[crikli]

I’m a climber / skier / runner etc based out of Colorado and between my wife and we’ve spent a small fortune with backcountry.com. I didn’t know about any of this. Suing a maker of backcountry skis? Well, fuck you too, private equity jerkoffs. I’m going to light up my rep on this and let them know my spend and my recommendations are going elsewhere.

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Edit3: GoFundMe for the legal costs of one of their targets: https://www.gofundme.com/f/legal-defense-to-fight-backcountr...

Edit2: A follow-up article with more details on just how predatory and unreasonable BC (by proxy through their attorneys) have become: https://coloradosun.com/2019/11/05/backcountry-com-trademark...

Edit, @skierjerry, et, al, here's what I just sent my rep:

Heya <person>,

I read an article about Backcountry in the Colorado Sun that really disappointed me. Your employer has adopted ugly business tactics and begun using its size to attack smaller businesses who have the ubiquitous term “backcountry” in their name.

Please look at my lifetime spend with Backcountry as well as that of my wife. It is significant. It also stops now, and I’ll be making significant contributions to the legal funds of the boutique makes and businesses that your employer is assaulting.

I wish you nothing but the best on a personal level and hope that your employer chooses to take a better path."

[jngreenlee]

Worth a mention...Colorado Sun is a great example of what local journalists can do after local legacy organizations are snapped up by national/global organizations.

After the Denver Post was acquired by Alden Global Capital, the paper's hedge fund owner,they laid of 1/3 of newsroom staff to maintain a profit margin on the property in the 20 percent range.

Several of those laid off (and some volunteered to migrate), they formed the Colorado Sun, which is online-only and does actual deep investigations locally. It's probably still hard and the money isn't easy, but its better than what we had!

[elandrum]

I was quite surprised to see a Sun article on HN today. Been a member as soon as I moved to Denver last year and have loved seeing it be such a high quality source of journalism.

[a5seo]

The Denver Post situation has been a great example of finance eating the world.

The Editor is the Boulder Daily Camera fell on his sword quite spectacularly over it...

https://boulderfreepress.blog/2018/04/14/private-equity-owne...

[tnorthcutt]

I'm new (18 months) to Colorado, and I've really been enjoying the coverage the Sun provides. Very impressed.

[jahlove]

Yup, I love Colorado Sun. They are really deserving of your eyeballs and your support.

[dgzl]

I chatted with a rep last night and they were very responsive, said "our managers are listening to customer feedback."

Don't forget, Black Diamond laid off much of the Utah engineering staff and their climbing cams will now be made in China... Not sure what other gear is taking that fate. Looks like it's Metolious Master Cams for me now.

[ISL]

Did BD re-offshore things? At one point, they were bringing manufacturing back to the US after QC issues.

Answering my own question: looks like it. They brought it back in 2015 and are going back overseas in 2019.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2400138/black-diamond-layoffs-...

https://companyweek.com/articles/as-black-diamond-bolts-to-c...

[wsinks]

I recently bought a set of collapsable climbing poles from Black Diamond.

They broke on my first really long hike. 1/3 of the way into a 72 mile route..

[duskwuff]

> their climbing cams will now be made in China

I'm not sure if I see what's wrong with that. Like it or not, electronics manufacturing is centered around China and the APAC region. Trying to set up manufacturing outside that region, especially for a company that doesn't specialize in electronic goods, simply doesn't make sense.

[jdorw]

I'm doing they same. I've spent a stupid amount on bikes and climbing gear from them so hopefully they listen.

[crikli]

Brother I'm livid. I understand that a company has to protect a trademark, and I've been in the protecting position. But there are actions you have to take and actions you do not, and BC seems to be taking it to the extreme.

The thing that really pisses me off is that they are attacking people in business because they love the sport. These boutique makers are often just scraping by and don't have the margins to sustain much resistance at all.

[ummonk]

Yup, I'm switching exclusively to Moosejaw until Backcountry is a little more reasonable here. Obviously they have to enforce their trademark to avoid losing it, but some of these lawsuits are egregious imo.

[notmoosejaw]

FYI - Moosejaw is now owned by Walmart, so if you're trying to ethically "vote with your dollars" it might not be the best choice.

I buy essentially all my gear from the REI co-op, who seem to have both customer-friendly return policies as well as genuine commitments to environmental standards for the gear they stock.

[mintplant]

> Obviously they have to enforce their trademark to avoid losing it

This is a commonly repeated myth. The circumstances in which you could even possibly lose control of a trademark in this way (genericization, abandonment) are very narrow and difficult to apply. For more context, try https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not...

[Gene_Parmesan]

As a lawyer I am verifying what another comment said, that this is a commonly-held myth wrt American trademark law.

[takk309]

Why not look for a local option for your gear? I understand that some equipment may not be available locally but surely you can find most of what you need. If their prices aren't competitive with online retailers, look at what else you get beyond the equipment such as customer service, repairs, etc.

[lamp_book]

Evo is pretty good as well.

[david38]

Yes, because Walmart is the shining example of a benevolent company.

[pmarreck]

If a company does not make a consistent best-faith effort to defend its trademark(s), the claim on those trademark(s) get severely weakened. Companies are thus legally incentivized to defend their trademark (at least in the U.S.). This is a rational decision that has nothing to do with being an asshole (or not). If a company does not have a consistent track record of defending its trademark(s), then their claim gets severely weakened from a legal standpoint. Period, end of story.

And yet, every month there is a story like this in the news of "big company with generic name sues small company with same name" because nobody likes a bully. The problem is, if they DO NOT attack, the trademark claim will become severely diluted and then THEY will become vulnerable to a trademark dispute from someone else down the line, and the other party will point to their lack of historical defense and make an argument that the claim on the trademark is weak.

[class4behavior]

You're only incentivized not to unreasonably postpone a legal claim. Here, the company seems to exaggerate what a reasonable claim is in the first place.

[tnorthcutt]

Thanks for sharing this. I just sent a modified version of your letter to my rep as well.

[mbostleman]

Same boat here but Eastern Idaho. I’ve been fuming since I saw the article on Saturday. Really happy to see it getting exposure here.

[tus88]

> I wish you nothing but the best on a personal level and hope that your employer chooses to take a better path."

Should be:

"I wish you nothing but the best on a personal level and hope that your employer swiftly goes out of business and leads to reform of trademark laws."

[cmrdporcupine]

thanks for posting the gofundme. Just donated, I hope others do to.

I had actually been following those Marquette Backcountry Skis thinking some day I might get some. This makes me want them more.

[hans_castorp]

Did she/he answer? If yes, what was it?

[crikli]

Contentless lawyered up canned response.

[skraelingjar]

I got this:

Thanks for your feedback!

Think what you may, but if there is ever a time to use the phrase that you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the internet its now. Its being handled correctly, and not displayed honestly.

We will be releasing a statement today or tomorrow regarding the issue. We haven’t said anything due to confidentiality agreements, that other parties violated but anyways. I respect your opinion and decision.

Let me know what I can help with gear-wise in the meantime,

[PatrolX]

Trademark holders are "required" to defend their registration, failure to do so will result in losing it.

[TallGuyShort]

They're not required to choose a word already ubiquitous in their industry and trademark it. They're taking "defense" to a ridiculous, douchy extreme.

Also the accuracy of your claim has already been debunked fairly well elsewhere in the thread.

[otakucode]

Correct. This article reads like someone who has no knowledge of, or familiarity with, trademark law. Trademarks have to be defended or they are lost, and additionally almost all trademarks are applied to a very broad list of things just as standard practice. Even if your company is only making T-shirts, for instance, it would be very common to also have your trademarks cover toys, dishes, tools, and all kinds of other products just in case you might want to plaster your trademark on those in the future.

That being said, the fundamental purpose of trademarks is to eliminate consumer confusion. In order to defend against a challenge, you would need to present to the court strong evidence that there is very little chance a consumer might be confused as to the maker or origin of the goods due to the name. For instance, if you made a line of frozen pizzas and called them 'backcountry style' pizzas, is there a chance that some consumers might think those pizzas were made by Backcountry.com? You've got to be able to show that this is not a likely scenario even if Backcountry.com starts manufacturing frozen foods (assuming the trademark covers frozen foods, I have no idea if it does, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did).

I developed a website for reserving parking near airports and seaports years ago and the site launched under the name BookParkFly.com. Shortly thereafter, the business (I was just a contracted web developer) received a letter from a lawyer representing the people who owned a sorta-similar trademark in the same space for a company called, if I remember correctly, Park 'N Fly. I personally thought we might have been able to win a challenge in court, but the company didn't want to fight it so changed the name and rebranded everything. (It's Book2Park now if you're curious, but I severed ties with them years ago. Before they were featured on Krebs after getting someone else to slap in an insecure Wordpress blog after I told them if Wordpress was going to be used it had to be watched closely for security concerns...)

Trademark challenges aren't "bullying" or "aggressive". They're basic law 101 and really shouldn't surprise anyone in business. That's why you pay an attorney to do a trademark search if you really want to use a certain name.

[EpicEng]

A... "rep"... is a company... "rep"resentative. I don't imagine the GP is saying he's going to call the rep nasty names, but it's good to let them know why he's taking his business elsewhere.

[crikli]

Of course not man, from my experience the rank and file at BC are fantastic people. They of course have nothing to do with this. But when I and others tell our gearheads "the faucet is getting turned off" it will (hopefully) develop momentum internally against what's happening.

Or not. There are lots of other players in this space.