Yes, I'll be really interested to see what happens in Europe in particular as the US has longer term relationships with governments and others there and you would think this would lead to fewer contracts (at least on the govt/large company front). That said, many of my colleagues in Europe even though they know about Huawei's potential transfer of data to China and are no fans of the Chinese government still choose their phones based on price and many of the countries I visit (Kyiv, France, etc.) have nice Huawei showrooms and seem to be doing good business.
When asking colleagues about why they would choose Huawei aside from price (all of them could afford Apple if they wanted) the common response I got was that everyone is spying on everyone anyways and usually a joke about is China really any worse than the U.S.
I live in a Chinese dominated country. I can tell you this is because of the absurd nationalistic view that the Chinese hold. For example, I know atleast 5 co-workers who sold their iPhones to get a Huawei when the sanction was made. Part of the reason was Huawei phones' prices (even new ones) drastically dropped when the announcement of no more Android support was made, so these guys (and girls) got it at a super good price, but most of it is due to the nationalistic view that they hold towards China. "US is evil, I should support China at such times!" this was the explanation I was given. I was blown away that people could be so nationalistic. I'm neither Chinese nor American, so it was interesting to observe from a neutral standpoint, such nationalistic attitude from people who held double degrees / PhDs who simply believed US is evil and China is the victim. This was very noticeable when Huawei's CFO was arrested. I tried to understand why, so I threw many arguments at them such as Huawei was actually caught sending data back to 3rd party servers in China and I even tried explaining maybe the sanction is on them because they broke the law/agreement w/ the US. But it didn't seem to change anything about the way they thought. They still went ahead and purchased Huawei products like crazy.
> because of the absurd nationalistic view that the Chinese hold
Nothing absurd about it. The US government is trying to coerce the Chinese government. Great time for them to feel nationalistic.
> I tried to understand why, so I threw many arguments at them such as Huawei was actually caught sending data back to 3rd party servers in China and I even tried explaining maybe the sanction is on them because they broke the law/agreement w/ the US.
The core of that argument rests on the idea that Chinese people should accept that the US can dictate how they deal with Iran. And that the US can choose how to enforce compliance to that law. Both of those assumptions are flaky at a basic Chinese-people-should-agree-with-this level.
International rule of law would be nice, but the US doesn't particularly constrain themselves by rule of law in the international sphere - they've invaded a lot of countries on flimsy pretexts. That is much worse than trading with people. After that example, why should the Chinese worry about international rules that are inconvenient? For all the fact that their government is brutal and terrifying it hasn't invaded anywhere in the middle east in the last 20 years.
As a Chinese who spent 7 years in the US and now back in China. I can tell the difference between nationalistic view then (before 2010) and now. Common people used to blindly believe the superiority of the system, but now they believe it with evidence. All things considered, more people are well-educated and they do not blindly believe anything any more. So if they do like something, it must have some real benefit. Actually, Huawei has its own PR crisis just a couple of weeks ago when media exposed that one former Huawei employee was wrongfully jailed for 251 days. I have friends switch from Huawei and to Huawei with all kinds of reasons, but mostly, it is performance and price ratio.
China benefits from conflict with America. It foments exactly this kind of reactionary nationalism.
The US during the Cold War could rally around large national programs (e.g. space race) and wars (e.g. Vietnam) because there was a foreign enemy. That enemy could be foreign actor (Russia) or an idea (communism) or a person (Saddam, for example.)
The spirit of "do your part" is deeply appealing to our core desire to form tribe. The strongest sense of Us comes from a Them.
I live in India and not a big fan of China but I purchased a Huawei phone recently. I think Huwei benefited from the publicity they got through US campaign against them.
It would have been nice to have US manufacturer of Android phones, not only iOS devices. Sadly, no such thing existed (Google Pixel is not what I meant).
Like some other commenters, I'd also like to know which this mythical "chinese dominated country" is. Why not just say I'm from X, rather than being so cryptic? So many anecdotal propaganda start off with such vague comments.
> I can tell you this is because of the absurd nationalistic view that the Chinese hold.
What "absurd" nationalistic views do they hold that you or anyone else doesn't hold? I think everyone, including you, hold the same absurd nationalist views. I suspect that's why you wrote such a strange anti-chinese comment.
> For example, I know atleast 5 co-workers who sold their iPhones to get a Huawei when the sanction was made.
That's it? In a trade war with the US, "nationalistics" chinese are buying chinese products? In the US, we had "buy american" for decades - even without the trade war.
> "US is evil, I should support China at such times!"
You mean during a US led trade war against china, the chinese are calling the US evil and supporting their own nation? Do you think they should support the US?
> This was very noticeable when Huawei's CFO was arrested. I tried to understand why, so I threw many arguments at them such as Huawei was actually caught sending data back to 3rd party servers in China ...
But your arguments had nothing to do with the CFO's arrest. The CFO was arrested because she allegedly lied to banks in order to evade sanctions on Iran and trade with them.
There are so many vague "anecdotal" anti-chinese propaganda all over social media that I'm having a hard time believing its not coordinated in some manner.
You are trying to make your "chinese" collegues look bad but they are acting like every person would. I'm sure if your "chinese dominated country" were being attacked with a trade war, you'd side with your own nation right?
Their revenue is below expectations. Their revenue growth is lower than a year ago. And they lowered expectations for 2020. In other words, the revenue is projected to hit $122B because of the US sanctions, not despite it. Otherwise, the revenue, growth and expectations would have been a lot higher.
Wish the "news" would just print the facts without the spin for a change.
Huawei is (essentially) a state-owned company - I don't think they are calculating revenue using external auditor and comply with GAAP. It is not comparable with any publicly traded companies.
[+] [-] lettergram|6 years ago|reply
11% of their business came from other south pacific countries (which they have a large stake in)
6% from the Americas.
30% of their revenue came from Europe-Africa-Middle East, which is the real "battle ground" for them.
https://www.huawei.com/us/press-events/annual-report/2018
[+] [-] atlasunshrugged|6 years ago|reply
When asking colleagues about why they would choose Huawei aside from price (all of them could afford Apple if they wanted) the common response I got was that everyone is spying on everyone anyways and usually a joke about is China really any worse than the U.S.
[+] [-] avocado4|6 years ago|reply
Rate of growth slower than expected, according the the article.
[+] [-] neya|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roenxi|6 years ago|reply
Nothing absurd about it. The US government is trying to coerce the Chinese government. Great time for them to feel nationalistic.
> I tried to understand why, so I threw many arguments at them such as Huawei was actually caught sending data back to 3rd party servers in China and I even tried explaining maybe the sanction is on them because they broke the law/agreement w/ the US.
The core of that argument rests on the idea that Chinese people should accept that the US can dictate how they deal with Iran. And that the US can choose how to enforce compliance to that law. Both of those assumptions are flaky at a basic Chinese-people-should-agree-with-this level.
International rule of law would be nice, but the US doesn't particularly constrain themselves by rule of law in the international sphere - they've invaded a lot of countries on flimsy pretexts. That is much worse than trading with people. After that example, why should the Chinese worry about international rules that are inconvenient? For all the fact that their government is brutal and terrifying it hasn't invaded anywhere in the middle east in the last 20 years.
[+] [-] yzh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tyre|6 years ago|reply
The US during the Cold War could rally around large national programs (e.g. space race) and wars (e.g. Vietnam) because there was a foreign enemy. That enemy could be foreign actor (Russia) or an idea (communism) or a person (Saddam, for example.)
The spirit of "do your part" is deeply appealing to our core desire to form tribe. The strongest sense of Us comes from a Them.
[+] [-] KorematsuFred|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xvilka|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wyxuan|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 20191224234044|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ryuukk_|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] iseeuseeme|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Iwan-Zotow|6 years ago|reply
Americans could be patriotic (GOOD!)
Chinese could only be nationalistic (BAD!)
[+] [-] elfexec|6 years ago|reply
Like some other commenters, I'd also like to know which this mythical "chinese dominated country" is. Why not just say I'm from X, rather than being so cryptic? So many anecdotal propaganda start off with such vague comments.
> I can tell you this is because of the absurd nationalistic view that the Chinese hold.
What "absurd" nationalistic views do they hold that you or anyone else doesn't hold? I think everyone, including you, hold the same absurd nationalist views. I suspect that's why you wrote such a strange anti-chinese comment.
> For example, I know atleast 5 co-workers who sold their iPhones to get a Huawei when the sanction was made.
That's it? In a trade war with the US, "nationalistics" chinese are buying chinese products? In the US, we had "buy american" for decades - even without the trade war.
> "US is evil, I should support China at such times!"
You mean during a US led trade war against china, the chinese are calling the US evil and supporting their own nation? Do you think they should support the US?
> This was very noticeable when Huawei's CFO was arrested. I tried to understand why, so I threw many arguments at them such as Huawei was actually caught sending data back to 3rd party servers in China ...
But your arguments had nothing to do with the CFO's arrest. The CFO was arrested because she allegedly lied to banks in order to evade sanctions on Iran and trade with them.
There are so many vague "anecdotal" anti-chinese propaganda all over social media that I'm having a hard time believing its not coordinated in some manner.
You are trying to make your "chinese" collegues look bad but they are acting like every person would. I'm sure if your "chinese dominated country" were being attacked with a trade war, you'd side with your own nation right?
[+] [-] rogerkirkness|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cyph0n|6 years ago|reply
Disclaimer: I work in Cisco’s SP routing group.
[+] [-] elfexec|6 years ago|reply
Wish the "news" would just print the facts without the spin for a change.
[+] [-] ktln2|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Iwan-Zotow|6 years ago|reply
2. "and comply with GAAP" - they don't. Accounting in China is IFRS based, as far as I know.
[+] [-] bigpumpkin|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gjooberb|6 years ago|reply
How does one steal technology that no other company posses?
[+] [-] neonate|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] monocasa|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway1997|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rolltiide|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PostOnce|6 years ago|reply
Let us hope sanctions don't fall apart as a tool, lest we end up with a much less pleasant tool: war.
[+] [-] Kurd|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wyxuan|6 years ago|reply