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Draft of German copyright reform proposes memes should only be up to 128 pixels

137 points| zoobab | 6 years ago |imgur.com

115 comments

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[+] dang|6 years ago|reply
Proposed bills rarely go anywhere, and so do not count as on-topic for HN unless there is something intellectually interesting about them—which there rarely is, since the reason they get picked up and broadcast is always sensational. This one is described as a "discussion draft", so it isn't even a bill.
[+] kamakazizuru|6 years ago|reply
there's a bizarre trend in Germany in the last few months for legistlating completely unneccesary things. This is a great example.

Additionally today they announced that while profits on stock trading (specifically derivatives) can be taxed fully, losses can only be accounted for upto 10.000€

Berlin is trying to freeze rents for the next 5 years and make it possible to retroactively lower rents to the level of 2013.

This kids, is what it looks like when a government is too scared to solve bigger structural challenges (digitization of the beauraucracy, switch to electromobility, better competitive environment for startups, questionable pension system, unneccesarily high taxes that keep leading to surpluses, I could go on) - and instead keep themselves occupied with non-issues that are PR heavy. Schade.

[+] dgellow|6 years ago|reply
> Berlin is trying to freeze rents for the next 5 years and make it possible to retroactively lower rents to the level of 2013.

Just a note, because that can be misinterpreted very easily: that's something from the local Berlin government (Bundesland), not at the federal level.

[+] TulliusCicero|6 years ago|reply
Compared to the US, Germany is more regulation heavy in general. Many of those regulations seem fine or even great, there are definitely ones that weird me out a bit as an American living here though, like legally enforced quiet hours on Sunday, days where it's illegal to dance, and really just the large amount of government-religion interaction.
[+] 45ure|6 years ago|reply
>there's a bizarre trend in Germany in the last few months for legistlating completely unneccesary things.

As unnecessary as it might seem, however, it is not bizarre. This piece of legislation was not cooked up overnight, as you suggest. Basically, this is how the start of enacting Article 13 aka 'meme ban' looks like.

Article 13 aka "the meme ban" explained.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/what-is-article-13-article-1...

[+] Mirioron|6 years ago|reply
I'm pretty sure this is just a consequence of that EU copyright reform that passed some months ago (article 11&13/15&17). At least the linked article talks about it (in German).

The EU can't make laws themselves. The way they work is by requiring member states to make laws and this is Germany's.

[+] diamondo25|6 years ago|reply
What a meme. Maybe they can just cut up the meme in chunks of 128x128 and display that instead. Its not a full image but a lot of tiny ones
[+] gmueckl|6 years ago|reply
The small chunks won't matter to a judge because the intended result is to have the resulting ensemble displayed as a single, larger image again. The intermediate steps of breaking it up and reassembling it are irrelevant technical details that will be abstracted away.
[+] Klathmon|6 years ago|reply
How do countries like Germany handle it when someone meets the letter of the law but not the spirit of it?
[+] no_identd|6 years ago|reply
i.e. JPEG macroblocks? Sounds like a challenge for a metamemetic image meme-image–macro meme image codec(MIM-I–MIMIC) format to lampshade the absurdity of all of this.

(No, I ain't gonna write it. But I did just give all y'all an acronym for it, and I ain't gonna ask any of you to write it, either. However, I do dare challenge you to come up with some recursive derivation of the acronym, tho!)

[+] tyingq|6 years ago|reply
I'm imagining sites returning a quantized blocky 128x128 image if you have a German IP.
[+] bhaak|6 years ago|reply
FWIW, that would be great.

If the link tax ("Leistungsschutzrecht") gets implemented on a European level, I also hope that Google (and all other search engine provider) then just return search results with the maximal allowed word count.

[+] dahart|6 years ago|reply
I don’t understand all the mock outrage; memes are already illegal in most cases at any size and copyrights are currently being enforced with takedowns in some cases. It seem like the title & text is trying to be intentionally inflammatory. It’s already illegal to use someone else’s image without permission, unless you’re covered by fair use (which memes are not automatically). Memes just happen to not be very enforceable by anyone who’s not a large corporation. The text seems to suggest that Germany is proposing an exemption to copyright infringement when the images are small enough. Isn’t that a good thing, and more freedom than internet memers have right now?
[+] falcolas|6 years ago|reply
> Isn’t that a good thing, and more freedom than internet memers have right now?

Maybe? 128 pixels is a vanishingly small amount as display pixel density continues to rise. That's under an inch on many displays.

Not to mention, while no fair use defense is automatic (fair use is a defense against copyright lawsuits in court), memes feel like they easily and cleanly fall under "parody", and perhaps "critique" categories.

[+] t0astbread|6 years ago|reply
The recent tonal shift regarding online expression and copyright in the EU certainly doesn't suggest that the intention here was to increase internet users' rights.
[+] dredmorbius|6 years ago|reply
Memes would almost always seem to fall well into Fair Use protections, under both US and wider Berne law.
[+] Mirioron|6 years ago|reply
The reason people are outraged is because in practice memes were permitted. These new rules create more enforcement, which means that in practice people will likely have less freedom.
[+] gumby|6 years ago|reply
German copyright law is already overly draconian and holds the country back.
[+] dredmorbius|6 years ago|reply
Which is of course ironic given the history:

No Copyright Law: The Real Reason for Germany's Industrial Expansion?

Did Germany experience rapid industrial expansion in the 19th century due to an absence of copyright law? A German historian argues that the massive proliferation of books, and thus knowledge, laid the foundation for the country's industrial might.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/no-copyright-...

[+] netsharc|6 years ago|reply
If it's not clear (the article does say "if not[,] you will need to get a license from the creator"), it's because most memes and GIFs take a copyrighted image/clip before adding a caption to it.

E.g. in the article there is an image from the copyrighted work "Dawson's Creek".

[+] bhickey|6 years ago|reply
> E.g. in the article there is an image from the copyrighted work "Dawson's Creek".

The image doesn't supersede Dawson's Creek. My understanding is that this template is lampooning overwrought acting on the show. Isn't this covered under transformational fair use in the United States?

[+] chadlavi|6 years ago|reply
Some great memes are going to come out of this
[+] yummybear|6 years ago|reply
A shame we can't read what they say...
[+] deltron3030|6 years ago|reply
Device pixels (resolution) or viewport pixels (like in CSS)?

I mean OS manufacturers could just change the way viewport pixels are calculated in their viewport rendering, which makes the law redundant. And relying on device resolution doesn't make any sense for modern devices with hidpi displays.

[+] rkachowski|6 years ago|reply
This is only for commercial usage, private and non commercial is explicitly exempted.
[+] Reventlov|6 years ago|reply
So, for example, reddit or imgur would be affected by this as they're for profit, right?
[+] blkhawk|6 years ago|reply
Even an ad-banner put on your page by a free hosing service makes it technically commercial in Germany.
[+] ben_w|6 years ago|reply
This is good, of course. I am curious: while a typical user of imgur would clearly be non-commercial, would imgur itself be at risk for hosting the material? Or does Germany have a “safe harbour”-like concept for platforms that host user content?
[+] chadlavi|6 years ago|reply
Commercial... memes?
[+] swiley|6 years ago|reply
IMO: this is a good thing, memes are addictive and worse still they’re often themselves advertising on commercial sites. I’m glad something is being done.
[+] jaimex2|6 years ago|reply
Who's pushing for this? Meme's are free advertising for the rights holder.

It's like media industries love to hurt themselves. They've already brought back mass piracy by fragmenting streaming services, next they want to kill any chance of their content going viral I guess.

[+] avian|6 years ago|reply
> Meme's are free advertising for the rights holder.

Unfortunately, artists can't make a living from free advertising.

Anyway, the "Germany to ban memes" is just a spin on the story to generate clicks and outrage (similar to the EU copyright directive some time before). This legislation is about commercial use of images. The 128x128 pixels is what the law would consider a "thumbnail" image that can be used without explicit license from the copyright holder.

Perhaps a more correct headline would be "Germany to unban memes smaller than 128x128 pixels".

[+] tom_mellior|6 years ago|reply
> Meme's are free advertising for the rights holder.

Most of the time I don't know where the meme's graphical content is from so it's not really advertising the source. But by the same token of course the meme is not harmful to the the content owner's economic interests.

[+] Mirioron|6 years ago|reply
This is just a consequence of the copyright reform by the EU that passed. Remember article 11 and 13? (15 and 17 when passed.) This is it. The EU can't make laws themselves: it gets the national governments to make the laws and this is the one for Germany.
[+] classified|6 years ago|reply
Just like nobody needs more than 640 kB RAM.
[+] macinjosh|6 years ago|reply
The EU is a nightmare of over regulation. No wonder the U.K. is leaving. They can’t just leave people well enough alone.

Imgur has recently started displaying a GDPR cookie notice modal over the entire page on their image only URLs. I feel like I can’t escape the EU’s ruination of the Internet and I have never stepped foot in the bloc.

[+] _-___________-_|6 years ago|reply
Link is a 404 (and the imgur 404 page breaks the back button!)
[+] 11235813213455|6 years ago|reply
makes sense in terms of storage space, when you know the energy and environment costs for this