[fastbeef]

Salaries in the US are pre-payroll taxes, post in EU. Also not included in US salaries: daycare, healthcare, college savings.

Is see this trope all the time, but it’s an illusion. Compare apples to apples.

Edit: Payroll tax != income tax. Most people aren’t even aware the employer is paying this. It’s the light blue bar in the chart in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

[foldr]

No, these are double or more than pre-tax London salaries. I'm not sure about continetal Europe, but the convention in the UK is to report pre-tax salaries.

Healthcare is complicated. Most cushy tech jobs in the US come with the premiums included. But in the US there is always a significant risk of large and unpredictable medical expenses. (Especially when you consider that there's no guarantee that you'll keep your job!) That one is difficult to put figures on.

I don't personally care about daycare and college savings as I'm not planning to have kids.

[fastbeef]

> I don't personally care about daycare and college savings as I'm not planning to have kids

Right. But you ARE going to get old and sick and someone else’s children are going to take care of you. You probably want them educated and doing stupid mistakes because they’re overworked.

[esotericn]

Employer's NI is 13.8%, so multiply a normal 'pre-tax' salary by 1.16. Then again, the Americans are presumably getting health insurance so it'd be a wash.

I have a sense that Americans are just better at negotiating (taught to do it, and actually do it) than Brits. Anecdotally I know a whole bunch of people who could be earning a lot more (not only in software), but they have this sort of meekness that leads them to believe whatever number the other party says is what they have to take.

Individually that may not make up all of the difference, but collectively it probably does (e.g. the market depressing effect if most people don't bother).

[AdamGibbins]

> but the convention in the UK is to report pre-tax salaries.

This isn't 100% true, you never see the employers side of national insurance for example.

[aserafini]

I’ve never seen European salaries quoted post tax. In which countries is this true?

[fastbeef]

Not income tax, payroll tax, the tax the employer pays for having employees. Most people are not even aware of this existing. It the one marked “Employer” in this table:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

[toyg]

Afaik, in Italy, Spain, France and Netherlands, the convention is largely to talk about salaries post-tax. In UK it’s pre-tax.

[pkaye]

But software engineer jobs will nearly always include employer provided health insurance.

[fastbeef]

Not up to speed on the specifics, but don’t the insurances always have $x000 copayments?