Thailand has successfully put a lot of effort in exporting cuisine.
It's no wonder that Pad Thai and other Thai cuisine is ubiquitous in many countries, with the Thai government putting so much effort into 'gastrodiplomacy' [0][1]. I'm certainly not complaining!
What’s interesting is that Thai food in some east Asian countries is considered fancy and the price reflects that while in North America most of them (but not all) are the affordable kind —that is on par with other non-fancy food joints.
Interestingly, it turns out that competent governments are able to export culture and brand in a directed, purposeful way (as opposed to organic) if they put enough money and effort behind the effort and have the right kind of staffing.
It's fascinating because most government tourism boards rarely achieve success. I'd never have imagined that bureaucrats would know anything about promoting the arts.
> most government tourism boards rarely achieve success
How do you figure that? Most government tourism advertising is branding, and not specific to a business (it's usually "Visit X" with some motivational photos, where X is a country or region). Countries certainly have brands, are perceived in a certain way. Are you suggesting that brand advertising has no effect on this? Is it that brand advertising works for brands other than countries?
> It's fascinating because most government tourism boards rarely achieve success.
I don't agree with this. There are many examples of Tourism boards successfully selling a country really well. 100% Pure New Zealand, Incredible India, etc
The article was about food but glossed over one point: the kingdom of Siam was multi-ethnic, including various people with shared connections across borders (e.g. muslim Malays, Hmong, Karen, Chinese, etc). Switching to "Thai" land was intended to marginalize these other factions. I mention this because the name change was blandly listed along with mentioning the desire to dechinesify the noodles' origin.
This was very much the tenor of the times: Hungary had achieved dual status in the "Austro-Hungarian" empire half a century before; by the 30s "national" self determination was all the rage thanks to WW1, Woodrow Wilson, and picking apart the bones of the Ottoman Empire.
I am not a member of any of the groups involved with no axe to grind (at least in this regard!). But since the article was both a fun trivia piece but brushed against this topic I thought it worth clarifying.
This article and your comment actually clarified a lot for me. I always thought it was strange how many quintessentially "Thai" things have the word "Thai" in their names (muay thai, pad Thai, Thai tea, etc.) It didn't seem natural that people would make stuff and then self-consciously name it after their own ethnicity. It would be like Indians calling their tea preparation "Indian Tea" rather than just using "chai," the native Indian word for "tea."
The Indianness of the tea wouldn't have been a relevant thing if it's being made in India for other Indians after all. So why would Thai people invent a style of boxing and then call it "Thai style boxing" even in their native language?
It hadn't occurred to me that it was all a top-down effort to create a "national identity" and didn't organically develop from the folk culture at all.
National self-determination movements go back far before the 1930s and indeed that’s (one of the primary reasons) why the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires started to break up in the late 19th century. WW1 and its aftermath were just the final steps.
Apparently my favourite pad see ew (I've seen at least 5+ spellings of that over the years so pick the one you like) is Chinese inspired too and wears it a bit more proudly.
Ramen is also a modern food, but at the opposite end of the spectrum compared to Pad Thai.
Pad Thai is top down designed. Made by the government to be appreciated by most people, but with enough character to make it distinctive of the country.
Ramen is bottom up. That's essentially people trying to make survival food taste good.
And it shows. The base recipe for Pad Thai is always the same, just like with traditional food. Individual chefs then add their own personal touch.
Ramen however vary wildly. It is a soup, and there are noodles in it but beside that there is no real recipe. There are some common themes (ex: pork, onion, seaweed, ...), but you will probably find more exception than there are rules.
While a restaurant can claim it serves "true" Pad Thai, "true" Ramen makes no sense.
One local place here served haggis nachos. The lungs, heart, and liver of a sheep boiled, ground, seasoned, mixed with oatmeal and stuffed in its own rectum to be boiled again then chopped and sprinkled over corn chips with salsa and cheese and served with sour cream and guacamole. What's not to love?
> A bowl of rice noodles uses less grain than does a serving of plain rice, and after the second world war Thailand experienced a rice shortage. Popularizing the noodles was also a way to make precious grain supplies last longer.
I like the hypothesis, though I wish this was tested. In my experience, rice can be pretty airy once it's been scooped.
Probably the biggest thing I’ve missed since moving from Australia to London is remotely passable Thai food. Thankfully I’ve found one place, on Deliveroo, that is pretty decent, but everywhere else is mostly rubbish unfortunately.
No wonder when I visited Georgia (country), they had more Thai restaurants than Chinese restaurants. That's unheard of coming from the North American background.
There's been popping up Thai restaurants left and right here in Norway for the past 15-20 years.
I suspect it has something to do with the large amount of Thai women immigrating here...hell, even in my small rural hometown of 3000, there's one Thai restaurant, and one Thai food truck. Every neighboring town and village has the same.
And you always see them selling spring rolls etc. on facebook buy / sell groups.
Most Thai places cannot make good pad Thai. I don’t know why, but I’d have to go to one that is known to have a good one, otherwise it’s usually way too sweet
I’ve had three, one allegedly from somewhere pretty good, and all were way too sweet for my taste. Only had a couple bites of each, just found them really unpleasant. And I’m American, so I’m fairly desensitized to sugar!
In my experience I never hear the 'D'.
It's like it's dropped and you are left with "Pa Thai". Maybe it's because the letters sound the same and the flow of speak takes it away.
Either, really. And you’ll hear Thai people pronounce it either way (depending on their English reference - usually British), since locals will not call it “Pad Thai”.
The dish is foreign in Thailand too. It's always available where westerners might be expected to ask for it but I've never, ever, ever seen anyone Thai order it. (Where westerners are not expected it's not on the menu) I can completely understand why as it's never even half as good as a cheap place outside Thailand would serve. It's always kinda dry and bland. You can even massively overpay for it at the best hotels in Bangkok and still it sucks. It's like trying to get proper American Chinese in China... good luck with that.
I suspect you have a very warped view of Thailand -- and of course Thai people are not going to order vastly overpriced pad Thai at the best hotels in Bangkok, because they know where to get better versions for a tenth the price.
I used to work at the HSBC tower on Sathorn, in the heart of Bangkok's financial district. There was a simple open-air shack just outside that served (IMHO) the best pad Thai I've ever had at 25 baht a plate, and the place was packed every day with everybody from suited bankers and lawyers to tuk-tuk drivers. I don't think I ever saw another farang on there though.
Also, proper pad Thai is not spicy, like all noodle dishes in Thailand it's supposed to be served with condiments (chili flakes, phrik kii nuu in fish sauce, sugar, ground peanuts) so you can tweak the flavors to your liking.
> The dish is foreign in Thailand too. It's always available where westerners might be expected to ask for it but I've never, ever, ever seen anyone Thai order it.
I'm sorry but what on Earth are you talking about? I can only assume you have simply never visited Thailand? This is just so inaccurate I don't know what to say.
[+] [-] zxexz|6 years ago|reply
It's no wonder that Pad Thai and other Thai cuisine is ubiquitous in many countries, with the Thai government putting so much effort into 'gastrodiplomacy' [0][1]. I'm certainly not complaining!
[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20130926085448/http://thailand.p...
[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/paxadz/the-surprising-rea...
[+] [-] mc32|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wenc|6 years ago|reply
https://qz.com/747757/your-newfound-love-of-korean-food-is-a...
Interestingly, it turns out that competent governments are able to export culture and brand in a directed, purposeful way (as opposed to organic) if they put enough money and effort behind the effort and have the right kind of staffing.
It's fascinating because most government tourism boards rarely achieve success. I'd never have imagined that bureaucrats would know anything about promoting the arts.
[+] [-] barrkel|6 years ago|reply
How do you figure that? Most government tourism advertising is branding, and not specific to a business (it's usually "Visit X" with some motivational photos, where X is a country or region). Countries certainly have brands, are perceived in a certain way. Are you suggesting that brand advertising has no effect on this? Is it that brand advertising works for brands other than countries?
[+] [-] markdown|6 years ago|reply
I don't agree with this. There are many examples of Tourism boards successfully selling a country really well. 100% Pure New Zealand, Incredible India, etc
[+] [-] gumby|6 years ago|reply
This was very much the tenor of the times: Hungary had achieved dual status in the "Austro-Hungarian" empire half a century before; by the 30s "national" self determination was all the rage thanks to WW1, Woodrow Wilson, and picking apart the bones of the Ottoman Empire.
I am not a member of any of the groups involved with no axe to grind (at least in this regard!). But since the article was both a fun trivia piece but brushed against this topic I thought it worth clarifying.
[+] [-] naravara|6 years ago|reply
The Indianness of the tea wouldn't have been a relevant thing if it's being made in India for other Indians after all. So why would Thai people invent a style of boxing and then call it "Thai style boxing" even in their native language?
It hadn't occurred to me that it was all a top-down effort to create a "national identity" and didn't organically develop from the folk culture at all.
[+] [-] keiferski|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] hnick|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emmelaich|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NikolaeVarius|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GuB-42|6 years ago|reply
Pad Thai is top down designed. Made by the government to be appreciated by most people, but with enough character to make it distinctive of the country.
Ramen is bottom up. That's essentially people trying to make survival food taste good.
And it shows. The base recipe for Pad Thai is always the same, just like with traditional food. Individual chefs then add their own personal touch.
Ramen however vary wildly. It is a soup, and there are noodles in it but beside that there is no real recipe. There are some common themes (ex: pork, onion, seaweed, ...), but you will probably find more exception than there are rules.
While a restaurant can claim it serves "true" Pad Thai, "true" Ramen makes no sense.
[+] [-] zumu|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmhsieh|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bregma|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] analog31|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ravenstine|6 years ago|reply
I like the hypothesis, though I wish this was tested. In my experience, rice can be pretty airy once it's been scooped.
Nevertheless, pad thai is amazing.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] kyleblarson|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbsks|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madeofpalk|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andyljones|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] massanishi|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 98codes|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TrackerFF|6 years ago|reply
I suspect it has something to do with the large amount of Thai women immigrating here...hell, even in my small rural hometown of 3000, there's one Thai restaurant, and one Thai food truck. Every neighboring town and village has the same.
And you always see them selling spring rolls etc. on facebook buy / sell groups.
[+] [-] m3kw9|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shantly|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] strictnein|6 years ago|reply
Pad as in iPad?
Or closer to pod?
[+] [-] dev-ns8|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doubleorseven|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] upheaval7276|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ValentineC|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] happyglands|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamaelephant|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimmyseoul|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kgwgk|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kazinator|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] podiki|6 years ago|reply
https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/food-drink/article/3007657/hi...
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LouisJScott|6 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Canada|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 9nGQluzmnq3M|6 years ago|reply
I used to work at the HSBC tower on Sathorn, in the heart of Bangkok's financial district. There was a simple open-air shack just outside that served (IMHO) the best pad Thai I've ever had at 25 baht a plate, and the place was packed every day with everybody from suited bankers and lawyers to tuk-tuk drivers. I don't think I ever saw another farang on there though.
Also, proper pad Thai is not spicy, like all noodle dishes in Thailand it's supposed to be served with condiments (chili flakes, phrik kii nuu in fish sauce, sugar, ground peanuts) so you can tweak the flavors to your liking.
[+] [-] iamaelephant|6 years ago|reply
I'm sorry but what on Earth are you talking about? I can only assume you have simply never visited Thailand? This is just so inaccurate I don't know what to say.
[+] [-] dynjo|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nawitus|6 years ago|reply