z faster days delivery.
[+] [-] mariomariomario|6 years ago|reply
Now in theory this seems like a reasonable approach to deliver products to customers faster, the catch 22 is that third party vendors have clearly taken advantage of Amazon's complete lack of quality control. Third party sellers can sign up for a Seller Central account, and send in counterfeit products with fake bar codes because Amazon doesn't check at all.
I could sit here and talk for hours about mess that is Seller Central. I've dabbled with Fulfilled by Amazon (FBA), and I would never recommend any company use AMZN for third party logistics.
[+] [-] lawkwok|6 years ago|reply
Our sales figures definitely weren't high. I think it may have been related to how much stock we had for all the sizes of the product.
Soon the product images and descriptions we provided became the canonical version and overrode whatever was there before. Even previous customer reviews from other sellers would continue to be shown on was what now basically our product page.
[+] [-] mcv|6 years ago|reply
Instead of hoping for Amazon to make this slightly less bad, I think legal action is called for at this point.
[+] [-] nextos|6 years ago|reply
I have stopped using Amazon after 15 years due to the unacceptably high rate of counterfeit, grey market or used items I got on a daily basis.
It's totally insane. I have even emailed Jeff Bezos and got into the trouble of talking to all middle managers. They don't care.
[+] [-] beerandt|6 years ago|reply
Supply chain control.
Amazon may continue to dominate AWS and even the 3rd party marketplace, but they've already ruined their brand reputation as a supplier.
Edit: Sold and shipped 3rd party marketplace may survive.
[+] [-] billpollock|6 years ago|reply
I know because I ordered two copies last week. Both came and both were counterfeit.
[+] [-] philjohn|6 years ago|reply
I've stopped buying things from Amazon and instead gone back to using bricks and mortar stores with online presences and do click and collect, there's just too much crap to sift through these days.
[+] [-] mc32|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stephencanon|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rietta|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hellcow|6 years ago|reply
I recently purchased 2 Lenovo 65w USB-C chargers. One came shrink-wrapped in a legitimate Lenovo box. The other was in a plain cardboard box with a prominent "Made in China" as its only branding. These were sold from the very same product page.
When I told Amazon, I had to go to UPS to return the fake product to them to receive my refund, so not only do I have to purchase it again (obviously not from Amazon), I have to go to a store to send it back to them -- defeating the whole purpose of ordering it online to begin with.
I've received fake books and other things before as well. Each time I reported it to Amazon, and each time nothing happens.
This is completely unacceptable, and I just now cancelled my Prime membership, which I had since pretty much day one.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] wsh|6 years ago|reply
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6173730/daimler-ag-v-am...
The complaint:
https://www.pacermonitor.com/view/EY4BP4Y/Daimler_AG_v_Amazo...
[+] [-] ikeboy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mjfern|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ikeboy|6 years ago|reply
Terrible engineering on their part.
[+] [-] 2ion|6 years ago|reply
On the desktop (in Firefox also, same addons and addon config too) things always work (as far as that can be said for a site as horribly slow as theirs).
They have been completely below the bar in terms of UX for a long time now, at least for me. They used to have a lean, good/available and fast site, and now they don't.
[+] [-] axaxs|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notelonmusk|6 years ago|reply
> Clicks button
> Nothing happens
> Right Click Inspect Element
> Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete
Revenue US$3.04 billion Operating income US$453 million Net income Increase US$1.2 billion Total assets US$10.16 billion Total equity US$6.8 billion
> Hmm...
[+] [-] throwawaysea|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alienallys|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanlol|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mffnbs|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Scramblejams|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andyfleming|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ohgreatwtf|6 years ago|reply
Check this product out. It's made in a chinese guy's garage in northern california using equipment he imported in 2014.
It doesn't have legitimate GMP or FDA licensing.
This is the kind of problem we are talking about.
And the issue is worse than it appears, just as toast0 mentioned, because the same exact product with same product page and AMAZON barcode, NO UPC, is also in the online walmart marketplace now! Amazon so controls the market that the other companies just do whatever amazon does. This is a literal antitrust situation we are in- sherman act violations.
There are international food products on amazon marked "made for/picked exclusively for amazon". That's a violation of the FTC act. We are in a situation where our government is failing to regulate.
[+] [-] _coveredInBees|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freyir|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] damontal|6 years ago|reply
There's nothing on that link that indicates this. So either you're making it up or back up your statement.
[+] [-] wenc|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bensonn|6 years ago|reply
I normally am not a "wealth-hater" or whatever you want to call it, but Amazon (and Bezos personally) are on a whole different level. This is NOT a cash-strapped mom-and-pop struggling to understand a complex marketplace. This is a company so large it created and controls the marketplace. Depending on the day, this could be the most valuable company in the world and Bezos is the richest person on the planet. There are few, if any, companies with more skills, knowledge and resources.
The magnitude of the existing wealth in comparison to the relative pittance it would cost to put a stop to this it what makes it so shameful.
[+] [-] markus_zhang|6 years ago|reply
My local Chapters (A Canadian bookstore) closed door a few years ago, and some second-hand shops also closed their doors since then.
[+] [-] remotecool|6 years ago|reply
I've even gotten cease and desist letters from lawyers representing the top publishers because I resold a few by mistake.
The worst part is that there is no clear way to tell if a book is counterfeit, the publishers wont actually tell you specifics, and the only way to know for sure is to send the book to the publisher.
When you send it to the publisher, you will get an answer in about 6 months (yes/no) and the answer is always yes.
You have no way to get your original money back for the counterfeit and nothing is learned about how to more easily detect counterfeits.
I feel like this is intentionally vague so they can go after anyone for counterfeits and there is really no way to know if you have a counterfeit or not without a lengthy court case.
I finally had to get an attorney involved and I just had to pass along Amazon seller information. They went away and I haven't had any issues since then (about 2 years ago).
[+] [-] awat|6 years ago|reply
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/amazo...
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jbay808|6 years ago|reply
I don't think there's a PDF for that controls textbook anywhere, so clearly the counterfeiter just substituted in a different one...
[+] [-] rietta|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iends|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danso|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sasaf5|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theaccordance|6 years ago|reply
The appeal process was a complete joke; we had to get a lawyer involved to get Amazon to release the royalties it withheld because of the take-down.
[+] [-] irrational|6 years ago|reply
This is a problem for anything Amazon sells, not just books. I play board games and counterfeit board games are very very common. So much so that I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a boardgame from Amazon. Buy them from Cool Stuff Inc, Miniature Market, Cardhaus, etc. instead.
Incidentally, just this past week we allowed our Prime membership to lapse and don't plan on renewing it. With problems like this one, its just not worth it anymore.
[+] [-] gesman|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KibbutzDalia|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onfe|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sitkack|6 years ago|reply
https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/
[+] [-] hnick|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alok-g|6 years ago|reply
https://www.aboutamazon.com/our-company/our-positions
[+] [-] didibus|6 years ago|reply
> To fulfill your orders exclusively with your inventory, you can switch to the Amazon barcode at any time (see Changing your barcode setting below).
Source: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480?...
It seems vendors can choose to have their items commingled or not. Commingling allows them to possibly offer faster deliveries, and they don't need to add extra barcodes to their products.
Even if comingling is enabled, it seems it's not exactly what HN had made me believe. Amazon still tracks and separately manage each seller's inventory, but might choose to ship you another's seller item if it is closer to you for faster delivery. Again, sellers can opt out of this if they don't want it.
It seems some products aren't allowed to be commingled:
> To qualify, products must: Be in new condition. Have only one scannable barcode that is matched to one ASIN in the Amazon catalog. Have no expiration date. Not be consumable or topical products such as skin creams, shampoos, or cosmetics. Not be dangerous goods.
I think beyond offering sellers the option to opt out of comingling, I'd like to see it offered to buyers as well. At checkout, it could let me know that I have the choice to get it from my chosen vendor's stock which would result in X days delivery time. Or to get it from alternate vendor Y for Z faster days delivery.