I was a musician before becoming a software developer. Max/MSP was my gateway into the general field of programming and I still rely on the intuition I built back then when forming mental models about problem solving. Object-orientation, functional concepts, declarative programming – it’s all in there in a very tangible way. It’s just a joy to work with!
So, seeing how Max just keeps maturing and becoming more and more accessible makes me very happy!
And having it integrate so well with Ableton and the outside world is really a major leap forward compared to back then (2004, pre-Ableton acqusition). We spent oceans of time getting sensors, midi and OSC working together reliably! Now it’s a non-issue.
That's an interesting perspective, I've found quite the opposite. I'm an experienced developer and I've dabbled with Max for Live but have not quite found it a joy to work with.
Having to do everything in a GUI is just really tough to do, so I give them props for how good it is, there's no other purely visual programming environment I've tried that is even this usable. I did find the discoverability surprisingly poor when starting out, but after a while I think I now understand the structure and what's possible. But my biggest complaint is it's just soooo slow to do basic things. You have to drag and drop every single little construct, instead of typing "if { } else { }" which takes maybe 5 seconds, you have to drag and arrange and connect like 6 different things which takes at least 20 seconds and a lot more focused dexterity. I also find the freeform spatial layout kind of stressful and dread changing anything, instead of going into a function and editing code or adding a couple of lines of new functionality, you have to drag everything everything else around the page to add space for the extra blocks you want to insert.
I don't want to undersell it, the libraries and building blocks you get in Max are amazing, and the ease of things like working with audio buffers make up for a lot of the painpoints. But I do wish there was a first-class way to connect things together with code instead of the current system, I think it would make iterating much faster and more enjoyable.
I barely knew about ableton before some recent HN front page articles. IMO they must have some of the best frontend/ui/designer people out there, especially for a company that’s not huge.
The synth and music apps for the browser are pretty great!
Their UI style didn't change that much since then, they got it right from the start. I wish they'd make an OS and laptops/computers etc., as another design oriented alternative to Apple with an European background. They have the design cred to succeed there.
A lot of the most interesting stuff, e.g. Max for Live and I believe the browser-based audio interfaces, is from Cycling '74, which Ableton acquired in 2017.
I agree. But actually the frontend/UI design of a digital audio workstation, DAW for short, is good or not really depends on personal preference. Sometimes arguments between DAWs can reach the same level as religion war.
Yeah these demos are really well done, but I also wonder how they managed to spend the amount of time that must be required to make these tutorials, is it really just for PR and education? There's fully functional drum and melodic sequencers with an "Export to Live" link that downloads a project file of whatever you've made!
I wonder if they plan on re-using this to release something browser based in the long run?
It's possibly the only piece of software I look forward to using. Everything is right about it. I'm currently remastering a bunch of old albums for digital distribution, so I've been using it a ton. I don't know why every UI isn't required by law to have drag up/down to mean zoom on a timeline/scrollbar type control.
Excellent. I love how there’s no obvious objective here - it feels more like “Here’s a bunch of stuff you can do cool things with.” It’s very appealing and makes me wish I was into music production.
Oh yeah this is super dope. The reason why this works is that Max is a 3rd party programming interface for audio, and Live can interface with Max, hence "Max for Live." It uses some subset of JavaScript. Anybody can develop stuff like this and a lot do, but it's quite challenging in my experience and fortunately Ableton does amazing work like this and always releases their own Max stuff.
Check out Bitwig. Some ex-Ableton engineers split off to rewrite Ableton using modern programming techniques. It has a public JS API for controlling anything in the GUI. Also, has a modular synth mode called the grid (which is similar to Max, but more like eurorack)
> JSON Video – the second example device on how to fetch web data in JSON format: uses #ableton tagged looped videos from the online video sharing service “Vine”.
How old is this? Vine was pretty much shuttered a few years ago, I'd be surprised if there was a way to add new videos or if you could rely on being able to access old ones
Ableton continues to do fantastic things and produce excellent software that genuinely makes me WANT to use it. Connection Kit is just another wonderful tool to help people be more creative with the platform.
This looks great. I am primarily a Logic X guy, but my son uses Ableton mainly for his live act (looping). This announcement has prompted me to dive a little deeper into the Ableton world to see what it is all about.
I know Logic has fairly powerful MIDI connectivity etc., but it looks like this takes it to a whole new level with different audio comms protocols. Wonder if they support PureData at all?
> If you’ve been looking to use Live with technologies like Arduino, LEGO® MINDSTORMS® EV3 and OSC [..]
Can't wait for the first Illenium set played entirely on Mindstorms. \s
I'm actually excited to see what people will do with this. This might eliminate a lot of overhead for people who have really creative ideas but lack the technical proficiency to set connect all the dots themselves.
I am interested in Ableton but pretty much everyone is recommending to either get the lite version(which is bundled with a lot of products) or the Suite version.
Would probably help if there was a installment plan for users who are outside the US.
Keep in mind that Lite version barely has any instruments so you'll have to either use 3rd-party plugins or rely on sampling.
A few month ago I decided to start fresh and removed all pirated DAWs, plugins, purchased Lite version and started learning it in and out. I was surprised how far you can go with just sampling. It was so much fun discovering new sample packs, chopping and remixing songs, trying to make tonal instruments out of weird noises. I've also realized how many popular songs use sampling (for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI). So yeah, setting creative constraints is important ;)
I'm at the point when I'm super at home using Ableton and ready to spend more money on Suit, but holding hopes for black Friday discounts.
Huh, I remember the Lite version being sold at a cheap price, but looks like it's no longer standalone. If you have any musician friends, you can ask if they have spare keys, or to keep you in mind you one when they buy new hardware that may have a bundled key. It comes bundled with so many things, I'm sure I've trashed at least 5 Live Lite keys over time.
I use Live Lite as I've been to cheap to upgrade my 9 Suite up. The plugin and synth limitations are easily offset by 3rd party plugs either free or sale snags. Lite will give you the feel of Live and have you creating at a very low cost, people give away Lite licenses and they follow the upgrade cycle lite 9 to live 10, etc.
Think about investing in a small midi controller which has the lite/intro? version bundled. So you can feel the software and later decide if you’d invest more or not.
Ableton in this case would be without charge for you and you get to keep the controller.
Ardour is my favorite. It took some time to adapt but as a non professional, I don't miss any feature from Ableton anymore. I use Ardour every time I play guitar with some marshall amp sim (https://www.kuassa.com/products/amplifikation-caliburn/) and a few plugins to pock around riffs and experiment by creating drum and bass lines using a midi piano
[+] [-] jakobloekke|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cactus2093|6 years ago|reply
Having to do everything in a GUI is just really tough to do, so I give them props for how good it is, there's no other purely visual programming environment I've tried that is even this usable. I did find the discoverability surprisingly poor when starting out, but after a while I think I now understand the structure and what's possible. But my biggest complaint is it's just soooo slow to do basic things. You have to drag and drop every single little construct, instead of typing "if { } else { }" which takes maybe 5 seconds, you have to drag and arrange and connect like 6 different things which takes at least 20 seconds and a lot more focused dexterity. I also find the freeform spatial layout kind of stressful and dread changing anything, instead of going into a function and editing code or adding a couple of lines of new functionality, you have to drag everything everything else around the page to add space for the extra blocks you want to insert.
I don't want to undersell it, the libraries and building blocks you get in Max are amazing, and the ease of things like working with audio buffers make up for a lot of the painpoints. But I do wish there was a first-class way to connect things together with code instead of the current system, I think it would make iterating much faster and more enjoyable.
[+] [-] elamje|6 years ago|reply
The synth and music apps for the browser are pretty great!
Edit: links
https://learningsynths.ableton.com/
https://learningmusic.ableton.com/
[+] [-] deltron3030|6 years ago|reply
They're one of the pioneers of flat UI's, long before e.g. Apple jumped on that train in 2013. Here's a review with screenshots from 2004: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ableton-live-4
Their UI style didn't change that much since then, they got it right from the start. I wish they'd make an OS and laptops/computers etc., as another design oriented alternative to Apple with an European background. They have the design cred to succeed there.
[+] [-] glup|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eating555|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] squeaky-clean|6 years ago|reply
I wonder if they plan on re-using this to release something browser based in the long run?
https://learningmusic.ableton.com/the-playground.html
[+] [-] eganist|6 years ago|reply
"Writing Custom Control Surfaces for Ableton" - https://diracdeltas.github.io/blog/ableton-midi/
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[+] [-] crucialfelix|6 years ago|reply
btw. I know the cycling 74 team is looking for js developers. Berlin or SF office, maybe remote.
[+] [-] davinic|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smcl|6 years ago|reply
> JSON Video – the second example device on how to fetch web data in JSON format: uses #ableton tagged looped videos from the online video sharing service “Vine”.
How old is this? Vine was pretty much shuttered a few years ago, I'd be surprised if there was a way to add new videos or if you could rely on being able to access old ones
[+] [-] input_sh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ablation|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cyberferret|6 years ago|reply
I know Logic has fairly powerful MIDI connectivity etc., but it looks like this takes it to a whole new level with different audio comms protocols. Wonder if they support PureData at all?
[+] [-] benwad|6 years ago|reply
I also once managed to get PD into Logic X but it took quite a lot of fiddling around.
[+] [-] dna_polymerase|6 years ago|reply
Can't wait for the first Illenium set played entirely on Mindstorms. \s
I'm actually excited to see what people will do with this. This might eliminate a lot of overhead for people who have really creative ideas but lack the technical proficiency to set connect all the dots themselves.
[+] [-] pottering|6 years ago|reply
https://cdm.link/2019/10/mutateful-free-live-coding-ableton/
https://github.com/carrierdown/mutateful/
https://cycling74.com/articles/content-you-need-gibberwocky
http://gibberwocky.cc/
[+] [-] arvinsim|6 years ago|reply
Would probably help if there was a installment plan for users who are outside the US.
[+] [-] szastupov|6 years ago|reply
A few month ago I decided to start fresh and removed all pirated DAWs, plugins, purchased Lite version and started learning it in and out. I was surprised how far you can go with just sampling. It was so much fun discovering new sample packs, chopping and remixing songs, trying to make tonal instruments out of weird noises. I've also realized how many popular songs use sampling (for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI). So yeah, setting creative constraints is important ;)
I'm at the point when I'm super at home using Ableton and ready to spend more money on Suit, but holding hopes for black Friday discounts.
Also, shameless plug https://soundcloud.com/myprivateparadise
[+] [-] puranjay|6 years ago|reply
The Push + Live Suit bundle is good value imo.
Though you should ask what you're going to use it for. I use it mostly as an arranger and honestly, I could have done the same better in Studio One.
[+] [-] bonestamp2|6 years ago|reply
Why? Ableton is a German company.
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[+] [-] mmjaa|6 years ago|reply
http://www.filter24.org/seq24/shots.html
[+] [-] AdrienLemaire|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AdrienLemaire|6 years ago|reply
Edit: This document is a great resource to keep by for when the time is needed :)