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Pop_OS 19.10

192 points| surfsvammel | 6 years ago |system76.com

127 comments

order
[+] tony|6 years ago|reply
Wanted to chime in and say Pop!_OS is the leader when it comes to HiDPI on Linux I believe.

Especially if you have 4K monitors or a 3K/4K mix where the monitors need a different DPI set.

PopOS uses a system to manage the scaling very well. https://support.system76.com/articles/hidpi-multi-monitor/

The closest comparison I've seen elsewhere is fractional scaling in Gnome 3.32+: https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/FracionalScaling

If you have a configuration / workflow for HiDPI on Linux, it'd be nice to see if there were other options / any other things out there.

[+] minxomat|6 years ago|reply
Thanks for that info. If the OS is pleasent otherwise, I'll switch immediately from elementary OS. Their position on fractional scaling is:

- it's bad because pixel perfectness!

- you're wrong for wanting it

- we don't care that MacOS does it well

So annoying.

[+] axaxs|6 years ago|reply
Can you touch on what features, if any, Pop has added that don't exist in Gnome 3? Genuine question from an observer.
[+] jonny383|6 years ago|reply
Fractional scaling has been available in Ubuntu on both Xorg and Wayland since 19.04.

For Wayland run

gsettings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "['scale-monitor-framebuffer']"

For Xorg run

gsettings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "['x11-randr-fractional-scaling']"

[+] rzzzt|6 years ago|reply
Just played around with it temporarily on Linux, to see if it'd work: use the next integer step for scaling UI, then downsample the result to match the display's actual resolution.

This worked by enabling Virtual Super Resolution for an AMD card on Windows, and an equivalent looking result could be achieved with xrandr incantations. Sadly, the mouse ended up being confined to a subsection of the screen, which was a bug, but that should be fixed now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/8...

[+] chocolatkey|6 years ago|reply
The multiple-DPI monitor support has been holding me back from Linux for a long time. Is it possible to install this on other distributions?
[+] zwaps|6 years ago|reply
I have been using PopOS on my secondary, private laptop for two years. I installed it on a whim, and it just works for me. Nothing spectacular, just polished. Always been happy with it.

Perhaps that's the biggest compliment for an OS?

[+] jasoneckert|6 years ago|reply
I'll chime in here to show my support for Pop!_OS. Simply put, I like it so much, that it's been the host OS on my 2013 Mac Pro tube since early this year: https://triosdevelopers.com/jason.eckert/blog/Entries/2019/3...
[+] robbya|6 years ago|reply
Great picture post. I've been curious about Pop for a while and I've had similar frustrations to what you mention. I also appreciate the mention that it works better outside a VM, I'll skip that.
[+] marmaduke|6 years ago|reply
I recently installed CentOS 7.7 onto a Dell Latitude 5290 (Dell's equivalent of the ThinkPad x280) and found everything (audio, suspend wake, wifi, caméra, nvme) just works, and it gets twice the battery life as on Windows 10.

I'm happy to see really nice marketing on Linux as a desktop OS but it seems over the top these days.

[+] passthejoe|6 years ago|reply
Many things happen in the Linux kernel. It doesn't matter which distro you use as long as the kernel supports your hardware. Lots of distros have taken credit for things that happen outside of what they do.
[+] andrepd|6 years ago|reply
Imagine Development as a First-Class Citizen

The cloud and devices of the future are running Linux. Accelerate your productivity by developing on the same platform that you deploy to. Your tools and programming languages are supported natively and only a command away.

??? I scrolled all the way down and I'm still not sure what the heck is this supposed to be. The selling points are window snapping, workspaces, and... a script to install tensorflow? It's all so bizarre.

We’re focusing on you in a different way than anyone else. Our approach centers on user testing and careful analysis with the singular goal of delivering the most productive and gorgeous platform for developing your next creation. It’s not just about making the easiest tool, it’s about making the best tool. And we’re just getting started.

Nope, still not making sense.

Discover what’s possible at the cross-roads of IOT and AI.

Oh, please just stop.

[+] currymj|6 years ago|reply
use it every day, very pleasant distribution for a scientific workstation, especially the great nvidia driver support.

the overall design seems to be for a knowledgeable computer user, but one who has no interest in configuring things.

[+] phren0logy|6 years ago|reply
I have found this to be a great option for local deep learning. Painless install of nVidia drivers, CUDA, tensorflow, etc. Also works well for playing games through Steam.
[+] johnday|6 years ago|reply
No real indictment on the quality of the OS nor on the effort that people have put into the project, but why, oh why, did they pick a name which has two different special characters in it?

It looks like they're trying hard to push this OS but they seem to have hurt their chances of SEO by creating a name which is both unpronouncable (pop exclamation mark underscore OS) and unsearchable.

[+] colonwqbang|6 years ago|reply
While I agree the name is silly, it seems to work in Google. Both "pop os" and "pop!_os" returned their page as the first result for me.
[+] fuzzfactor|6 years ago|reply
It gets worse.

When mounting the Intel ISO in Windows the resulting CASPER_P.10_ folder does not match the

/casper_pop-os_19.10_amd64_intel_debug_21/ path designation for vmlinuz, initrd, & live-media-path found in boot\grub\grub.cfg & isolinux\isolinux.cfg

IOW, mounts as a disk fileset of questionable bootability, confirmed fundamentally failing by SYSLINUX over USB.

Even though it boots when burned to optical disk.

This is an insidious defect, not present in the underlying Ubuntu distribution.

Long folder names and/or special characters do not seem to be an ideal approach.

[+] dajohnson89|6 years ago|reply
it's something of a trend in music, to have special characters in the artist's name. especially with "underground" acts, it's almost like the more unpronounceable or SEO-able the name is, the cooler you are.

at any rate, Yahoo! worked out ok, until it didn't.

[+] mattl|6 years ago|reply
I thought maybe to match the length of “Ubuntu” but I guess not.
[+] norswap|6 years ago|reply
Is it me or is it so weird that this "OS" (Linux distro) made by a laptop seller (admittedly, with a nerd clientele in mind) has for top selling point bundling a tool to manage your tensorflow installation?

Also mentions of blockchain and IoT make this page look like a buzzword bingo.

[+] kstenerud|6 years ago|reply
TBH, I took one look at the marketroid speak on the landing page and said "Hell no."

But then I skimmed the HN discussion and found the following links:

https://triosdevelopers.com/jason.eckert/blog/Entries/2019/3...

https://pop.system76.com/docs/difference-between-pop-ubuntu/

Now I'm intrigued, and will try installing it on my laptop today.

[+] johnisgood|6 years ago|reply
> The feedback from power users has been amazing - I’ll agree with the popular slogan for Pop!_OS as “the best OS for developers” wholeheartedly. I can install it and start working. No need to install Nvidia drivers, worry about LUKS disk encryption or customizing my desktop at all. It’s perfect, and I am faster than on Pop!_OS for general productivity than on Windows (and a LOT faster than on macOS).

Oh come on. I will never understand this. For your desktop, surely you can afford to spend an hour configuring your system that should work for over a decade. I lost it at installing NVIDIA drivers, is it that difficult or time-consuming or what the heck? :D As far as full disk encryption goes, I would rather do it manually using Arch's wiki than trust someone else with it, especially because there are MANY ways to do it, and they probably had no plausible deniability in mind, which is a nope for anyone who is serious about it. There are lots of different layouts, parameters, and so on. But OK, for people who cannot install NVIDIA drivers or are not willing to spend a minute doing that, then yeah, sure, why not...

[+] stanislavb|6 years ago|reply
Is there someone here who migrated from Mac OS to Pop!_OS? If yes, what was your experience and what did you miss?
[+] bmoyles|6 years ago|reply
I switched from a Mac to a Thinkpad running Pop a bit over a year ago.

I miss the Mac trackpad and gestures. I miss the trackpad size and the surface itself. Wiring up libinput-gestures helps some things but you still don't get things like pinch to zoom in Chrome, for example, and the overall experience is not nearly as polished.

I miss Mac OS HiDPI support as well. Fractional scaling helps a bit, but switching from HiDPI to LoDPI and vice-versa (docking/undocking) can leave some apps scaled incorrectly, make a mess of your desktop, and I haven't been able to get a mixed configuration working where only my laptop monitor is scaled while my external display is not. I end up running this 1440p laptop screen at 1600x900 or 1920x1080 instead just to forgo the headache.

The VPN clients we use at work were much more pleasant to use on macOS. We have the option of using one of two different OpenVPN solutions as alternatives, and they're fine, but again, the polish isn't there (little things like automatically reconnecting to the VPN without my intervention would be nice).

I can't really think of anything else I'm really missing these days, though. Things I explicitly DON'T miss: Docker on Mac is a poor experience compared to natively running on Linux... Having a real Linux userspace by default is SO much more pleasant than dealing with Homebrew (which is great if you absolutely need it but I'm happier not having to deal with it at all anymore). I don't miss the Mac keyboard and touchbar. I don't miss troubleshooting things on macOS... it is incredibly opaque in comparison.

Overall, I don't think I'll be switching back any time soon, but would love to see more attention to the overall fit and finish as far as the desktop experience goes.

[+] skrap|6 years ago|reply
I moved from Mac to Pop (on a Dell XPS 9750 w/ 4k screen) about 3 months ago. Honestly the OS has been pretty much fine. When I installed it was on Pop 19.04, and I had to manually update to kernel 5.3 in order to get some hardware support, but now that kernel is included in Pop 19.10.

I find the contacts/calendars/mail programs to be overall less functional than Mac OS. Not terrible, but it is taking some time to learn the sharp edges to avoid. Geary is their default mail client, but it doesn't support a unified inbox, and I have a lot of email accounts, so I bounced between a bunch of other clients before finally settling on Evolution. Evolution feels like a bad Windows business suite from the late 90s, but the fact is that it has the functionality I need, and I think I can learn to avoid its oddities.

Besides that, everything about it is very familiar to a mac convert. You can see clear areas where strong inspiration was taken from the Mac. It's honestly breathtakingly good, and it's free. I haven't looked back.

Overall, I'd say you should pick up a System 76 Laptop and give it a go. If the Darter Pro had been around when I was switching, I'd certainly have bought that.

[+] mushufasa|6 years ago|reply
I'm actually currently using both at the same time on different laptops.

The biggest thing I miss -- font rendering. Font rendering is all messed up in linux. It's painful to read pdfs, emails, browse the web. I've tried all sorts of configuration options and it's still broken. Really, it grates me. Things just look off.

On Pop! (old thinkpad), typing gives me joy, and I live in the terminal / use vimium browser bindings / snap windows around. I prefer this machine for editing code / hacking.

On Mac, swiping around is frictionless. I use hot corners, gestures, and have trackpad sensitivity at the highest. No need for vim outside of editing code, and I default to GUI workflows. The screen is much better, and prefer watching videos.

My VPN setup and all that jazz is just as easy on either machine.

[+] bruncun|6 years ago|reply
Snappier UI and more stability. Has what I need for web dev. Starbucks wifi did not work out the box but summoning the correct incantation was easy enough. Never completely migrated over (music, photos, keychain) because of laziness. Miss using voice commands on one device and having it sync data with the rest of my devices (Apple TV, Mac, and iPhone). Ideally, I would replace all my devices so I could regain this functionality. Recently came back to Mac OS for work. After about a month, I'm finding myself using my System76 Lemur more and more.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[+] neor|6 years ago|reply
I switched recently and I love it. Clean interface, and some good tweaks on top of Ubuntu.

Main reason for switching was better docker support/performance. Don’t really miss anything.

Some say Pop is the best for HiDPI screens, but personally I’ve disabled the entire HiDPI Daemon, with a triple monitor setup it was really buggy and slow so I decided to just take the shortcut and change the resolution of my laptop screen to make it readable.

[+] anewguy9000|6 years ago|reply
just popping in to say thank you to the dev team if youre seeing this. pop os is slick. i ditched win10 for it and it gives me a hope for the linux desktop i havent felt since 1999!
[+] mackrevinack|6 years ago|reply
I just switched to pop from Windows 2 weeks ago. i had been trying out various distros on another laptop over the last few years but I would only mess around for a few days and then go back to windows. switching over completely has worked out a lot better because it is forcing me to learn a lot faster.

having Windows running in a vm is a lot better for my mental health as well. I don't have to worry about it taking control over my computer at random hours to do some updates

[+] darren0|6 years ago|reply
I have almost a violent reaction to gnome application UX. I find it terrible. It is so hard to figure out how to do anything.
[+] Barrin92|6 years ago|reply
I felt the same way but I love it these days, I just used it wrong for a long time. It's very opinionated and you kind of have to adjust to the workflow. It makes more sense to treat it more like a tiling window manager than a traditional UI and use the keyboard extensively.

I've reconfigured switching between workspaces to simpler hotkeys and together with the overview you can keep a lot of stuff open and navigate without things feeling cluttered.

[+] c3534l|6 years ago|reply
I tried it last release. I don't see how it's any different than Ubuntu other than the company also makes laptops. I must be missing something.
[+] mackrevinack|6 years ago|reply
I havnt used ubuntu in years so I'm not sure how they compare, but i think pop has different keyboard shortcuts, has nvidia drivers included, it uses a different app store gui, has a better/easier install walk-through with an option for full disk encryption.

its basically just a lot if small things that make it easier to use right out of the box. that's what it seems like to me anyway

[+] tormeh|6 years ago|reply
Recently tried installing Ubuntu 19.04. The ISO thumb drive didn't work. Don't remember the details, but I tried nomodeset and some other usual(!) tricks. After 30 minutes I decided to just give Pop a whirl even though it's not as popular as Ubuntu. Worked with no fuss. That's the best argument I can think of. It's Pop OS for me from here on.
[+] 0xdeadb00f|6 years ago|reply
What is it with Desktop oriented Linux and the disgusting default brown/grey UI? Dear Ubuntu, you're not doing anyone a favour by having such a gross color as the default. I can guarantee a lot of Mac + Windows users looking to switch see that gross color and discard Linux as a whole because of it. Remember, when regular users ask what Linux to pick, or google it, the first one to show up is usually Ubuntu. (These aren't technical people I'm talking about, they probably don't know or don't care that you can change the colors).

How about a clean white, like OSX? or sleek, neat Black?

[+] pcr0|6 years ago|reply
Kubuntu (KDE) has their blue/silver theme and Mint is a distinctive green. Ubuntu looks pretty drab in comparison.
[+] mackrevinack|6 years ago|reply
zorin has a whiter than white ui and its the distro i always recommend zorin for windows users instead of ubuntu because it's laid out similar to windows.

the first time I tried out ubuntu i kept clicking the right side of the window for the X and minimise buttons and lasted maybe half and hour then switched to mint

[+] mmcnl|6 years ago|reply
I get that Pop!_OS is nice, but Ubuntu 19.10 is super polished out of the box as well. Even though System76 is arguing it is much more than just a reskinned Ubuntu, my final verdict is that it is just a reskinned Ubuntu.
[+] playpause|6 years ago|reply
Styling it “Pop!_OS” seems like a bad idea if they want wide adoption. Should I type it like that every time? Or maybe omit the explanation mark, as in the HN submission title? Or just type it the same way as I am (presumably) supposed to pronounce it, “Pop OS”?

I bet all three variants will be used regularly (and probably other, erroneous ones like “Pop_OS!” and “Pop_!OS”). What is the point in making a name ambiguous and difficult to get right? Why not just call it Pop OS?

[+] ydau|6 years ago|reply
Lambda Stack is an alternative to Pop!_OS's tensorman, which doesn't use containers:

https://lambdalabs.com/lambda-stack-deep-learning-software

This is a one-line apt/aptitude installation for TensorFlow, PyTorch, CUDA, cuDNN, etc. When NVIDIA releases a new version of CUDA, you can simply apt-get upgrade to the latest version.

Disclosure: I work for Lambda Labs.