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Google Announces Nest WiFi

99 points| aminecodes | 6 years ago |blog.google | reply

115 comments

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[+] ssully|6 years ago|reply
I got a single Google WiFi router (home is small enough to not need the mesh) last year to pretty terrible results. I mainly got it for more frequent firmware updates, and easy administration via their phone app (easier to use then my Netgear Nighthawk; i.e. can show my wife how to use it).

Everything worked great with it for the first few months, but then I started getting severe speed drops - specifically I was seeing download rates of 20MBps or less, when I should be getting 350MBps or less. I did all of their recommended troubleshooting (reset router, reset modem, restore to factory settings and reupdate the firmware, move router away from potential sources of interference, etc) and could not solve the issue. I still had my Nighthawk and ended up spending an afternoon testing the two, and the Google WiFi router would consistently drop speeds, while the Nighthawk stayed rock solid.

I ended up just sticking with my Nighthawk and throwing my Google Wifi in a drawer. I was outside their return window, and honestly just had no desire to try and go through Google's customer service (or finding out if it even exists for their WiFi devices). Long story short, it was the worst experience I've ever had with a router and I would hesitate to ever try their WiFi devices again.

[+] lbotos|6 years ago|reply
Ya know, I'm literally experiencing this right now and It's befuddling. For the past week or so, I've been using fast.com and only from my Macbook Pro do I see the speed drop. My phone on wifi only will maintain 200Mbps++ I'm really mad because it's been seamless until now.
[+] bobbyi_settv|6 years ago|reply
I have Google Wifi and its mostly been great.

I don't think it makes sense if you don't need mesh; the whole point of the thing really is that it is the easiest way to set up a home mesh network (or maybe it isn't, but in the research I did before buying it, it seemed to be the most popular and recommended, which is why I got it even though I was skeptical of buying wifi from google).

I've seen speed drop offs twice in about a year of using it, which is my only problem with it. In both cases they were related to mesh: if located in the room with the main router, I'd still get 100+MBps, but when I was in range of the other AP's, it dropped to ~3MBps and the app was reported the mesh connectivity was poor where it is usually "great". In both cases, I rebooted the AP's (via the app) and it instantly fixed it.

[+] josefresco|6 years ago|reply
I have a Nighthawk and think the mobile app is pretty simple/useful. I'm curious, what was it the Google offering had that the Netgear didn't offer / do well?
[+] blablaz|6 years ago|reply
Does it mean when Google bans your account, you will lose your wifi as well?
[+] hysan|6 years ago|reply
Or if they decide that they don't recognize you anymore that you're forever locked out of your account?
[+] tyingq|6 years ago|reply
"The Nest Wifi point also has a speaker with the Google Assistant"

Ahh. I see.

[+] ve55|6 years ago|reply
I thought it was funny they said "has a speaker with the Google Assistant" rather than "has a microphone listening to you for Google Assistant"
[+] cbolton|6 years ago|reply
What are you suggesting exactly? Presumably the buyers are happy to have a product with the described features, which include "Google Assistant", which answers to your voice.
[+] IshKebab|6 years ago|reply
I don't. I assume you're talking about privacy but it's basically the same as for your phone.
[+] martin-adams|6 years ago|reply
I don't really have a lot of trust with Google to deliver a great consumer product in this area. I switched from Alexa to Google Home and just because I'm a GSuite customer, I have lost the ability to access my calendar or set reminders. It's like they just wanted to tick a few boxes to show a cool concept, then forgot to make a well rounded product out of it.
[+] disgruntledphd2|6 years ago|reply
Honestly, I often get the impression that no Google PM's actually use their products. They look nice, but never work effectively.
[+] jumpingmice|6 years ago|reply
Which part do you doubt: the assistant or the wifi? I never use the assistant stuff but the wifi is great.

Gsuite accounts never work right with every product google launches, often get features late or never. Many google products have _never_ become available for gsuite accounts.

[+] jayd16|6 years ago|reply
Using GSuite accounts for their consumer product is always really consistent. Consistently bad...
[+] scarejunba|6 years ago|reply
I use Google Home with a 'normal' Google account and have my GSuite calendar events synchronize via Zapier.
[+] dannyw|6 years ago|reply
I like my routers dumb and without a speaker and microphone.
[+] zrail|6 years ago|reply
Personally I like my routers smart and in a rack in the basement. Agreed on the lack of speaker and microphone though.
[+] jcadam|6 years ago|reply
Yea, I don't like all-in-one Router/Switch/WAP/Gateway devices anymore either. All of those functions are separate devices at my house. Now the only one of those things that's a PITA to replace is the Router.
[+] dev_dull|6 years ago|reply
> You can get a two pack with one router and one point for $269

No mention of whether it supports 802.11ax. Why are WiFi devices lagging in speed advancements so much?

I ended up purchasing a second hand AirPort Extreme because it’s still one of the best performing 802.11ac devices (in my anecdotal experiences of running a lot of clients)... and it’s OLD!

[+] krisroadruck|6 years ago|reply
It does not support ax/wifi-6 and doesn't even have a dedicated backhaul channel between APs. This is overpriced garbage with 5 year old tech. The only thing "new" about it is they crammed an assistant in it. I am extremely disappoint.
[+] pathartl|6 years ago|reply
My experience with the AirPort Extreme has been terrible to say the least. Over the years I have gone through 4 of them due to some poor design with the hardware. Usually is was the fan failing which caused a massive slowdown to the point where it's not usable. I took it into the Apple Store, they couldn't find the problem, I made a big stink and they gave me a new one. That one survived for another 6 months and failed in the same way.

I switched to Ubiquiti and won't look back. It's cheaper, enterprise grade hardware. If you know anything about networking, setting up the environment isn't that big of a deal, but is definitely a deterrent for some.

[+] themagician|6 years ago|reply
ax is mostly about efficiency, not speed. While it has a much higher peak data throughput that’s often not realized anyway, so somewhat irrelevant.

ax really doesn’t do much for most home networks. In a small network, 802.11n will provide all the throughput necessary to stream most things at 4K. And few people even have a connection faster than ac allows.

ax provides faster speeds for highly congested networks, as well as better battery life for phones. That’s mostly what it’s about. It’s unlikely you’d see a difference between ac or ax on a small home network.

[+] Al-Khwarizmi|6 years ago|reply
True. I need mesh WiFi for my home because it's very long, and I have been waiting for like two years for mesh devices with 802.11ax to come out, as I want the best possible speed and coverage and don't want to spend hundreds of euros in devices that will be obsolete in a few years. And at the moment, nothing seems to have been released, just announcements for the future...

At the end I may run out of patience and just look for something second hand.

[+] scarface74|6 years ago|reply
What’s the maximum speed people are getting in the real world with 802.11ax? I have gigabit internet up/down with an 802.11ac router and I’m getting 420-440 u/d right under the router from both my iPhone and my laptops with 802.11ac.

I get 930 u/d wired.

[+] fjabre|6 years ago|reply
I detest the fact that Google bought Nest. Now I have the pleasure of logging into a convoluted Google UX instead of the familiar Nest UX.

And here we have another intrusion of Google into our home. It's clear Google has no respect for anyone's privacy and is now a part of the problem.

[+] cbolton|6 years ago|reply
Any device like this is an intrusion in the user's home (that the users agrees to), and it seems to me that Google is one of the companies that has the most respect for users' privacy.

Yes they collect a lot of data, but 1) that's exactly what allows them to provide the services that their users want, 2) they are very transparent about it (see My Activity), and 3) they seem to take security more seriously than the competition.

[+] gnicholas|6 years ago|reply
I am less likely to buy a Nest-branded device, now that it's owned by Google. Similarly, I won't buy a Ring device, now that it's owned by Amazon. Sadly, I'm sure folks with leanings like these are the tiny minority of customers, so the market probably won't feel the impact of this preference.

I do my best to support the companies that respect privacy, and I make sure my own startup's products give our customers the privacy that I would want for myself.

I wish there was a certification or something, sort of like b-corp, that could indicate that a product doesn't gather any personal data (as opposed to just being GDPR-compliant, which allows collection but imposes various processing/deletion requirements).

[+] ljcn|6 years ago|reply
Why did you migrate? I was given the option to but haven't (yet, nor been forced to).
[+] untog|6 years ago|reply
So does this mean my Google Wifi router isn’t getting any new updates, or...?
[+] wmf|6 years ago|reply
OnHub still gets updates because it runs the Google Wifi firmware. If we're lucky all three products will continue to be updated.
[+] hwbehrens|6 years ago|reply
Extrapolating from the 3-year update guarantee Google offers for the Pixel line, and the October 2016 launch date of Google WiFi... I don't think you should get your hopes up, sadly.
[+] beaner|6 years ago|reply
Anyone know why they changed it so that you now need a router + repeater, rather than every point being a router and repeater like Google Wifi was? That was much simpler - all units interchangeable. Cost reduction maybe?
[+] TrueDuality|6 years ago|reply
Most likely it was cost reduction to meet competitors. The router needs to do more work handing packets than just store and forward (which is basically all the mesh nodes have to do with packets).

The D-Link Covr series and the Amplifi are probably the best direct competitors for this. Neither require a cloud subscription to work either. Both have "tri-band" which basically just means they actually have a dedicated radio to use as a backhaul (which this doesn't).

The Covr is ~$200 for 2 units and Amplifi is about ~$340 for three units so this is more expensive already than either of what I think of as its direct competitors. The only "feature" that this has the others don't is Google Assistant and in my book the lack of it is a win.

I've personally used the Covr mesh nodes and they're pretty solid and easy to use.

[+] rainyMammoth|6 years ago|reply
Don't buy a Wifi router from Google. We all know that they are incentivized to collect data from you
[+] andruby|6 years ago|reply
I wonder how long untill they pull the plug and people are left with a brick that isn't updated.

For that price, have a look at Ubiquity's Unifi line (and Amplifi). Great router, great AP's, frequent firmware upgrades and no privacy concerns.

[+] Urgo|6 years ago|reply
I've been using the old Google Wifi system for several years now and its been decent.. with two big caveats

1) I hate the mobile only interface. It's nice to have one, but no desktop interface (unless I run an emulator) is really annoying when trying to manage and monitor the network.

2) You need to have a s-H-s type topology where each satellite connects directly to the main unit. Thankfully most areas of my house are hardwired so I can plug them in, but there are some areas that don't have good coverage that I'd love to chain another satellite to, but its too far for it to reach the hub over wifi (no cable is run), and it doesn't support branching off of another satellite.

For the new system it looks like their solution to #1 is to put the controls into an even worse app...

For item #2, anyone know if it will support s-s-s-s-H chaining?

On a related note.. I actually got into a support chat with them once asking about that and their support rep said it didn't work because my cable modem had nat enabled and if I turned that off it'd work great facepalm. After a lengthy discussion he thanked me for teaching him about networking.

[+] acejam|6 years ago|reply
Many of these features appear very similar to Eero[1]. It's a clear battle against Eero/Amazon for market share.

If you're looking for simple rock-solid mesh WiFi, Eero is what you want.

[1] https://eero.com

[+] yalogin|6 years ago|reply
Having to login using a google account is pretty unsettling to me. What happens when I lose access to the account?

Also they now have a verified identity to all my data from my router. I know they will have that anyway given my Gmail sends them the ip, they just have a detailed view of all urls I use and every site I go to and how long i spend there. I bought one and it worked fine but in a few weeks I just couldn’t use it because of this unsettling feeling. Ended up throwing it in the drawer. May be should have returned it instead, oh well.

[+] gnicholas|6 years ago|reply
> Many routers are ugly, which means they get hidden in a closet or cabinet, where the signal is blocked and can be reduced by up to 50 percent.

I never understood why the Apple HomePod didn't have a network-extender functionality. I'm sure it has the necessary hardware, and it would have helped justify the high price. I'm glad to see others are putting these features (smart speaker + wifi extender) together!

[+] prepend|6 years ago|reply
I don’t think I’d ever add a box to my home network that sniffed all traffic and sent it to Google, even if they paid me. Even if it had the functions of a Star Trek replicator.

I’m worried enough now that my Nest is doing bad things, but I can set that up on its own network that only it has access to. Giving Google such access to my home network is scary.

[+] ProZsolt|6 years ago|reply
All the new products use barrel jack for power which is a step backward form USB-C or even from USB MiniB (Home Mini).
[+] spacedog11|6 years ago|reply
How is this different than the already existing Wifi Mesh devices?
[+] albertzeyer|6 years ago|reply
I also wondered about that. From the blog post:

* "making it even better"

* "includes the Google Assistant" (I guess this means its Google Wifi + Google Home combined?)

* "Nest Wifi is more powerful than Google Wifi, delivering up to two times the speed and up to 25 percent better coverage."

I'm a bit wondering why it has the "Nest" name tag.

[+] uniformlyrandom|6 years ago|reply
This probably replaces wifi mesh devices - eventually, or pretty soon, depending on some exec's ambition.
[+] foobarbazetc|6 years ago|reply
Missed opportunity to put out a WiFi 6 device.

Would love one without the microphone, too.