I've tried to be open and generous to others during the holidays and it almost always results in serious awkwardness. There's a matchmaking problem here. I wish I could magically know who in the neighbourhood I could just knock on the door of and say hi and invite them to the extra seat at our table.
I've had luck at retirement homes. And holy cow if you have little kids, you are so welcome there (as long as you've met the administration and they feel comfortable with you). Joy disobeys the laws of thermodynamics and young children effortlessly generate joy in the elderly.
When a bunch of us relocated to the Valley, we would do annual FriendsGiving and FriendsMas. As everyone has gotten older and busier, more stressed out or departed, that's kind of gone by the wayside.
Later on when I had my startup, my cofounder and our manager-of-everything would find a place for all of the orphans who were like we had been - without anything to do for the holidays because they, too, had recently moved away from their social circle and family. Everyone wins.
So I say: bid the awkwardness and putting yourself out there. I look back at that era fondly and yes, sometimes it was awkward, but mostly it was not. It was always worth it.
(Ironically, this year all of our plans fell apart, so my wife and I are on our own.)
>I wish I could magically know who in the neighbourhood I could just knock on the door of and say hi and invite them to the extra seat at our table.
You should be doing that the second that you or they setup shop in the new neighbourhood.
It makes the christmastime awkwardness much less so!
Because yea, just assuming that a random stranger is going to be lonely for christmas (whether they live down the street from you or not) could make for a really awkward time, I agree!
Shout out to religion here. Everyone in my faith is assigned one or two people to "minister" to and everyone also has someone ministering to them. Instant friends. And no need for the elderly to be completely alone and have to turn to craigslist. I can't imagine this need going unfilled in the structure of my local church community.
Obviously with the decline of religion, this situation will only become more common. People need a built in community structure, and nothing has stepped up to replace church yet. I don't think r/atheism is going to fill that void anytime soon.
I wish there was a practical way to keep these parts of religion without having to believe in the supernatural or the truth of one specific ancient book.
If I could find a structured community of dedicated people who just want to have community and connection I would join. But I don’t want to have to commit to any of the crazy stuff religions tend to want you to believe.
This made my day. So nice to be reminded that there people trying to care for each other and make a positive difference in the lives of those around them.
I come from a family of immigrants. Growing up, I at times felt oppressed by the constant throng of cousins and uncles and aunts and family friends at our home...but now that I'm older I greatly appreciate the dense social fabric that envelops my life. I sometimes think that the dark side of a society that extols individuality and independence is the possibility of immense alienation. I'm grateful to live in a country that creates space for self-expression and agency, but I sometimes think that for those who are not used to being part of a big community, life can become quite lonely.
It's something I'm struggling with now, tbh. I'm not an immigrant but my extended family is fairy close, even out to second cousins (my grandmother's brothers are super close to her, so our families get along; same with part of my grandfather's siblings), and I know I'll miss it. Yet, sadly, there's not many jobs here and if I stay I'll likely stay teaching, which isn't bad but I'm not sure how I long I'd last before burnout.
I've got an offer to leave and study Quantitative Finance in a completely different country (one I want to move to and have visited many times) and am wondering if it's worth it. Man, it's difficult. Not to mention all my friends being here too (though I do have some in the new country, thankfully). Having that social inclusion and closeness is super nice, and I know I'd miss it.
same. but extended family rarely gets along and really is a force of opression. My cousins family was stigmatized by the extended family when he came out as gay. He feels the constant guilt.
All the extended families i've seen are full of gossip, jealousies and backstabbing. Maybe all those things make us human too i don't know.
As an immigrant (moved US->Southeast London) who probably won't be able to have kids, I find that I really wish there was a way to become an 'uncle' somehow. Modern society gives us a lot of choice and mobility, but also a lot of ways to find ourselves unrooted.
The LGBTQ community originated the concept of "Chosen Family", people you willfully make a connection with as deep as blood family ties. As you can imagine, this is a particularly pressing need for people who are forcefully severed from their families, often at a very young age.
Some of us have to work mindfully to get something many people take for granted. Hopefully naming the idea gives you a way to talk about it with other people.
Is there a Big Brothers/Big Sisters program in the UK? Or perhaps an opportunity to help serve meals to the elderly or homeless or impoverished? I tend to volunteer on holidays if I'm not headed to a family gathering. Meals on Wheels is a great program in the US and it involves a lot more than just dropping off food.
Interesting to see this here tonight. Just a few hours ago, my wife mentioned to me what she heard from some nurses: apparently, Christmas is one of the busiest times in hospitals, because a lot of people with elderly parents and grandparents would invent illnesses (or even cause them, by e.g. hiding or substituting medicine) to get them admitted to hospitals during Christmas, just to avoid having to have a Christmas dinner.
She also told me that some time ago, there was an ad aired about this problem in Poland; it featured an elderly man who tried, year after year, to invite his family for Christmas, to no effect. He eventually posted a notice about his own funeral, and as the family came and was surprised to see him alive, he brought in the dinner and said, "because that was the only way I could get you here".
Stories like this make me sick in my stomach. No matter the bad blood that can be present in a family, I just can't imagine how one can treat one's own parents this way.
It's not the kids responsibility to make sure their grown adult parents have a social life. That's even more depressing.
I totally understand where people are coming from with that though -- the parents gave life and raised the kids, so shouldn't the kids repay them? The only thing is, the kids didn't (as far as we know) choose to be brought into life and have the experiences with the family they had. Maybe they were terrible or at best for some, neutral. Then, why would they feel the need to "pay back" for that?
Finally, would you rather someone hang out with you because they feel guilty obligation to do so versus happy freeness to do so? I wouldn't want someone feeling guilted into spending time with me because they "owe me one." If it was from a place of "happy freeness," then sure.
I feel like, with the man, it really depends. There’s some cases where the elderly parents may have caused so much trauma to a now grown child that they don’t want to have to interact with them again, which is unfortunately common with my friend group. Sometimes it’s just .. better that way.
Edit: When I think about it, the most well known ad for Christmas in Poland is the one below - it's related to the fact that there are a huge number of young Poles that emigrated to the UK.
There are terrible families out there. Just because it’s family doesn’t mean you have to suffer permanently. Some people have kids for the sake of having them, not caring about their well-being at all. In other words, being a parent doesn’t make you a good parent or person.
I get your point though. Family should be first (IMHO) and even major disagreements shouldn’t be met with ghosting. Sometimes it’s just unbearable, and it’s the only choice unfortunately.
I grew up with my dad physically beating the family (mom and kids), breaking our stuff, my mother excusing his behavior and telling us (kids) we were they problem, both of my parents berating me daily that I'm a worthless human being, everything I did was wrong, and that they hated me and wish I was never born.
Why would I voluntarily subject myself to this? Because they are my parents? Well I didn't want any of this; I didn't ask to be born.
> No matter the bad blood that can be present in a family, I just can't imagine how one can treat one's own parents this way.
Respectfully, you don’t know shit about the families of other people.
It is possible for a person to have subjected their children to life-altering trauma, and many years later be playing the sweet and lonely old person. There’s enough manipulative guilt already without strangers on the internet adding to it, or minimising the emotional wounds of abuse as “bad blood”.
>The woman in Tulsa, who identified herself only as Carrie, said she had been fighting cancer and was estranged from her daughter, who has refused to let her see her granddaughter even though both live close by.
>“I really thought the feeling would go away, but my heart is so broken,” she said in an email. She posted the ad on Dec. 11, then went to her granddaughter’s dance studio and sat outside, hoping to catch a peek of her through the window.
interesting that this is sprinkled in there, this is super weird boundary breaking behavior. I wonder if its related to why they no longer talk.
>In the end, Carrie said she decided to spend Christmas with friends.
Wait, all this time she had friends to spend time with? Honestly this seems more like her complaining about her estrangement from her family, than it does about being lonely.
I bet the estranged daughter's story would read a lot differently, and would love to read it.
This is a pretty clear case of stalking.
When children cut the connection to their parents, it is super easy to side with the poor mother. However, people tend to ignore that the pressure for the children must have been quite high to go to such an extend. This makes me sad, since I know how it feels if your parents dont respect boundaries.
A desperate, lonely person, facing mortality, does what they can to see people she loves but isn't allowed to visit due to estrangement? That's "super weird" to you?
Unpopular opinion, there is always more complexity and culpability in these sentimental stories.
Even in the broken social fabric of Western culture, there are still many opportunities to contribute to and find genuine community.
However it requires a sense of humility and focus on others overself. Among other things.
I know of many 'lonely' people who are highly dysfunctional and have burned their family and other communities that have tried to engage them.
Sometimes people do get a raw deal and are genuine victims. Other times people reap the whirlwind of their own bad behaviours and attitudes. Sometimes a mix of both. Life is messy.
Just want to chime in that there is nothing wrong with spending your time alone during the holidays. I have family but I’d rather travel during this time for leisure. What’s so bad about being alone? I prefer it honestly. It allows me to contemplate on the past year and reflect on myself. With family all you will get is petty family politics, gossip, bringing up things that happened years ago, etc.
I imagine things are difficult if you already feel lonely outside of the holidays. At that point, having to be alone during them, when you know and see that so many others do have company, it really stings.
Outside the holidays being alone can be 'an accident of circumstance'. During them, being alone can feel like confirmation there is no-one for you.
It’s a brilliantly organized scheme - you get online training and a telephone interview before you go live and it just requires you to give up 30 minutes of your time a week to talk and listen for 30 minutes. I signed up and it is brilliant- and so well organized
One thing I don't understand about American culture is thanksgiving and how it interracts with Christmas. If your family meets up for thanksgiving does that mean Christmas isn't so important to meet up with extended family?
We have an elderly neighbour who has 3 children and I'm horrified to find out she'll be alone at Christmas, but they all met up just a few weeks ago so I'm not sure if its normal or not.
God I need one . So damn lonely in the LA suburbs; moved from Russia, no friends, no coworkers, no relatives, basically it'll be a usual day in the office for me. I could cook a meal, but I have noone to share it with.
Living in a densely populated city like LA just compounds the loneliness as you are constantly surrounded by happy people and groups of friends/family. I went through it myself for a few years. The best thing i did was to go find a random spot to eat out. Eating alone used to be really hard for me, but i got over it and i would come home feeling 100% better mood.
Why not meet up with other people in the same situation (possibly also elderly)?
I have at times invited friends who didn't want to celebrate with their family. But a complete stranger would be too much for me (with little children).
I'm not Christian, so I may have some terms wrong here, but:
Isn't Christmas a religious holiday? Can she not attend a mass or a Christmas service and participate in Church events around the holidays? Isn't this one of the main functions the Church provides? Wouldn't there be many opportunities in nearly any Church for social activities?
My local Jewish minyan is having an event tonight with a public menorah lighting, traditional food, games (including an Oculus VR Hanukkah experience!). There were plenty of opportunities to meet people the past few days and during the week. That's one of the functions of a religious community. We sent out public notices on Nextdoor, etc, and invited everybody in the community.
I was reading this post and found it interesting enough to reply too. I am also a grandma so I know what pleasure it is. I had a son and a daughter, my son died when he was in his early 20's, he had one daughter that I do not get to see. I was blessed with a daughter that shared her kids with me, I always thanked her and I knew without a doubt I was very blessed. 14 and a half years I pretty much raised these kids, I didn't ask to but was more than happy to do so. Mom and dad were good parents until my son died then the second child was born and something happened. They weren't interested in the kids at all, they were consumed with computer games. Then came a third child, my daughter kept getting more and more violent toward me but as long as it was toward me we were fine I just wanted the kids to be safe. Long story short, after 14 and a half years of being with these kids daily, living with the girls the last 2 years my daughter turned into someone I didn't recognize anymore, she was violent toward me and the kids. We lived in the same house I was in the basement they were upstairs, I kept the payment up on the house and other bills because they wouldn't they took my money but didn't pay the bills. It got very dangerous with my daughter so I tried to help my grandkids. In the emotional state of mind I was in everything I did turned out backwards.My daughter lied of course to everyone said I was controlling and wouldn't let her raise her kids. I am sure she looked this stuff up on line. I fell apart because of what my daughter was saying. I ended up seeing a councellor trying to get back on track, dfs gave the kids back to mom and dad, mom and dad high tailed it out of the state with the kids leaving behind loans they took out and never repaid. With the help of DFS and other people my son in law and daughter were able to change the kids, immediately I hesitate to put this in here because I have been accused of so many things in order to make me look bad. Mom and dad left the state and I have tried to talk to the kids on pinterest but they told on me. Im guessing that's how they get their attention. I worrt about them daily how is this going to affect them, I have had the hardest time understanding how you could turn one human against another, the parents and others told the two girls that grandma didn't want them, they made the girls feel like I didn't love them and I never did. They have somehow convinced these two girls of this. I have not been allowed to see these kids in two years, this has actually been harder to deal with than my sons death. My sister is on GitHub here and she creates hacks to watch me constantly. The harrassment has been horrible. Its been very heartbreaking and eye opening. Parents can have mental problems but if they have never been arrested for drugs then they are good people. My heart has just been shattered, I used to sit along the bus route hoping to see their bus go by just to get the tiniest glimpse, I meant no harm I was just so homesick for them. Lately I have been needing to hear their voices. Im deemed as a bad grandma but I never lied I never did anything against my daughter I didn't even bye presents for them without asking. So the point of this post don't always assume grandma has done wrong just because mommy said she did, maybe mommy has some problems of her own. I feel so badly for any grandmother that has to be away from their grandkids right now. Have a merry Christmas and thanks for letting me post!
Sometimes I feel it's only the crappy people who need families. The people not enjoyable enough for others to willingly choose to put up with them, they need a form of forced social duty and enact it through guilt and pitty.
That said, especially for elderly people, it could just be circumstances of life that has played into them being lonely.
The issue is, if I'm to open up and invite a stranger in, how do I know which category they belong in? I feel probability wise, chances are they're of the former, and are probably boring, judgmental, uptight, have issues, etc. Which is why they're lonely in the first place.
So while I'd be okay opening up to lovely people, the risk of doing so is too high right now, without it happening organically.
I really dislike emotional article titles like this.
There is a bond or there isn’t. Honestly, I feel like it’s better if we can ‘retire’ emotionally like we do from a job. Getting old is inevitable(for now)..when someone is in their 60s-70s, their children are probably in their middle age dealing with their own families and crises.
Children are insurance for our genetic material. Not financial or emotional crutches. Some might not feel that way, but I think having expectations and cultivating detachment as one grows older is a better attitude. Heck! I have been trying to cultivate detachment from the time I hit 35 and it’s a process. I hope to get it right by my 5th or 6th decade, at least!
[+] [-] Waterluvian|6 years ago|reply
I've had luck at retirement homes. And holy cow if you have little kids, you are so welcome there (as long as you've met the administration and they feel comfortable with you). Joy disobeys the laws of thermodynamics and young children effortlessly generate joy in the elderly.
[+] [-] foobiekr|6 years ago|reply
Later on when I had my startup, my cofounder and our manager-of-everything would find a place for all of the orphans who were like we had been - without anything to do for the holidays because they, too, had recently moved away from their social circle and family. Everyone wins.
So I say: bid the awkwardness and putting yourself out there. I look back at that era fondly and yes, sometimes it was awkward, but mostly it was not. It was always worth it.
(Ironically, this year all of our plans fell apart, so my wife and I are on our own.)
[+] [-] flyGuyOnTheSly|6 years ago|reply
You should be doing that the second that you or they setup shop in the new neighbourhood.
It makes the christmastime awkwardness much less so!
Because yea, just assuming that a random stranger is going to be lonely for christmas (whether they live down the street from you or not) could make for a really awkward time, I agree!
[+] [-] forgotmypw|6 years ago|reply
I've witnessed people talk about it like it's the plague.
It's just a bit of discomfort, and then you move on.
[+] [-] ydb|6 years ago|reply
Absolutely agree. We need an efficient algorithm for matching based upon common interests, agreeability, and politeness.
I wonder if matchmaking algorithms from video games would come in handy for this? I think the League of Legends queue algo would be perfect for this.
[+] [-] ngngngng|6 years ago|reply
Obviously with the decline of religion, this situation will only become more common. People need a built in community structure, and nothing has stepped up to replace church yet. I don't think r/atheism is going to fill that void anytime soon.
[+] [-] Scarblac|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] newshorts|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] celeritascelery|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lordleft|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dorchadas|6 years ago|reply
I've got an offer to leave and study Quantitative Finance in a completely different country (one I want to move to and have visited many times) and am wondering if it's worth it. Man, it's difficult. Not to mention all my friends being here too (though I do have some in the new country, thankfully). Having that social inclusion and closeness is super nice, and I know I'd miss it.
[+] [-] dominotw|6 years ago|reply
All the extended families i've seen are full of gossip, jealousies and backstabbing. Maybe all those things make us human too i don't know.
[+] [-] afarrell|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danharaj|6 years ago|reply
Some of us have to work mindfully to get something many people take for granted. Hopefully naming the idea gives you a way to talk about it with other people.
[+] [-] wavefunction|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mc3|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] booleandilemma|6 years ago|reply
https://www.businessinsider.sg/you-can-now-rent-middle-aged-...
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|6 years ago|reply
She also told me that some time ago, there was an ad aired about this problem in Poland; it featured an elderly man who tried, year after year, to invite his family for Christmas, to no effect. He eventually posted a notice about his own funeral, and as the family came and was surprised to see him alive, he brought in the dinner and said, "because that was the only way I could get you here".
Stories like this make me sick in my stomach. No matter the bad blood that can be present in a family, I just can't imagine how one can treat one's own parents this way.
[+] [-] jupiter90000|6 years ago|reply
I totally understand where people are coming from with that though -- the parents gave life and raised the kids, so shouldn't the kids repay them? The only thing is, the kids didn't (as far as we know) choose to be brought into life and have the experiences with the family they had. Maybe they were terrible or at best for some, neutral. Then, why would they feel the need to "pay back" for that?
Finally, would you rather someone hang out with you because they feel guilty obligation to do so versus happy freeness to do so? I wouldn't want someone feeling guilted into spending time with me because they "owe me one." If it was from a place of "happy freeness," then sure.
[+] [-] Operyl|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TheAlchemist|6 years ago|reply
Here is the ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COtJ_5-dPM
Edit: When I think about it, the most well known ad for Christmas in Poland is the one below - it's related to the fact that there are a huge number of young Poles that emigrated to the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU5Rnd-HM6A
[+] [-] outime|6 years ago|reply
I get your point though. Family should be first (IMHO) and even major disagreements shouldn’t be met with ghosting. Sometimes it’s just unbearable, and it’s the only choice unfortunately.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] astura|6 years ago|reply
I grew up with my dad physically beating the family (mom and kids), breaking our stuff, my mother excusing his behavior and telling us (kids) we were they problem, both of my parents berating me daily that I'm a worthless human being, everything I did was wrong, and that they hated me and wish I was never born.
Why would I voluntarily subject myself to this? Because they are my parents? Well I didn't want any of this; I didn't ask to be born.
[+] [-] cm2012|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peteretep|6 years ago|reply
Respectfully, you don’t know shit about the families of other people.
It is possible for a person to have subjected their children to life-altering trauma, and many years later be playing the sweet and lonely old person. There’s enough manipulative guilt already without strangers on the internet adding to it, or minimising the emotional wounds of abuse as “bad blood”.
[+] [-] eirini1|6 years ago|reply
>“I really thought the feeling would go away, but my heart is so broken,” she said in an email. She posted the ad on Dec. 11, then went to her granddaughter’s dance studio and sat outside, hoping to catch a peek of her through the window.
interesting that this is sprinkled in there, this is super weird boundary breaking behavior. I wonder if its related to why they no longer talk.
[+] [-] rahidz|6 years ago|reply
>In the end, Carrie said she decided to spend Christmas with friends.
Wait, all this time she had friends to spend time with? Honestly this seems more like her complaining about her estrangement from her family, than it does about being lonely.
I bet the estranged daughter's story would read a lot differently, and would love to read it.
[+] [-] mlang23|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aguyfromnb|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kwijibob|6 years ago|reply
Even in the broken social fabric of Western culture, there are still many opportunities to contribute to and find genuine community.
However it requires a sense of humility and focus on others overself. Among other things.
I know of many 'lonely' people who are highly dysfunctional and have burned their family and other communities that have tried to engage them.
Sometimes people do get a raw deal and are genuine victims. Other times people reap the whirlwind of their own bad behaviours and attitudes. Sometimes a mix of both. Life is messy.
[+] [-] 0x8BADF00D|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] echelon|6 years ago|reply
In the case of elders, they often lack any tangible social contact. Let alone with that of their own families.
A small subset of people will be fine living life completely aloof, but we're social animals -- this would drive the majority of us crazy.
[+] [-] rocqua|6 years ago|reply
Outside the holidays being alone can be 'an accident of circumstance'. During them, being alone can feel like confirmation there is no-one for you.
(Note, not my feelings, no need to worry)
[+] [-] Angostura|6 years ago|reply
It’s a brilliantly organized scheme - you get online training and a telephone interview before you go live and it just requires you to give up 30 minutes of your time a week to talk and listen for 30 minutes. I signed up and it is brilliant- and so well organized
[+] [-] rb808|6 years ago|reply
We have an elderly neighbour who has 3 children and I'm horrified to find out she'll be alone at Christmas, but they all met up just a few weeks ago so I'm not sure if its normal or not.
[+] [-] aussiegreenie|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] YarickR2|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryaan_anthony|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rocqua|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spodek|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brenden2|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adventskalender|6 years ago|reply
Not that the situation couldn't be improved, though.
[+] [-] jchallis|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adventskalender|6 years ago|reply
I have at times invited friends who didn't want to celebrate with their family. But a complete stranger would be too much for me (with little children).
[+] [-] fortran77|6 years ago|reply
Isn't Christmas a religious holiday? Can she not attend a mass or a Christmas service and participate in Church events around the holidays? Isn't this one of the main functions the Church provides? Wouldn't there be many opportunities in nearly any Church for social activities?
My local Jewish minyan is having an event tonight with a public menorah lighting, traditional food, games (including an Oculus VR Hanukkah experience!). There were plenty of opportunities to meet people the past few days and during the week. That's one of the functions of a religious community. We sent out public notices on Nextdoor, etc, and invited everybody in the community.
[+] [-] hackedoff|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] didibus|6 years ago|reply
That said, especially for elderly people, it could just be circumstances of life that has played into them being lonely.
The issue is, if I'm to open up and invite a stranger in, how do I know which category they belong in? I feel probability wise, chances are they're of the former, and are probably boring, judgmental, uptight, have issues, etc. Which is why they're lonely in the first place.
So while I'd be okay opening up to lovely people, the risk of doing so is too high right now, without it happening organically.
[+] [-] jelliclesfarm|6 years ago|reply
There is a bond or there isn’t. Honestly, I feel like it’s better if we can ‘retire’ emotionally like we do from a job. Getting old is inevitable(for now)..when someone is in their 60s-70s, their children are probably in their middle age dealing with their own families and crises.
Children are insurance for our genetic material. Not financial or emotional crutches. Some might not feel that way, but I think having expectations and cultivating detachment as one grows older is a better attitude. Heck! I have been trying to cultivate detachment from the time I hit 35 and it’s a process. I hope to get it right by my 5th or 6th decade, at least!