You know between Java, Hudson and moves like this it feels like we're ripe for an Onion-style article about Oracle execs running out of ideas for pissing off the OSS community and so doing a road-trip around the country to individually insult every OSS developer and user in the most graphic and personal way they can think of.
Oracle has a profitable business model. It works for them. They have some open source projects that they no longer care to support. In the open source model, someone else is free to carry the torch. It should only require a few people to adopt the Ruby plugin. There are already lots of Netbeans plugins so the learning curve:
The OSS community for Hudson (actually, CloudBees) is forking Hudson against Oracle's will.
RoR support is just dropped due to various constraints and the community is actually encouraged to intervene:
>However, we strongly encourage our community of NetBeans Ruby users and developers to volunteer to take on development of Ruby on Rails support for the NetBeans IDE.
I'm curious if people will pick up RoR support or just continue complaining about Oracle because they don't make things for free.
I don't understand why this move should piss off anybody in the OSS community. Oracle is a private company and as such has only obligations to its shareholders. They may or may not support and/or promote OSS projects as they see fit, same as every one of us. It's their free choice.
> To maintain that objective and capitalize on the JDK 7 release themes [...] it is necessary that our engineering resources are committed to [...] NetBeans IDE 7.0.
(from http://netbeans.org/community/news/show/1507.html )
and
>However, we strongly encourage our community of NetBeans Ruby users and developers to volunteer to take on development of Ruby on Rails support for the NetBeans IDE.
(from http://wiki.netbeans.org/RubySupport )
So it's just a matter of not having enough resources to support everything.
Ruby and RoR is done basically entirely in-house by NetBeans/Oracle so it seems odd that people are enraged that something they provided for free isn't supported any longer due to normal restrictions.
I'm curious if:
1. People outside Oracle will take over RoR development (the community seems too small) OR
2. People will pledge money to keep the plugin maintained (I somehow doubt this but I would like to see it happen).
I think you're right. The intersection of interested Ruby developers + with Java experience + knowledge of the Netbeans platform + and motivation/time to maintain the plugin seems vanishingly small.
I have heard positive things said about RubyMine from JetBrains. However, it is not free and some complain of slow project parse times at startup. Disclaimer: I do have an off and on professional relationship with JetBrains.
RubyMine just tweeted: "We welcome all NetBeans users to start evaluating RubyMine as your new Ruby/Rails IDE! Expect some great news very soon on our pricing page!"
It is a good product and superior to NetBeans in many ways. The price was a little on the higher side though (but worth it anyways). If it comes down, I expect RubyMine to become the de-facto IDE for Ruby/Rails.
Yep, I think consolidation in the Ruby IDE space will be a good thing. All the super elite people are using VIM / Emacs, and all the lazy people like me are still using Textmate. If RubyMine can develop a decent size community around it (with plugins, snippets, colors, etc), I'd definitely use it.
They really have to speed it up though. Feels like slogging through mud when compared to TextMate. Not sure if its possible given their java codebase.
For open source projects it is "free" and $69 for a one developer license. That isn't too bad. I use PyCharm and it is pretty good and the Jetbrains team is always responsive to my questions.
I've only found NetBeans useful under Windows. I've had a number of interface problems on Linux and OSX that make it unusable. (Dialogs showing up blank all the time and other problems)
I've found netbeans to be faster on windows, certainly. Not had any of the issues you mention on OSX - just general 'java is slow' issues (especially when compared to same version of nb on windows).
On Linux, I got tired of Eclipse-based Java apps not working properly - blank windows, as you mentioned being a primary issue.
I have used NetBeans both on Windows as well as on Ubuntu. I haven't noticed slowness on Ubuntu (with 4GB RAM) apart from the loading time. I have switched to VIM since then and haven't used NetBeans in the recent months though.
Is anybody actually using NetBeans for Ruby? I tried it very early in my exploration of Ruby, but quickly switched to gedit, and eventually emacs (using technomancy's emacs starter kit). Now that I use emacs, any other editor (particularly one that requires a hand on the mouse) feels like an RSI producing nightmare.
Netbeans has some very nice autocomplete, drop-down help, and refactoring and debugging stuff for Ruby, but I could never use it for serous code editing. I liked it for the WYSIWYG GUI editor when building some Ruby GUI apps, but much prefer vim for general coding (vim plugins for Netbeans notwithstanding).
Honestly, I feel like the title here is a little misleading.
The message from the netbeans team is that they just didn't have enough resources to support both Rails and upcoming Java 7 and so they had to drop development. They also are encouraging the community to pick up and continue development of Rails support for the IDE.
I guess it's possible that a lack of resources is just an excuse to remove that support, but to me this seems like a genuine reason. I don't get the sense that Oracle just pulled the plug for political reasons.
I use Netbeans for java and used it when I started working with Ruby. But I switched to RubyMine and really enjoy it. It took me a while to convince myself to pay for an IDE after previously using Netbeans and Eclipse, but the cost isn't high and it has really made me speed up my ruby work.
This morning I went looking for a new IDE to replace Netbeans/Aptana and found VIM + Janus (https://github.com/carlhuda/janus). Janus is a collection of customizations and plugins that make VIM look & feel almost like a GUI IDE.
Absolutely agree. I also highly recommend FuzzyFinder if you like TextMate's "Go To File" (CTRL+SHIFT+R Eclipse, CTRL+SHIFT+O NetBeans), and also combined with the Project plugin.
The tutorial uses Project (I would say complementary more than an alternative to NERDTree). It depends on your needs, and I use both. NERDTree for general navigation, but the way Project buckets content results in some flexibility as well. Along with using netrw to do remote development via scp/rsync, you could also create a hybridized project of local and remote content and run a vimgrep on all files. There are at least a few applications for this with, maybe a quick way to manage config or view log files (if they're small enough) on multiple servers/shards for example.
Additionally you can also have it run scripts to switch dev environments when you switch projects. Project switches are triggered when you open a buffer for a file in a different project. If you are working on several platforms and have multiple build scripts, I find this to be helpful. One limitation though, if you have a split or tab with multiple buffers from different projects, the most recent opened project's environment persists.
So FF + Project's workflow is: (1) keys (,f for me) to "Go To File", (2) type in a search pattern, (3) open a file with your environment fully setup and ready to go. For me it has been pretty good so far over the past year or so with a few minor issues.
I use this combination as well with one addition - topfunky's peepopen (http://peepcode.com/products/peepopen). Works like an improved version of Textmate's fuzzy find - even displays Git metadata inline. Its not free - but its worth it imo to have something a little more polished.
Sort of sad to see this happen, but I'd prefer they keep netbeans going and streamline it to be really good at a few things, rather than being 'ok' at lots of stuff.
Ruby doesn't really fit with Oracle's offerings, although PHP doesn't either. Perhaps PHP support will be dropped in the future?
Netbeans is open source. The plugin is open source. Oracle is simply trying to cut projects where they have no direct or indirect benefit. I'm sure they would be happy if someone else maintained the plugin. Netbeans has a growing community of plugin developers. There is a community Clojure plugin, for example:
RadRails and Redmine are going to be the closest to the Netbeans Ruby support, others have mentioned those already. Something closer to the heart of many Ruby developers is Redcar. It's a text editor installed as a Ruby gem generally meant to replicate Textmate functionality.
I'm sure there's much more to it, but my initial reaction was to think it was oracle snubbing salesforce in their acquisition of heroku. In the enterprise (which sf targets) oracle is revered, and a robust oracle IDE does help give credibility to ruby/rails. Aptana and ruby mine are the only other ruby/rails IDE's that your run of the mill IT manager would consider full-featured im aware of, and neither of them are backed by a brand as respected in the enterprise as oracle.
This is an unfortunate move, though I expect that the community will do what it can to pick up the pieces here (which Oracle seems to state openly that they want to see happen). NetBeans has improved so much over the years, I hate to see "official" features like this get tossed out.
"Second: Although our Ruby support has historically been well received, based on existing low usage trends we are unable to justify the continued allocation of resources to support the feature."
That is really all they needed to point out (for me).
NetBeans is open source. At least OpenOffice and Hudson have already been forked. Are there any obstacles (name has to be changed of course) for forking this project as well?
[+] [-] msy|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|15 years ago|reply
http://plugins.netbeans.org/PluginPortal
Complaining about Oracle, or any profit driven company, won't help. Growing open source communities will:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/netbeans-plugins
[+] [-] fierarul|15 years ago|reply
RoR support is just dropped due to various constraints and the community is actually encouraged to intervene:
>However, we strongly encourage our community of NetBeans Ruby users and developers to volunteer to take on development of Ruby on Rails support for the NetBeans IDE.
I'm curious if people will pick up RoR support or just continue complaining about Oracle because they don't make things for free.
[+] [-] erik_p|15 years ago|reply
What? You pooped in Monty's refrigerator? And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing.
[+] [-] vtail|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lapusta|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erino|15 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wowbagger,_the_Infinitely_Prolo...
[+] [-] AhtiK|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fierarul|15 years ago|reply
> To maintain that objective and capitalize on the JDK 7 release themes [...] it is necessary that our engineering resources are committed to [...] NetBeans IDE 7.0. (from http://netbeans.org/community/news/show/1507.html )
and
>However, we strongly encourage our community of NetBeans Ruby users and developers to volunteer to take on development of Ruby on Rails support for the NetBeans IDE. (from http://wiki.netbeans.org/RubySupport )
So it's just a matter of not having enough resources to support everything.
Ruby and RoR is done basically entirely in-house by NetBeans/Oracle so it seems odd that people are enraged that something they provided for free isn't supported any longer due to normal restrictions.
I'm curious if:
1. People outside Oracle will take over RoR development (the community seems too small) OR
2. People will pledge money to keep the plugin maintained (I somehow doubt this but I would like to see it happen).
[+] [-] hopeless|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hopeless|15 years ago|reply
I've gradually moved away from NetBeans as a general Ruby/Rails editor but I often came back for the great debugging support.
Any suggestion for alternative Rails debuggers?
[+] [-] daveungerer|15 years ago|reply
Works really well once you've sorted a few quirks - it's what finally allowed me to fully switch from NetBeans to Vim about a month ago.
Hint: add the following to your .vimrc if using MacVim:
[+] [-] hamletdrc2|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikeryan|15 years ago|reply
But I always thought that RadRails was pretty good. YMMV
http://aptana.com/products/radrails
[+] [-] steveklabnik|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasim|15 years ago|reply
It is a good product and superior to NetBeans in many ways. The price was a little on the higher side though (but worth it anyways). If it comes down, I expect RubyMine to become the de-facto IDE for Ruby/Rails.
[+] [-] jpcx01|15 years ago|reply
They really have to speed it up though. Feels like slogging through mud when compared to TextMate. Not sure if its possible given their java codebase.
[+] [-] sigzero|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] epochwolf|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rufugee|15 years ago|reply
export AWT_Toolkit=MToolkit
[+] [-] mgkimsal|15 years ago|reply
On Linux, I got tired of Eclipse-based Java apps not working properly - blank windows, as you mentioned being a primary issue.
[+] [-] subbu|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grandalf|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesbritt|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Confusion|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] barmstrong|15 years ago|reply
IDE's still have a few killer features over text editors that I miss when I don't have them.
[+] [-] smitjel|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moron4hire|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] torme|15 years ago|reply
The message from the netbeans team is that they just didn't have enough resources to support both Rails and upcoming Java 7 and so they had to drop development. They also are encouraging the community to pick up and continue development of Rails support for the IDE.
I guess it's possible that a lack of resources is just an excuse to remove that support, but to me this seems like a genuine reason. I don't get the sense that Oracle just pulled the plug for political reasons.
[+] [-] whynotmatt|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] steipete|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Corrado|15 years ago|reply
Highly recommended!
[+] [-] charlief|15 years ago|reply
Here's a decent tutorial in setting it up:
http://colonelpanic.net/2010/05/textmate-go-to-file-in-vim/
The tutorial uses Project (I would say complementary more than an alternative to NERDTree). It depends on your needs, and I use both. NERDTree for general navigation, but the way Project buckets content results in some flexibility as well. Along with using netrw to do remote development via scp/rsync, you could also create a hybridized project of local and remote content and run a vimgrep on all files. There are at least a few applications for this with, maybe a quick way to manage config or view log files (if they're small enough) on multiple servers/shards for example.
Additionally you can also have it run scripts to switch dev environments when you switch projects. Project switches are triggered when you open a buffer for a file in a different project. If you are working on several platforms and have multiple build scripts, I find this to be helpful. One limitation though, if you have a split or tab with multiple buffers from different projects, the most recent opened project's environment persists.
So FF + Project's workflow is: (1) keys (,f for me) to "Go To File", (2) type in a search pattern, (3) open a file with your environment fully setup and ready to go. For me it has been pretty good so far over the past year or so with a few minor issues.
[+] [-] thecoffman|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mjuhl24|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mgkimsal|15 years ago|reply
Eclipse also has support for Ruby, no?
Sort of sad to see this happen, but I'd prefer they keep netbeans going and streamline it to be really good at a few things, rather than being 'ok' at lots of stuff.
Ruby doesn't really fit with Oracle's offerings, although PHP doesn't either. Perhaps PHP support will be dropped in the future?
[+] [-] melling|15 years ago|reply
http://www.enclojure.org
[+] [-] yock|15 years ago|reply
http://redcareditor.com/
[+] [-] killedbydeath|15 years ago|reply
I have been using Komodo for a number of languages on a number of platforms.
[+] [-] ericb|15 years ago|reply
A Ruby editor, written in Ruby, that you can extend using Ruby.
[+] [-] davidw|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] empire29|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] noarchy|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sigzero|15 years ago|reply
That is really all they needed to point out (for me).
[+] [-] jim_h|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TwoSheds|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runjake|15 years ago|reply
1.) To focus more on Java
2.) Because the low usage of the RoR NetBeans functionality didn't warrant the effort the team put into it.
[+] [-] sshconnection|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sigzero|15 years ago|reply