both of those work roughly in the same way. Infact they cause much higher levels, so the effects may be more pronounced.
For my wife, it causes a perma-period, which is a great contraceptive, but not in the way it was planned.
In terms of mental side effects: loss of humour. She wouldn't watch comedy, as its not funny. I knew when it was wearing off because she'd start making jokes again.
> is a great contraceptive, but not in the way it was planned.
Agreed. My repeated experience has been that something about going on the pill almost completely extinguishes any interest in sex, so that whatever prophylactic effects it has are nearly academic...
“ There are over 100 different formulations of pill along with multiple other hormonal birth control options. Should we treat them the same?
The signalling is going to be different. Progestins divide into four different generations each with a somewhat different molecular structure. Each pill can also have a different ratio of progestin to artificial oestrogen. Right now, the research that exists rarely divides women based on the type of progestin they are on, let alone the ratios. We need to push science to start looking at this”
It's a one-application, reversible male contraceptive. "Application" is surgical, but not an involved one.
If it ever makes it to the market, it seems like a much simpler, safer intervention, conceptually. Disclaimer: non-medical programmer, so I have no genuinely useful insights into this subject. Just a layperson making guesses.
I've followed their (almost nonexistent) progress for a decade now, and even donated money.
The problem is that there's simply no interest in the national seats of power for male contraceptives. Even female contraceptive technology moves at a glacial pace. The copper chain has been standard in Europe for over a decade now, but all you can get in the Americas is the much more dangerous copper coil (which can puncture the uterus). In fact, I doubt you've ever even heard of the copper chain. Even typing [copper chain contraceptive] into google brings up the familiar T-shaped copper coil device, not the free-hanging copper sleeved chain. You have to type ["copper chain" contraceptive], including the quotes, which then takes you to some German and Austrian sites. And BTW you can get the procedure done as a tourist for 300 euros.
Safe contraception is not a difficult problem to solve (for men and women), but any politician pushing it would kill their career.
I think they should take the Tesla (motors) approach and enter the market at a high price first and then slowly bring the price down over time to their intended goal levels. Sort of like how the first HIV prevention drug (PREP) is entering the market.
I’ve donated a small amount to Parsemus and I would easily pay $5k for their $20 procedure but for whatever reason they haven’t made it to the market.
Immersing the testicles in 116 F water for 45 minutes a day for three weeks is significantly cheaper, and gives an undetectable sperm count for 6 months. It's honestly likely the best avenue for male birth control, the only problem is that it's impossible for a corporation to monetize so it's unlikely to get any sort of traction.
The technique has been effective in India, AIUI. It appears to actually work.
Our current regulatory apparatus is way too risk averse: look up horror stories surrounding IRB approval in biomedical research. (You need oversight for having people fill out a survey!)
I understand the urge to protect people from various specific harms, but slow scientific progress is a harm all its own.
Almost every woman I have ever dated has told me that they hate the pill and believe it seriously fucks with their head. I've never encouraged anyone to use that method, and I wish we had better male options.
Same here. And every women I know who stopped taking the pill would rave on how good it made them feel in general, and specific things like an increased sex drive. I was there when my current GF stopped taking the pill and can attest to that: an improvement on many fronts and seemingly no disadvantages. But yeah, billion dollar industry, people are used to it, convenient, ... so I don't see this getting better soon.
I had a girlfriend get pretty severely depressed upon starting birth control (and it cleared up shortly after going off) and traveled with a girl in Bolivia who had to give herself shots a few times a day because she had gotten deep vein thrombosis on her flight, susceptibility to which is apparently a side effect of her birth control. It really is insane how much it affects the user's health.
Every similar male options has, sadly, been far, far worse. I'd love a pill to render me temporarily sterile. Sadly the required chemistry seems to be... suicidal for men.
Why doesn't Paragard (non-hormonal copper IUD) not come up in these threads? It doesn't have any hormones, and is usually a better experience - and is far more effective. For some reason, at least in the US however it seems like almost no one has heard of it?
Pushing the pill with all it's side-effects and low efficacy frankly seems borderline malpractice?
I noticed that my girlfriend and I stopped having arguments after she got off the pill. That was over a year ago. She’s much more relaxed. I also got the snip.
In my experience, doctors, also GPs, are aware of effects on mood. In fact, my SO didn't start taking the pill until it was recommended for precisely those reasons during the (peri)menopause. There is a great deal of uncertainty about which pill will work, if any, but that's hardly surprising, as we have so little knowledge about the brain.
My ex I lived with for a decade would go on and off the pill mostly to deal with her adult acne in the first few years we were together, in our mid 20s.
Every time she got back on it we'd have insane arguments and go through crazy volatile periods where the relationship was crumbling. She'd get off it, and everything would magically stabilize again.
Her eventual decision to stay permanently off it was one of the best things that ever happened to our relationship.
As a transgender woman, I can assure you that hormone levels (estradiol in particular) do affect mood. If I forget to take my medication I will get a migraine, for instance, and this is a pattern also observed in cisgender women.
But what levels are ideal, what is good and bad, etc, is not the least bit clear cut for anybody.
Same here. Loss of estradiol makes me feel like I'm falling off a cliff. There was a shortage of estradiol here in the UK lately (due to Brexit mostly) and I ran out for a few days and went into a panic. The last time I ran out previously was a bad time for me, but who can accurately say that the lack of estradiol was entirely to blame?
I'm an artist well as techie, and my artwork has completely changed since starting estradiol 4 years ago. I used to draw only in pen and ink, always architectural scenes, black and white, lots of straight lines. Now that doesn't interest me in the least, and its all watercolours, and curves, and trees, and people. I am fascinated by people.
I also really enjoy talking now, about anything to anyone. I never ever used to do this before.
I think it indicates a problem between the system of science and the observation of the human mind that it has taken us this long to take the psychological symptoms seriously. People need to realize that science is not equipped to discern much of the truth about psychology at this time, we simply do not have enough accurate data collection methods yet.
> The best defence against the sexist notion that women’s hormones make them less rational than men seemed to be to deny hormonal involvement in the brain.
Getting funding for something that has very unfashionable implications is hard. Arguing against the pill (which is what pointing out issues with it can be seen as) can be taken as arguing against women's lib unless you have something nicely objective (like blood clots) to point at.
My wife used oral contraception prior to us deciding to have children because it helped her manage period pain symptoms.
Now after children has had a semi perm (merina) contraceptive installed to manage the damage done by having children.
Without it she would "bleed" almost all month long.
Its way past the time that the conservative sticky beaks made their uninformed the only message that law makers hear. Contraceptives are NOT just for stopping/managing baby production, they're also about saving lives and improving quality of life.
Oral contraceptives were illegal in Ireland at one point, but you could get a prescription for other medical uses such as treatment for irregular menstruation. Allegedly, at that time, Ireland had Europe’s highest rate of irregular periods.
Exactly this. My girlfriend had severe pain when ovulating and also had strong menstrual periods so basically the only tolerable days for her were the 2 weeks in between. She went through several different pills (as prescribed by her gynaecologist). One gave her severe headaches like every other day, another made her absolutely crazy - fights, crying, always moody, she really was NOT the person i knew and loved. Then finally one worked okay, she only had mild periods and just had them every 3 months or so.
After our first baby her cycles and pains got a lot better, having a baby kind of resets the body so right now she's off the pill and for the past year we're doing fine with the pull-out method (but if she got pregnant we wouldn't mind so it's no problem).
I've had this discussion with at least a few of the women I've shared some intimacy with. At least one was hesitant to take chemical birth-control over physical prophylaxis due to how it made her feel and act.
its worth noting that its not just one pill. there are several different chemical variations to "the pill" some work better or differently than others, it may take some trial and error before one that does the job and doesn't have negative side effect is found for that person.
I had no idea before I took the pill that depression was even a side-effect but within a few weeks after taking it the effect was obvious. I already had depression but it was clearly much worse on the pill and then I found it was indeed an effect of the pill. I don't know how so many women take the pill when the side-effects are so awful.
When my partner was on pills, she had way more mood swings than after she stopped taking them. I would say our life changed quite drastically to better after she stopped taking birth control pills.
That's interesting. My ex mentioned she felt a lot better very quickly after getting off the pill. There were a lot of confounding factors and as with most medical things different people's responses differ, but it's still interesting to read this support of that observation.
Of course pills screw up women's brains. But, it's a small price to pay; nearly all other methods make sex slightly less enjoyable for men. A satisfying orgasm without the concern of paying child support is definitely worth women doubling their suicide rate (per the article) and suffering mood disorders.
I jest. Sort of.
The solution, of course, is simple: find a woman, get married, and have kids. It's fairly trivial -- in the vast majority of cases -- to plan pregnancies using the rhythm method. It's not rocket science. A couple who lives together and is the least bit attuned to their mate's bodies and mood can tell when the woman is fertile. Doesn't work for casual sex with semi-strangers though.
Condoms are less effective compared to the pill even when they are used perfectly. As a birth control method, they are outclassed by pretty much every option at women's disposal. The reason they are important is they also help prevent sexually transmitted diseases.
Or you know IUDs. Not everyone needs to be stuck in the « make 6x as many children because we don’t have birth control » mindset. All the « calendar-based » «birth control » have terrible success rate.
One of the best contraception methods of have ever heard of is Vas-occlusive contraception
Where a tiny blob of something is inserted and hardens inside the vas deferens, permanently blocking the sperms exit.
Years later when you want children a tiny incision is made in the vas and the blockage is popped out.
no messing with anybodys hormones.
Vas-occlusive contraception methods are expected to have similar side effects to vasectomy, such as formation of sperm antibodies, though with lower rates.
But... i have never seen it offered in the Western World as an option.
It may well be a demand-side issue. I'm not sure how many guys want to get surgery, however minor, to do that (especially given the sensitivity of the region.) Even if it's safe, there's a somewhat visceral impulse to shrink away at the thought of getting cut open down there. The rate of vasectomies is half that of Canada or England, so it seems a lot of Americans agree and don't want that. I certainly wouldn't.
[+] [-] KaiserPro|6 years ago|reply
There is the injection, [https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/contraceptive-in...] and the implant [https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/contraceptive-im...]
both of those work roughly in the same way. Infact they cause much higher levels, so the effects may be more pronounced.
For my wife, it causes a perma-period, which is a great contraceptive, but not in the way it was planned.
In terms of mental side effects: loss of humour. She wouldn't watch comedy, as its not funny. I knew when it was wearing off because she'd start making jokes again.
[+] [-] thrower123|6 years ago|reply
Agreed. My repeated experience has been that something about going on the pill almost completely extinguishes any interest in sex, so that whatever prophylactic effects it has are nearly academic...
[+] [-] dwighttk|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NateEag|6 years ago|reply
https://www.parsemus.org/projects/vasalgel/
It's a one-application, reversible male contraceptive. "Application" is surgical, but not an involved one.
If it ever makes it to the market, it seems like a much simpler, safer intervention, conceptually. Disclaimer: non-medical programmer, so I have no genuinely useful insights into this subject. Just a layperson making guesses.
[+] [-] kstenerud|6 years ago|reply
The problem is that there's simply no interest in the national seats of power for male contraceptives. Even female contraceptive technology moves at a glacial pace. The copper chain has been standard in Europe for over a decade now, but all you can get in the Americas is the much more dangerous copper coil (which can puncture the uterus). In fact, I doubt you've ever even heard of the copper chain. Even typing [copper chain contraceptive] into google brings up the familiar T-shaped copper coil device, not the free-hanging copper sleeved chain. You have to type ["copper chain" contraceptive], including the quotes, which then takes you to some German and Austrian sites. And BTW you can get the procedure done as a tourist for 300 euros.
Safe contraception is not a difficult problem to solve (for men and women), but any politician pushing it would kill their career.
[+] [-] webninja|6 years ago|reply
I’ve donated a small amount to Parsemus and I would easily pay $5k for their $20 procedure but for whatever reason they haven’t made it to the market.
[+] [-] ThrustVectoring|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quotemstr|6 years ago|reply
Our current regulatory apparatus is way too risk averse: look up horror stories surrounding IRB approval in biomedical research. (You need oversight for having people fill out a survey!)
I understand the urge to protect people from various specific harms, but slow scientific progress is a harm all its own.
[+] [-] dominotw|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neom|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stinos|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wutbrodo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rannath|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lazide|6 years ago|reply
Pushing the pill with all it's side-effects and low efficacy frankly seems borderline malpractice?
[+] [-] adsfafsd|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deboflo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tgv|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] newnewpdro|6 years ago|reply
Every time she got back on it we'd have insane arguments and go through crazy volatile periods where the relationship was crumbling. She'd get off it, and everything would magically stabilize again.
Her eventual decision to stay permanently off it was one of the best things that ever happened to our relationship.
[+] [-] JimboOmega|6 years ago|reply
But what levels are ideal, what is good and bad, etc, is not the least bit clear cut for anybody.
[+] [-] grumblepeet|6 years ago|reply
I'm an artist well as techie, and my artwork has completely changed since starting estradiol 4 years ago. I used to draw only in pen and ink, always architectural scenes, black and white, lots of straight lines. Now that doesn't interest me in the least, and its all watercolours, and curves, and trees, and people. I am fascinated by people.
I also really enjoy talking now, about anything to anyone. I never ever used to do this before.
[+] [-] kofi_afrika|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cat199|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] doot42|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] concordDance|6 years ago|reply
> The best defence against the sexist notion that women’s hormones make them less rational than men seemed to be to deny hormonal involvement in the brain.
Getting funding for something that has very unfashionable implications is hard. Arguing against the pill (which is what pointing out issues with it can be seen as) can be taken as arguing against women's lib unless you have something nicely objective (like blood clots) to point at.
[+] [-] senectus1|6 years ago|reply
Now after children has had a semi perm (merina) contraceptive installed to manage the damage done by having children. Without it she would "bleed" almost all month long.
Its way past the time that the conservative sticky beaks made their uninformed the only message that law makers hear. Contraceptives are NOT just for stopping/managing baby production, they're also about saving lives and improving quality of life.
[+] [-] coredog64|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] easymodex|6 years ago|reply
After our first baby her cycles and pains got a lot better, having a baby kind of resets the body so right now she's off the pill and for the past year we're doing fine with the pull-out method (but if she got pregnant we wouldn't mind so it's no problem).
[+] [-] wavefunction|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] senectus1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spinach|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] repomies691|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] indigochill|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lurquer|6 years ago|reply
I jest. Sort of. The solution, of course, is simple: find a woman, get married, and have kids. It's fairly trivial -- in the vast majority of cases -- to plan pregnancies using the rhythm method. It's not rocket science. A couple who lives together and is the least bit attuned to their mate's bodies and mood can tell when the woman is fertile. Doesn't work for casual sex with semi-strangers though.
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thatfrenchguy|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] basicplus2|6 years ago|reply
Where a tiny blob of something is inserted and hardens inside the vas deferens, permanently blocking the sperms exit.
Years later when you want children a tiny incision is made in the vas and the blockage is popped out.
no messing with anybodys hormones.
Vas-occlusive contraception methods are expected to have similar side effects to vasectomy, such as formation of sperm antibodies, though with lower rates.
But... i have never seen it offered in the Western World as an option.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vas-occlusive_contraception
[+] [-] big_chungus|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomhoward|6 years ago|reply
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5658328/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5592309/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23528282
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29145752
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002839080...
[+] [-] aaron695|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] 419eetir|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] 419eetir|6 years ago|reply
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