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Logitech MX Master 3 vs. 2S Teardown

216 points| Rondom | 6 years ago |blog.bolt.io

189 comments

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[+] lilyball|6 years ago|reply
I love the Logitech hardware quality but I really wish they'd work on their software quality.

I'm using a G502 at work right now with Logitech Gaming Software and the two completely baffling decisions they made with that software on macOS:

1. It has to be running. If I launch it for configuration and hit ⌘Q it stops working and my mouse reverts to the default. I have to remember to close the window instead, which leaves it in the menubar.

2. I can't unmap buttons and have them act as generic HID mouse buttons. I can map buttons to mouse 1, 2, and 3, but I can't go past that. I can map buttons to various special functions, but it would be a hell of a lot more flexible if I could just have mouse 4 and mouse 5 mapped. For example, I can map the "sniper" button to Mission Control, but I can't change its behavior with keyboard modifiers, whereas if it was just Mouse 5 I could use the system configuration to map that to Mission Control and then use keyboard modifiers to change its behavior.

[+] rkho|6 years ago|reply
I hated the Logitech driver, it's been a complete dumpster fire -- constantly disconnecting, disabling certain functionality, and just overall a pain to fight. Ended up switching to SteerMouse, the developer's been crazy responsive and even went out of the way to work on MX Master 3 compatibility + support Smart Zoom functionality when it wasn't even previously up for consideration.
[+] whalesalad|6 years ago|reply
Logitech software is a dumpster fire. For a while there it would start and go to 170-190% CPU and just burn until it was killed.

I share your experience and frustration.

[+] jasomill|6 years ago|reply
You can remap all G502 buttons to HID mouse button events, just not using any Logitech-supplied software.

Fortunately, these mappings are persistent, so reconfiguring the mouse from a Linux VM, once and for all, was, for me at least, a reasonable alternative.

Unfortunately, the mappings are sufficiently persistent that I don't remember the name of the Linux (command-line) utility that I used several years ago to configure my G502, but a quick Google search suggests the Piper[1] GUI app may be up to the task.

Caveat: if you ever plan on using the mouse with Windows, bear in mind that the Windows HID mouse driver only directly supports buttons 1–5 (though I have observed that the remainder do generate events in the underlying driver stack, so you could hypothetically work around this limitation by writing a filter driver to remap the events, assuming no such driver currently exists).

[1] https://github.com/libratbag/piper/

[+] frosted-flakes|6 years ago|reply
The Logitech software for the MX mouse interferes with two-finger touchpad scrolling on my Surface Pro 3. I don't know how or why, but clearly they're doing something very wrong. I went years before I figured out that no, touchpad scrolling is not supposed to scroll three screens per millimetre.
[+] anewguy9000|6 years ago|reply
cant the software settings be saved to mouse memory? thats the case with my mx and it works as configured between multiple machines
[+] leejoramo|6 years ago|reply
That is a very stupid way to design a mouse driver.

But this might help prevent accidental quits. Use the Keyboard System Settings to reassign the quit shortcut for the Logitech app from cmd-q to cmd-opt-q.

[+] bonestamp2|6 years ago|reply
Try downloading "Logi Options", that is the newer logitech mac management software and it solves number 1 at least.
[+] m0xte|6 years ago|reply
Yep. The Windows 10 software is dire. If I RDP into my desktop machine the mouse lights up like a damn Christmas tree and won’t stop until I physically unplug it.

It’s a cheap end G203 which I bought because it has a DPI switch on it so I can jump around easily when doing CAD stuff.

I have considered cracking it open and desoldering the LEDs.

[+] Waterluvian|6 years ago|reply
Texas-sized 10-4 on that. I had to go find a windows PC and install thr software in order to configure the spinny wheel click stop tension thing because there was absolutely no way to do it in Linux. The default mode was infuriating.
[+] deanclatworthy|6 years ago|reply
For those interested, Logitech recently resurrected [1] their most famous mouse. The MX518. At least I was able to now buy it from retailers in Europe :) I love it. Could never get used to the more bulk Logitech mice such as the one in OP.

[1] https://www.techpowerup.com/review/logitech-g-mx518/

[+] rofo1|6 years ago|reply
For MX518 lovers, I've got a strong recommendation for G400s. The shape is almost the same and it's amazing how durable it is. The cable issue is still there, just like in MX518, and eventually (I am guessing) that's the reason I'll have to switch to something else.

I've been using both of them for years and years. Amazing.

[+] whalesalad|6 years ago|reply
The latest one makes my MacBook Pro emit an extremely annoying high pitched noise when moving. I think it’s due to the high refresh frequency of the mouse versus more traditional ones.

It sounds like a squeaky wheel or a squealing (real, animal) mouse.

Other mice do not cause this problem. I mask it out with noise canceling headphones but I’d love a nice mouse that doesn’t cause this behavior. I’ve tried ferrite loops but they do nothing.

[+] fivesixzero|6 years ago|reply
I still have a pair of G5 mice that I use at home and work. It’s good to see Logitech bringing back that design! Other than the MX Master 2S I carry around for mobile use, I’ve never had a mouse fit my grubby paws do perfectly.

Other than a cable replacement and a switch cleaning, both of those original G5’s are still perfectly operational after over a decade of regular use.

[+] swozey|6 years ago|reply
I had 3 of these mice over the years and each one eventually the cable would go bad/loose, I think including my G5, and I'm no fast twitch fps gamer. Looks like they changed he cable on this new one.

Ironically I switched to the MX series (multiple mx2 and mx2s, home/work) and I absolutely love them apart from the problems I used to have where they'd stutter on every OSX machine I used them on. I haven't had that problem in maybe a year, though. Logitech or OSX BT update maybe.

I can't go back to a non MX scroll wheel. I love it.

[+] VectorLock|6 years ago|reply
Wake me up when they resurrect their most famous trackball: The Trackman Marble FX.
[+] fishtacos|6 years ago|reply
Mine was an MX510 and mine also broke down after a cable issue... and then the second one after that. I'm not particularly conspiratorial, but that's 3 out of 3 anectoble circumstances.
[+] willmacdonald|6 years ago|reply
The new mx518 is not as good as the old one. It required some software that did not work properly on macs.
[+] razster|6 years ago|reply
I still use my Mx518 and 310 for LoL and PuBG. They’re still superior in my eyes.
[+] uwuhn|6 years ago|reply
My mouse progression since 2005 has been MX518 - G400S - G903. I used the G502 for a few days when it first came out, and couldn't stand it because it just felt...weird with my grip. It also made my hand hurt.

I'm completely locked into Logitech since I just can't function without a free-scrolling scroll wheel, and they apparently have it patented. I tried some of their other newer mice without free-scrolling, and not having it is just a complete dealbreaker.

I'm very happy with the G903 so far. The worst part was definitely the price. I'm tempted to get the new MX518, but I feel like the G903 is strictly better for my usage right now.

[+] huangc10|6 years ago|reply
I 100% agree with you. Since using the MX Revolution in the late 2000s, I couldn't go back to anything. For me, MX Revolution - G500 - G500 (literally 2 for almost 8 years) - and just this year, the MX Master 2S. Long live the free scroll.
[+] cmer|6 years ago|reply
I've been using the 2S for a while and just bought the MX 3 because I needed an extra mouse.

They managed to improve an already near-perfect mouse. I just love the 3. Probably not worth ditching your 2S for, but nonetheless, a superb upgrade. I always felt the thumb buttons were awkward on the 2S and that has been rectified. The magnetic wheel is also really nice to use.

[+] nwah1|6 years ago|reply
Yes, the thumb buttons seem much better. USB-C is an upgrade.

Only thing that is missing is a wireless charging. Some competitors use Qi charging or a special mousepad, so there's never a need to plug it in.

In 2010, Logitech released a solar-powered keyboard called the K750. Now that batteries and PV cells are improving, and low energy wireless technology is improving, I bet this would be less terrible.

Also in 2010, RCA invented an "Airenergy" device that could harvest ambient wifi signals for use as a power source.

I imagine some combination of the above technologies could eliminate cables from peripherals entirely.

[+] arvinsim|6 years ago|reply
Where I from, the Master 3 is twice the price of the Master 2S. Would you say that it is worth it to still buy the 2S?
[+] Aaron_Putnam|6 years ago|reply
The problem I have with the 2S is that the button clicks are really noisy - I had to swap out to another mouse in my office, since the noise was just too great.
[+] bloopernova|6 years ago|reply
I just wish that MX Master 3 had a couple of extra buttons by the thumb.

My 3 thumb buttons on my Logitech G500 are mapped to: Page Up, Page Down, and Back. Clicking and holding the Page Up button can rapidly take me back to the top of a page without moving my right hand to hit the home key on my keyboard. It's pretty useful, in my opinion, to be able to roughly and quickly scroll with Page Up/Down, then fine tune with the scroll wheel.

Looks like with the MX 3, I'd lose the back button though, because I really don't like the "gesture button" they've added.

Is the thumb-wheel on the MX 3 "clickable"?

[+] hinkley|6 years ago|reply
I think the original MX (what was it called, the 1000? Revolution?) had the three buttons and no thumbwheel and it was great for reading code and for playing a couple video games.

When they added the thumb wheel they moved the buttons too far back to be used comfortably. So it went in a drawer and I went back to the old one, found someone with leftover inventory and bought a spare for when the first wore out. When the second finally gave up the ghost I was not really playing those games anymore, but I still miss scanning code with page-up/page-down.

The 3 seems to compromise between the two. I just noticed it was available a couple days ago, so I'll be ordering one soon I expect.

[+] TheSoftwareGuy|6 years ago|reply
Thumb buttons are hugely under-rated in my opinion. Its the sole reason I bought my G600.
[+] jiofih|6 years ago|reply
If the wheel is 90% faster it seems like you don’t need page up/down shortcuts.
[+] Nowyouknow|6 years ago|reply
> Is the thumb-wheel on the MX 3 "clickable"?

It is not, unfortunately.

[+] emsy|6 years ago|reply
Regarding Logitech Mice, I have the Anywhere MX and the Anywhere MX 2S here. I rarely used the old AMX but still, I got a defective left button switch after about 5 years in which I used it probably less than 500 hours total. Changing the switch is needlessly cumbersome, you have to remove rubber pads and battery stickers (which can't really be removed without destroying them). But the AMX feels solid and the on/off switch also functions as a protector for the laser. You can also store the USB receiver between the batteries.

The AMX 2S is an absolute downgrade: Much cheaper build quality, no more protection for the laser, no user removable battery. The old AMX came with a leather pouch for transportation, the AMX 2S doesn't. On top of that, the Bluetooth connection of the AMX 2S is terrible. I have frequent minute long disconnects from my MBP at 20cm distance. Sometimes it won't connect at all. And the battery doesn't last as long as the rechargeable batteries I put in my AMX 1.

[+] gambiting|6 years ago|reply
I'm on my 9th MX Anywhere(currently on the 2S). They all develop a defective mouse button eventually(it either doesn't click or clicks twice). It's incredible to me that we're now on who knows which iteration of the MX Anywhere and Logitech still uses a crappy 3 cent switch that breaks after 12-18 months. At least their support is somewhat decent and they keep replacing those mice without question every time.
[+] HankB99|6 years ago|reply
> AMX 2S is an absolute downgrade

Add to that no place to store the dongle. And no easy way to switch back to the dongle (unifying receiver) once Bluetooth is configured. You have to use the app to do that. I'm on Linux and there is no app (last time I looked.)

Nor do I care for a cable to charge it. I was happy with replaceable batteries.

I get frequent (Bluetooth) disconnects, though I don't know if it is the mouse or Linux' fault.

[+] zymhan|6 years ago|reply
The MX anywhere is not meant to compete with the MX/MX2S/MX3. The "Anywhere" is a portable mouse, hence the laser cover. The MX 2S and 3 are meant to be left on a desk.
[+] clutch89|6 years ago|reply
The scroll wheel in the Master 3 is totally broken. It doesn’t register scrolls properly. Within 10 seconds I noticed the issue. Same issue across multiple devices and OS’s too. Others have noticed too, like here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/d6yo5j/anyone_...

I returned mine and got a G604, which is a work of art, and you can load settings into on-board memory so you can delete the Logitech software after doing that.

[+] 9935c101ab17a66|6 years ago|reply
Wow the G604 is a really good looking mouse as far as PC mice go.
[+] stuart78|6 years ago|reply
I use the Anywhere MX 2, which is quite good, and would love to try the Master 3, but I mouse left-handed. Would love to see more support from Logitech for this mode, even if it came at a premium.
[+] css|6 years ago|reply
Does the 3rd version fix the polling issues these mice have over Bluetooth? Using the receiver works fine, but over Bluetooth it feels very laggy and jerky to use. They don't offer a USB-C receiver yet.

Here is what it looks like to draw a circle using each protocol: https://imgur.com/a/RP2oLcn

[+] 2bitencryption|6 years ago|reply
Do they make high-quality mice like these for left-handed people?

I'm always jealous by this type of mouse, while I'm stuck using my cheap sad ambidextrous Microsoft mouse.

[+] saltcod|6 years ago|reply
Great mice but I’m surprised no one has mentioned weight. The master 3 is 141g! That’s a brick!

I’ve been hunting for a mouse with this kind of scroll wheel that was less than 90g or so forever. 141g would kill my arm in a few hours.

[+] dlevine|6 years ago|reply
I use an MX Anywhere 2 at work and an MX Anywhere at home. I love both of them (so much that I soldered in new microswitches when the original buttons on the MX Anywhere wore out).

I have never tried an MX Master. I have been curious, but I don't need the second scroll wheel.

I think the software is somewhat convoluted. My actual preference is that Mac OS would support all of the functionality natively. I think it's stupid that we need to use extra programs to get the keyboard/mouse to do what we want.

[+] open-paren|6 years ago|reply
I'm glad they changed the scroll wheel–it was arguably the worst part of the first one. I have had one for a few years, and the mechanical part that determines whether the wheel is free spinning or ratcheting has a tendency to slip over time, making the ratchet less effective until it is all gone. The mouse needs to be opened up every few months to poke the part back down. This is not an uncommon problem and I'm glad the mechanism has been changed.
[+] mclightning|6 years ago|reply
I see that Logitech ramped up their advertising investment again. I looked up the mouse and it shows up on all popular youtube channels with crazy titles.

I remember same thing from the original Performance MX. Everybody said it was a great mouse. I got it, it was terrible. It didn't work on most surfaces. It didn't hold battery long.

Long story short, I will hold off until it stands the test of time for a bit.

[+] optimiz3|6 years ago|reply
Hope they bring the new tech over to the G502 (basically a wired version of the Performance MX suitable for work and gaming).
[+] lmilcin|6 years ago|reply
I no longer care about Logitech mouses after I had THREE premium mouses, in succession, to die to the same problem for me personally and additionally one mouse for a person that I recommended it to. All had exactly the same problem -- double clicks registered when clicking left mouse button.

For a premium brand I find it completely unacceptable. Even though it is possible to fix the problem (https://www.instructables.com/id/Repair-mouse-with-double-cl...), I gave up on Logitech mouses completely.

[+] Navarr|6 years ago|reply
I hope they bring some of the newer improvements and more of the MX Master features to the MX Vertical.

I've found that I really appreciate the different ergonomics of a vertical mouse, but I do miss my side wheel and unlocking scroll

[+] spectramax|6 years ago|reply
Logitech has top quality hardware, but their software is degrading rapidly.

Why does Logitech need to update the mouse software every so often? Installing fresh Windows 10 on a new computer, a popup automatically appears on the bottom-right to download and install Logitech software - without installing anything. This is built-in ads for Windows essentially. Also, Logitech wants us to connect to the internet to create a profile. It nags you constantly.

We need software engineers to push back on these things that are pushed on to them by marketing execs.

[+] jesusthatsgreat|6 years ago|reply
I have an M510 and I love it but it needs to be taken apart and cleaned every year or so. It accumulates an insane amount of crap inside it which if left unchecked will eventually lead you to think there's a software issue or wireless interference as your pages scroll up and down randomly by themselves.

Most people probably just replace mice once they start acting up because they either don't want to bother cleaning it or else don't realise it can be taken apart and cleaned easily which fixes 99% of mice issues.