For people who want to improve their bodyweight squat:
1) Heels should be firmly planted on the ground. This can seem impossible: many people will feel like they can't even get to parallel, let alone ass to ground. My favored solution to this is adding elevation to the heels. A plank or two can add an inch or more to heel height. This gives your foot the support it needs in a squat and helps form good habits. When you rise from the squat, most of the force should be being applied through the heel. Over time you will decrease the heel elevation.
2) Body weight distribution can add to the difficulty of it if you're "back heavy." For my body fat distribution, losing weight enabled me to balance over my heels, while before I would fall backwards.
3) Practice every day, even if it's just a set or two of squats.
4) Hip flexion and ankle dorsiflexion are the key components to a squat. I find the former easier to improve than the latter. The supplementary exercises I've found most useful are Cossack squats, horse stance, and training my pancake split. For the pancake, you want all the folding to come from the hips and not from the lower or upper back. This transfers well to working on squats, because folding from the hips instead of the back brings your center of mass forward more effectively.
To add to this, there are a slate of classic mistakes noobs make while squatting that impact depth and cause pain:
1. Your feet should not be pointing straight ahead while squatting, regardless of stance width. This is by far and away the biggest noob mistake. Most people never hit depth / develop knee pain because they squat with their feet straight forward. You should set up with your feet rotated ~30 degrees outwards from parallel (ie your feet should be forming a V with the vertex behind you).
2. When you are squatting down, you should project your knees in the direction that your feet are pointing. Your knees should be out over your feet at all times. Your knees should not go straight forward.
3. Squat (and really all other powerlifting movements) are full body exercises. Your core should be tight; your back should be tight; etc
4. Don't squat in running shoes. If you must squat in running shoes, use a board as the OP stated. Running shoes tend to have a very squishy sole which is great for running but not so great when you are trying to establish a stable base to balance on and push off of. Try to squat in shoes with a hard sole.
Most people who can't do an ass to grass squat have lordosis and externally rotated hips. If you have someone tuck their stomach (transverse abs/rectus abdominus) and squeeze their inner thighs (adductor magnus) while sitting back, it should force them to engage their glutes and fold in a natural way.
">At best, we might undertake it during Crossfit, pilates or while lifting at the gym, but only partially and often with weights (a repetitive maneuver that’s hard to imagine being useful 2.5 million years ago).<"
A repetitive maneuver with weights is hard to imagine 2.5 million years ago? So they're going to bash getting yourself strong and healthy because they can't imagine anyone doing a repetitive maneuver 2.5 million years ago? Either you're supporting that people should squat more or you don't. This article wants you to squat but not in any way which will improve your strength and chances of getting off the toilet when your 95.
Maybe what they're referring to is the idea that doing a wide variety of different motions can be really useful. This is why cross-training is important for athletes who want to be their best and healthiest.
For example, if you're into running, this strengthens your legs, but it focuses on certain specific muscles and neglects others. So you want to do some other things like biking or ideally something with lateral movement like playing soccer or tennis.
And it's not just strength and endurance to consider.
The body also needs to learn to do certain motions correctly, because part of fitness is the habits your body has to activate certain muscles in certain sequences. When you walk or run, it's important how your foot lands, and it's important how your knees bend (so your muscles can absorb shock, not your joints), etc. Movement is a skill to be learned that requires practice until doing it properly becomes second nature, a lot like playing a musical instrument.
And of course there's also flexibility.
Anyway, maybe their point is that merely doing strength training is better than nothing, but it's not a substitute for including squatting into your daily life so that you do 100 different variations of squats and squat-like movements. For example, if you unloading the dishwasher by squatting down, extending your arm and leaning over to grab some forks, and then twisting around and standing up partially to put them in drawer to your other side, you're going to trigger different muscles than if you do squats in the gym.
So, about 10 years ago, I'd seen a few articles on the prevalence of the "squat-down-to-your-feet" stance in Asia, and the ease with which this stance could be reached by those who'd been doing it their whole lives, and its benefits as a low-energy sitting-position where chairs are unavailable & the ground is unappealing. But, I could get nowhere close without extreme ankle-knee-hip tightness & then, if I pushed, pain.
I thought, well, maybe I can gradually get that range-of-motion back for my adult body, with occasional tries/stretching.
After a few weeks of trying squats for a couple minutes most days, I was playing a typical game of basketball with friends, and landing from an unremarkable jump for a rebound, when my knee ACL snapped.
Quite possibly a coincidence! But even now, long after the recovery from ACL-replacement surgery, I can't muster any interest in trying those particular exercises again. And I wonder if ACL injury rates vary based on people/cultures where this stance is prevalent. (I could believe that actually achieving such squats involves longer ACLs, which might in the end be either positive or negative for sports-related ACL tears.)
My wife doesn't have an ACL in one of her knees, and has no difficulty with any of those motions. The ACL is there to stop when something goes funky (sudden sheer forces), not when it's running through it's usual range of motion.
This article says that the forces on ACL are greatest when you're just starting the squat movement, not at the end of the range of motion:
Unlikely that ACL tightness is relevant. Most people aren’t limited by knee mobility in squatting, but by hip and ankle mobility. For those few limited by knee mobility, I would imagine it’s generally the quadriceps limiting range of motion, as opposed to the ligaments of the knee.
As a 50-something 'within the accepted BMI range' adult, I can't help but wonder if your ACL issue and the inability to squat are both symptoms of some common issue, rather than one causing the other.
I don't squat, but I just tried it and although it feels weird from never having really done it, it was quite simple. I'll probably start doing it daily.
> nowhere close without extreme ankle-knee-hip tightness & then, if I pushed, pain.
Isn't even in my reality. To the point I almost don't believe you.
The injury rates amongst amateur sports are actually pretty high... pro athletes spend a lot of time training to avoid injury which we don’t necessarily hear about. I’ve seen some of the off-season training programs, and they are highly sophisticated and tailored to assessing and tackling the weaknesses that lead to injury.
I've been using a self-built prototype floor-sitting desk for the last month. I can sit cross-legged, on my heels, or with my legs to one side, as well as squatting.
It's 2 shelves: one about a foot off the ground for the mouse and keyboard and another a little more than a foot above the first for the laptop to sit on. I look directly into the screen.
An improvement would be better adjustability and possibly taller supports so that it could be used while standing as well.
Either way, I'm very happy with sitting on the floor. Now, when I sit in chairs I notice misalignments arising quickly.
Furniture in general is detrimental to people's general fitness. I'm convinced its primary purpose is class signaling and generating unnecessary business for the economy. Sells bigger homes and office spaces, you need to haul all this junk around whenever you buy it or move it, and it needs to be manufactured and bought in the first place.
If you think about what furniture actually does, it's pretty obvious. It deprives you of an entire range of natural movements and postures a life without furniture forces you to experience regularly.
I've lived without furniture or even a bed for over a decade, and am now middle-aged, and the difference is very obvious when I socialize with folks especially when we're playing board games on a floor or hanging around a campfire.
My flexibility and comfort at squatting and sitting indian style or really any position on the floor is equivalent to that of a child. Most american adults I know can't comfortably sit indian style if they can even get into the position at all, and often need help getting up from the floor or at least let out quite a grunt in struggling to get back up.
In any given day I'm getting up and down from the floor dozens of times. Go do some burpees and see how significant that can be vs. using a chair. I leap up from the ground like it's nothing at all because it's the normal.
Another thing I've learned from one of those investigations of regions with the most oldest living people is many of them have cultures without furniture, where everyone uses the floor primarily and preserves the ability to squat and get up from the floor independently into old age.
I get your point, but "furniture in general" might be too broad. For example, I can't see how bookshelves nor kitchen cabinets are detrimental. I think the point of most furniture is to enable people to take better advantage of the vertical space they have available.
Your comment makes a good point of chairs, beds, and other furniture you can sit on, but I don't think it applies to all furniture in general.
I've actually mostly lost my ability to squat now which I kind of regret. A lot of places, especially China despite its breakneck speed growth, still use squat toilets. When you have an upset stomach from that breakfast stall you last ate, it then becomes a matter of survival. Not being able to squat is a weakness
" >These positions—which, in addition to a deep passive squat with the feet flat on the floor, include sitting cross legged and kneeling on one’s knees and heels—are not just good for us, but “deeply embedded into the way our bodies are built.<”
But several of my friends suffered heart attacks (embolism) after long periods of kneeling to worship and/or to garden.
I conjecture that, contrary to the article, kneeling on one's knees is not only not "good for us" but bad, as it may inhibit blood flow in the legs, promoting the formation of clots which are later released upon standing and moving around.
Tangentially related...I know it may not be for everybody but I recently started skateboarding at age 36 while looking for something to do during the PG&E blackouts last fall and haven't stopped since.
It's definitely been a great way to get out and just explore around town while also building up my leg and core muscles.
Because I've been wanting to improve as much as possible I've started doing squats and calf raises as well and it has been helping a lot with my overall control and balance on the board.
Want to do something for your fitness but full squats scare you? Start doing quarter squats while brushing teeth, 2x couple minutes every day. Simple, easy to do, doesnt steal time from other activities, and you will feel the difference.
I played basketball for almost 20 years and my knees can't handle this type of position anymore. Also I am basically 2 meters tall so its a long way down and up.
B.S. I'm the same height and have no problem getting down to parallel. Unless you have major structural issues with your knee, which you should be fixed regardless, your knees can't handle the position because you don't get in the position.
Get a pair of 7mm knee sleeves that are kind of hard to put on, because they are tight, and start squatting. The sleeves will keep the knee warm and provide some additional support until you get the surrounding structure of the knee stronger.
I would highly recommend either Starting Strength or Strong Lifts 5x5.
> “But if you go to the restroom once or twice a day for a bowel movement and five times a day for bladder function, that’s five or six times a day you’ve squatted.”
Ancient man squatted to take a leak? That's not what I do in the forest...
I've tried squatting (a la home-made squatty potty type thing) at home, and while it works ok with #2, #1 while sitting... nope. It reorients my plumbing to not point in the right direction for capture.
Old people in the developing world often have knee or back problems. I don't think significant squatting is a good idea.
The article buries the fact that "there are studies to suggest that populations that spend excessive time in a deep squat (hours per day), do have a higher incidence of knee and osteoarthritis issues."
[+] [-] scarmig|6 years ago|reply
1) Heels should be firmly planted on the ground. This can seem impossible: many people will feel like they can't even get to parallel, let alone ass to ground. My favored solution to this is adding elevation to the heels. A plank or two can add an inch or more to heel height. This gives your foot the support it needs in a squat and helps form good habits. When you rise from the squat, most of the force should be being applied through the heel. Over time you will decrease the heel elevation.
2) Body weight distribution can add to the difficulty of it if you're "back heavy." For my body fat distribution, losing weight enabled me to balance over my heels, while before I would fall backwards.
3) Practice every day, even if it's just a set or two of squats.
4) Hip flexion and ankle dorsiflexion are the key components to a squat. I find the former easier to improve than the latter. The supplementary exercises I've found most useful are Cossack squats, horse stance, and training my pancake split. For the pancake, you want all the folding to come from the hips and not from the lower or upper back. This transfers well to working on squats, because folding from the hips instead of the back brings your center of mass forward more effectively.
[+] [-] Thriptic|6 years ago|reply
1. Your feet should not be pointing straight ahead while squatting, regardless of stance width. This is by far and away the biggest noob mistake. Most people never hit depth / develop knee pain because they squat with their feet straight forward. You should set up with your feet rotated ~30 degrees outwards from parallel (ie your feet should be forming a V with the vertex behind you).
2. When you are squatting down, you should project your knees in the direction that your feet are pointing. Your knees should be out over your feet at all times. Your knees should not go straight forward.
3. Squat (and really all other powerlifting movements) are full body exercises. Your core should be tight; your back should be tight; etc
4. Don't squat in running shoes. If you must squat in running shoes, use a board as the OP stated. Running shoes tend to have a very squishy sole which is great for running but not so great when you are trying to establish a stable base to balance on and push off of. Try to squat in shoes with a hard sole.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] CuriouslyC|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moretai|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reroute1|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polishdude20|6 years ago|reply
">At best, we might undertake it during Crossfit, pilates or while lifting at the gym, but only partially and often with weights (a repetitive maneuver that’s hard to imagine being useful 2.5 million years ago).<"
A repetitive maneuver with weights is hard to imagine 2.5 million years ago? So they're going to bash getting yourself strong and healthy because they can't imagine anyone doing a repetitive maneuver 2.5 million years ago? Either you're supporting that people should squat more or you don't. This article wants you to squat but not in any way which will improve your strength and chances of getting off the toilet when your 95.
[+] [-] adrianmonk|6 years ago|reply
For example, if you're into running, this strengthens your legs, but it focuses on certain specific muscles and neglects others. So you want to do some other things like biking or ideally something with lateral movement like playing soccer or tennis.
And it's not just strength and endurance to consider.
The body also needs to learn to do certain motions correctly, because part of fitness is the habits your body has to activate certain muscles in certain sequences. When you walk or run, it's important how your foot lands, and it's important how your knees bend (so your muscles can absorb shock, not your joints), etc. Movement is a skill to be learned that requires practice until doing it properly becomes second nature, a lot like playing a musical instrument.
And of course there's also flexibility.
Anyway, maybe their point is that merely doing strength training is better than nothing, but it's not a substitute for including squatting into your daily life so that you do 100 different variations of squats and squat-like movements. For example, if you unloading the dishwasher by squatting down, extending your arm and leaning over to grab some forks, and then twisting around and standing up partially to put them in drawer to your other side, you're going to trigger different muscles than if you do squats in the gym.
[+] [-] gojomo|6 years ago|reply
I thought, well, maybe I can gradually get that range-of-motion back for my adult body, with occasional tries/stretching.
After a few weeks of trying squats for a couple minutes most days, I was playing a typical game of basketball with friends, and landing from an unremarkable jump for a rebound, when my knee ACL snapped.
Quite possibly a coincidence! But even now, long after the recovery from ACL-replacement surgery, I can't muster any interest in trying those particular exercises again. And I wonder if ACL injury rates vary based on people/cultures where this stance is prevalent. (I could believe that actually achieving such squats involves longer ACLs, which might in the end be either positive or negative for sports-related ACL tears.)
[+] [-] SketchySeaBeast|6 years ago|reply
I can't find any details regarding the 3rd world squat, but here's an article on ACL force during a regular squat:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11528346
My wife doesn't have an ACL in one of her knees, and has no difficulty with any of those motions. The ACL is there to stop when something goes funky (sudden sheer forces), not when it's running through it's usual range of motion.
This article says that the forces on ACL are greatest when you're just starting the squat movement, not at the end of the range of motion:
https://squatuniversity.com/2016/01/22/debunking-squat-myths...
[+] [-] dpark|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelcampbell|6 years ago|reply
I don't squat, but I just tried it and although it feels weird from never having really done it, it was quite simple. I'll probably start doing it daily.
> nowhere close without extreme ankle-knee-hip tightness & then, if I pushed, pain.
Isn't even in my reality. To the point I almost don't believe you.
But, people are different, so there's that.
[+] [-] Gatsky|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foreigner|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] numtel|6 years ago|reply
It's 2 shelves: one about a foot off the ground for the mouse and keyboard and another a little more than a foot above the first for the laptop to sit on. I look directly into the screen.
An improvement would be better adjustability and possibly taller supports so that it could be used while standing as well.
Either way, I'm very happy with sitting on the floor. Now, when I sit in chairs I notice misalignments arising quickly.
[+] [-] newnewpdro|6 years ago|reply
If you think about what furniture actually does, it's pretty obvious. It deprives you of an entire range of natural movements and postures a life without furniture forces you to experience regularly.
I've lived without furniture or even a bed for over a decade, and am now middle-aged, and the difference is very obvious when I socialize with folks especially when we're playing board games on a floor or hanging around a campfire.
My flexibility and comfort at squatting and sitting indian style or really any position on the floor is equivalent to that of a child. Most american adults I know can't comfortably sit indian style if they can even get into the position at all, and often need help getting up from the floor or at least let out quite a grunt in struggling to get back up.
In any given day I'm getting up and down from the floor dozens of times. Go do some burpees and see how significant that can be vs. using a chair. I leap up from the ground like it's nothing at all because it's the normal.
Another thing I've learned from one of those investigations of regions with the most oldest living people is many of them have cultures without furniture, where everyone uses the floor primarily and preserves the ability to squat and get up from the floor independently into old age.
[+] [-] jolmg|6 years ago|reply
Your comment makes a good point of chairs, beds, and other furniture you can sit on, but I don't think it applies to all furniture in general.
[+] [-] voisin|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ackbar03|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelcampbell|6 years ago|reply
How? In what manner?
[+] [-] giardini|6 years ago|reply
" >These positions—which, in addition to a deep passive squat with the feet flat on the floor, include sitting cross legged and kneeling on one’s knees and heels—are not just good for us, but “deeply embedded into the way our bodies are built.<”
But several of my friends suffered heart attacks (embolism) after long periods of kneeling to worship and/or to garden.
I conjecture that, contrary to the article, kneeling on one's knees is not only not "good for us" but bad, as it may inhibit blood flow in the legs, promoting the formation of clots which are later released upon standing and moving around.
[+] [-] supercanuck|6 years ago|reply
https://geriatrictoolkit.missouri.edu/srff/deBrito-Floor-Ris...
[+] [-] triceratops|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reassembled|6 years ago|reply
It's definitely been a great way to get out and just explore around town while also building up my leg and core muscles.
Because I've been wanting to improve as much as possible I've started doing squats and calf raises as well and it has been helping a lot with my overall control and balance on the board.
[+] [-] dang|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rasz|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] coldcode|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trcarney|6 years ago|reply
Get a pair of 7mm knee sleeves that are kind of hard to put on, because they are tight, and start squatting. The sleeves will keep the knee warm and provide some additional support until you get the surrounding structure of the knee stronger.
I would highly recommend either Starting Strength or Strong Lifts 5x5.
[+] [-] unknown|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] generalpass|6 years ago|reply
Ancient man squatted to take a leak? That's not what I do in the forest...
[+] [-] michaelcampbell|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bubba1236|6 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ummonk|6 years ago|reply
The article buries the fact that "there are studies to suggest that populations that spend excessive time in a deep squat (hours per day), do have a higher incidence of knee and osteoarthritis issues."
[+] [-] firethief|6 years ago|reply
[+] [-] triceratops|6 years ago|reply