At some point cryptocurrencies felt like they could get us most of the way to working micropayments. Unfortunately Bitcoin's huge transaction fees and still unreliable service made that impossible. I still hope this will change at some point, but I can't imagine how a sufficiently dominant cryptocurrency could ever emerge again.
Transaction fees are there, but don't have to be enormous. Our code can also optimistically unlock the page under the assumption that pending transactions will eventually go through, so block time is also less of a concern.
Right now the tricky thing is that it requires a browser extension if you want to transact directly with crypto (or use one of the few browsers that come with a built-in web3 wallet).
We also have a managed crypto wallet service that allows people to pay with credit cards, but it isn't widespread because it can only be used to buy keys for locks we have approved.
> Unfortunately Bitcoin's huge transaction fees and still unreliable service made that impossible
The cost of crypto transactions has always been known, it just used to be paid for by the userbase as a whole when the block reward was more substantial, whereas right now the user pays for their own transactions.
I actually think the Lightning network is a semi-viable solution, it essentially overlays a "credits" system onto the original network that's especially appropriate for micro-transactions.
I can't see how a system in which every node has a copy of every transaction forever could ever be suitable for micropayments, which if they took off would be of the order of millions a day.
The second-largest cryptocurrency is about a year away from a sharding system that multiplies scale by a factor of 512, with room to grow as hardware improves.
That's for purely on-chain transactions. There's also a partly-offchain solution called "zkrollups" that uses zero-knowledge proofs to reduce the storage for a simple value transfer to 11 bytes, without introducing any unpleasant security assumptions like requiring the user to be online to receive payment or prevent cheating. Combining that with sharding gets to about a quarter million tx/sec.
If that's not sufficient for micropayments, it's fairly straightforward to extend zkrollups to make payments probabilistic: e.g. to pay one penny, send a 1% chance of paying a dollar. There are some potential doublespending issues here but for voluntary tips that's not a problem.
Bitcoin is your cash reserve, its like tour bank account and you dont go to the bank every day. There are multiple solutions to the speed issues. The real issue is that crypto is incompatible with any taxation system everywhere
Can someone explain why micro-payments are good? I get a potential benefit to companies (it typically also means easier payments), but I don't see the benefit to consumers. My perception has been that there is a push towards smaller payments at a higher frequency, such that consumers pay more over all but don't notice it; a sort of financial "death by a thousand cuts". Is there any actual consumer benefit to these? I can think of no personal case where I even _want_ to make small payments.
What's the barrier to using Stripe to top-up credit (say USD 20 buys 1 million virtual credits) then spending those on the web buying tiny things for tiny amounts?
In a sense, WeChat Pay etc in China have already "overcome barriers" to micropayments, even tho the amounts do not need to be micro.
That means the company holding that credit becomes subject to financial regulation, which is complex and expensive. Plus merchants now have to integrate with yet another middleman.
The simpler solution is: no fees for small debit transactions, once the baking system is modernized the cost of a transaction is in fact close to zero. This is already the case in Western Europe.
The term to look up is money service business. It wouldn't be so bad except there are federal regulations as well as state regulations. For an internet enabled system, that means registering in 50 states. An estimate I saw put getting licenses for all states in the 200k range.
This difficulty compounds because banks went through a big derisking and are more or less allergic to MSBs. It seems a little anti competitive to have the banks deny you access to payment processing. The alternative is they will charge very high account maintenance fees (10k per month has been quoted to me).
I really want to build something like this but it will be a legal nightmare. No wonder people are looking to cryptocurrencies to solve these issues. I'm actually a little excited about libra since they will have the resources to overcome these hurdles.
The New York Times is definitely ad-supported. You can't read the articles unless you pay, but there are still ads after you pay. It is amazing how they can double-dip.
I used to kinda believe in the argument that it's too much trouble for users, but now a single-click micropayment seems way easier than all the crap I do to bypass soft paywalls.
(I'm not averse to paying and have a digital subscription to one national newspaper, but paying for thirty newspapers just so I can click on reddit links without hassle seems unreasonable.)
I may have a hundred million pageview credits, but it's still a gnawing "This will cost me one." It's still going to end with "we're outside the big network and want a seperate fee."
The simplest answer is to pull the consumer from the purchasing loop. Create a state endowment to pay artists and journalists a living wage, public-domain all the things, and then we can browse in peace, knowing our taxes paid for it.
In my opinion, micropayment is more or less a solved problem these days, at least on mobile.
I'm an old fart, I never understand why free games can make a lot of money from selling "powerups" and even vanity stuff like "skins", but as we all know, it's big money.
I even don't understand people buying scratch cards/vouchers from convenience stores with marked-up price.
TL;DR: Lots of free apps/games, yet people pay, sometimes at premium/need to literally walk to a shop.
And, not only Google Play or Apple AppStore, WeChat and other super-apps are also enabling micro payments.
Some issues are still valid though, such as monopoly by the middlemen.
>I'm an old fart, I never understand why free games can make a lot of money from selling "powerups" and even vanity stuff like "skins", but as we all know, it's big money.
I was like yourself with this belief until i tried out mobile legends at a friend's request. I'd always read how bad those games were for that but I didn't really get why until I seen it myself. The game is so full of dark patterns and Skinner boxes to get you spending I don't even know where to begin. It's my first f2p game with things like that, it boggles my mind how much crap is being constantly thrown at me to get me to spend money on random skins, powerups, and heroes. Even when you're not playing, the game entices you to log in to give you a free chest every few hours with a push notification. It reminds me of the way a drug dealer gets customers hooked. They give you little bits of free shit when you first start then cut you off hard after a week.
[+] [-] emrehan|6 years ago|reply
I find the design of the page quite beautiful.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] panic|6 years ago|reply
http://www.scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/icst/icst-5/icst-5.h...
http://www.scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/icst/icst-6/icst-6.h...
[+] [-] tom_mellior|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cnasc|6 years ago|reply
Transaction fees are there, but don't have to be enormous. Our code can also optimistically unlock the page under the assumption that pending transactions will eventually go through, so block time is also less of a concern.
Right now the tricky thing is that it requires a browser extension if you want to transact directly with crypto (or use one of the few browsers that come with a built-in web3 wallet).
We also have a managed crypto wallet service that allows people to pay with credit cards, but it isn't widespread because it can only be used to buy keys for locks we have approved.
[+] [-] zozbot234|6 years ago|reply
The cost of crypto transactions has always been known, it just used to be paid for by the userbase as a whole when the block reward was more substantial, whereas right now the user pays for their own transactions.
I actually think the Lightning network is a semi-viable solution, it essentially overlays a "credits" system onto the original network that's especially appropriate for micro-transactions.
[+] [-] pjc50|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DennisP|6 years ago|reply
That's for purely on-chain transactions. There's also a partly-offchain solution called "zkrollups" that uses zero-knowledge proofs to reduce the storage for a simple value transfer to 11 bytes, without introducing any unpleasant security assumptions like requiring the user to be online to receive payment or prevent cheating. Combining that with sharding gets to about a quarter million tx/sec.
If that's not sufficient for micropayments, it's fairly straightforward to extend zkrollups to make payments probabilistic: e.g. to pay one penny, send a 1% chance of paying a dollar. There are some potential doublespending issues here but for voluntary tips that's not a problem.
[+] [-] cft|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] teh_infallible|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] buboard|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] big_chungus|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TACIXAT|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slowenough|6 years ago|reply
In a sense, WeChat Pay etc in China have already "overcome barriers" to micropayments, even tho the amounts do not need to be micro.
[+] [-] jiofih|6 years ago|reply
The simpler solution is: no fees for small debit transactions, once the baking system is modernized the cost of a transaction is in fact close to zero. This is already the case in Western Europe.
[+] [-] TACIXAT|6 years ago|reply
This difficulty compounds because banks went through a big derisking and are more or less allergic to MSBs. It seems a little anti competitive to have the banks deny you access to payment processing. The alternative is they will charge very high account maintenance fees (10k per month has been quoted to me).
I really want to build something like this but it will be a legal nightmare. No wonder people are looking to cryptocurrencies to solve these issues. I'm actually a little excited about libra since they will have the resources to overcome these hurdles.
[+] [-] jdurden|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] petjuh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrockway|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DennisP|6 years ago|reply
(I'm not averse to paying and have a digital subscription to one national newspaper, but paying for thirty newspapers just so I can click on reddit links without hassle seems unreasonable.)
[+] [-] hakfoo|6 years ago|reply
I may have a hundred million pageview credits, but it's still a gnawing "This will cost me one." It's still going to end with "we're outside the big network and want a seperate fee."
The simplest answer is to pull the consumer from the purchasing loop. Create a state endowment to pay artists and journalists a living wage, public-domain all the things, and then we can browse in peace, knowing our taxes paid for it.
[+] [-] wiradikusuma|6 years ago|reply
I'm an old fart, I never understand why free games can make a lot of money from selling "powerups" and even vanity stuff like "skins", but as we all know, it's big money.
I even don't understand people buying scratch cards/vouchers from convenience stores with marked-up price.
TL;DR: Lots of free apps/games, yet people pay, sometimes at premium/need to literally walk to a shop.
And, not only Google Play or Apple AppStore, WeChat and other super-apps are also enabling micro payments.
Some issues are still valid though, such as monopoly by the middlemen.
[+] [-] grawprog|6 years ago|reply
I was like yourself with this belief until i tried out mobile legends at a friend's request. I'd always read how bad those games were for that but I didn't really get why until I seen it myself. The game is so full of dark patterns and Skinner boxes to get you spending I don't even know where to begin. It's my first f2p game with things like that, it boggles my mind how much crap is being constantly thrown at me to get me to spend money on random skins, powerups, and heroes. Even when you're not playing, the game entices you to log in to give you a free chest every few hours with a push notification. It reminds me of the way a drug dealer gets customers hooked. They give you little bits of free shit when you first start then cut you off hard after a week.
[+] [-] TACIXAT|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chabes|6 years ago|reply
Yeah, maybe for folks in Silicon Valley who have bank accounts.
What about the other few billion people?
[+] [-] buboard|6 years ago|reply