All these politics and political games are such a shame. The Tehran that the author describes seems like a really vibrant city that I'd really like to visit and experience. But I never will for fear or something like this happening, becoming some tiny pawn in a much bigger game. And I wish that Iranians could come to the US and visit NYC or SF and see our culture. Then we might realize that the other side is something more than the strawman that media or government portrays them as.
I'm an American citizen and visited Iran back 2017 with no problems. I was nervous about getting questioned but surprisingly, it turned out to be one of the smoothest border crossings I've ever experienced - when entering Iran and the US I literally got no questions at all. (Getting an Iranian entry visa as an American without a government minder was bit trickier, but I was also pleasantly surprised by how smoothly that went - they even wrote me a check to reimburse me for a priority processing fee that didn't end up being necessary, which was a first).
That said - 2017 was, in retrospect, a pretty easy time to visit Iran, and I wouldn't risk it now given the events of the last few months. But I very much hope to be able to go back.
I can confirm what several others here are saying - Tehran is a cosmopolitan, fascinating city, and Iranians are wonderful, on the whole. Some of the biggest surprises for me were
1) the religious and cultural pluralism on display - I saw Zoroastrian temples, synagogues, and plenty of churches (with the prominent exception of Bahá'i, who are forced to live in the shadows). Not to mention that the vast majority of Iranians I talked to about religion were on the atheist-agnostic spectrum, although they participate in religious holidays and customs in much the same way that my lapsed Catholic family did when I was growing up.
2) How much Iranians like American culture, and how connected they are to it by friends and family who live in the US. I knew this from before, of course, but it was surreal to be, say, talking to an older couple in a tiny provincial village and end up discussing their favorite taquerias in Orange County (that really happened to me). Or the kids in a mall who insisted on taking a bunch of selfies with me when they found out I was from the US.
Anyway, I found the whole trip to be extraordinary and came away from it convinced that, on the level of culture and society if not our current governments, Americans and Iranians are natural allies. I hope for a future where that can happen.
Tehran is a beautiful city with a wide range of smart, compassionate, cool people.
My cousin in Tehran introduced me to games like Counterstrike, Grim Fandango, and Battlefield, which got me into PC gaming, which got me into open source game scripting. We spent a few summers in Tehran, and there was this electronics bazaar called Paytakht[1] that I'd always beg my mom to take me to. They had everything from motherboards and CPUs to cracked versions of Photoshop to iPhone screen repairs.
Cosmopolitan Iranians are stuck in a strange situation: a majority resent the current regime for a litany of reasons (repressing religious minorities in Iran, regressive attitudes toward women, corruption, economic stagnation and inflation, the list goes on) - but they also resent the US and UK governments for denying them a chance at being a secular democracy[2]. They don't want to be the next Iraq, or the next Libya, or the next Afghanistan, either.
OTOH, because of this conflict between the people and their government, many Iranians see a country's actions as not representative of the sentiments of its people. This (plus Iran's hospitality culture) is why, despite the political tensions, Americans generally get treated very well in Iran. It's also likely why most people the author of this article interacted with treat him with an air of "I'm sorry, it's not personal." When it comes to Islamic fundamentalism in Tehran, only a vocal minority's hearts are really in it.
I once went on google maps and looked around Tehran. I found pizza shops and other very familiar things. I sat there with same conclusion: we're not that different. just trained to hate each other because a bunch of megalomaniacs want more power and money.
Tehran is a mostly awful place. The traffic and air pollution are something else. Though it is interesting and worth visiting.
Cities in the south and northwest are more pleasurable.
Take places like Shiraz, Tabriz (to name a few common examples) for example. They are something to behold! And in the north, squished between the Caspian Sea and the Alborz mountains, you will even find temperate rain forests.
I can't think of any examples where people in the US have erroneously conflated the Iranian public and government in recent times. That seems like a strawman. The green revolution a few years ago had widespread support in the US.
The recent pushback against the regime in the days following the recent soleimani killing should have led to more support from the public in the US. Sadly, since doing so would 'align' them with Trump's anti-regime rhetoric, many people who so eagerly donned green avatars on Twitter many years ago decided to stay silent and ignore it. I don't think people in the US think of the regime and public as the same entity, but I do think that the US's public support of Iran's counter-regime forces will be fickle as long as Trump supports those forces.
Iran has an incredibly rich culture that is (quite literally) thousands of years old and includes fantastic works in everything from poetry to painted miniatures to philosophy. The current political situation there is really a tragedy for world culture. I hope it becomes easier to visit within my lifetime.
I've driven from Alaska to Argentina[0] and right around Africa[1], and I've met a bunch of people that have explored a lot more of the planet than I have.
Without fail, every single person that has been to Iran rates it their number one country, and the one they most want to go back to. The people are so friendly, the culture so rich, the landscape and architecture so stunning.
I really want to visit Iran, as well. As an American, I love the look on people's faces when I tell them that.
I also think it's important to distinguish between the government and the people. It can be easy to see them as one and the same, but that would be a mistake.
Peter Santenello opened my eyes to Iran. I couldn't believe how pro-America so many Iranians are; the culture seems so rich, and the people so pleasant.
> Without fail, every single person that has been to Iran rates it their number one country
Only heard similar opinions, which really makes me want to visit. Three female friends of mine went together and they loved it even though there is this omnipresence of the religious police, reminding them to cover up.
The stories they told me of how friendly people are and the things that go on behind closed doors makes it sound like a fascinating place.
I went for a couple of weeks in 2000, tagging along with my dad who was working there in the oil industry.
I absolutely loved it - it's a large and often beautiful country, of which I only scratched the surface. The people were without exception polite and friendly, and the food was simply amazing.
I have heard very good things about Iran and had a friend who was a software developer from Iran. He hated the government/establishment though and had left for good in the 80s.
Friends that have been on expeditions there kayaking and trekking have been shot at and robbed, but but the pictures do look pretty. I did a self supported kayaking trip to the far east of turkey near Erzurum which is pretty near the border and I assume it would be pretty similar. Very friendly people, great food and scenery.
There was a spy TV show produced in Iran and pushed heavily on the state run TV networks there that they used to help justify detaining reporters, very clever propaganda:
I remember seeing a clip of an Iranian leader saying every journalist is a spy and if they aren't they should be because they "don't get paid enough". Gives you insight into their thinking, or what happens when you give the hyper-paranoid intelligence agency people way too much power (which the west isn't immune too).
There was also a prominent spy show[1] produced in the US that seemed to be intended as propaganda for normalizing torture. That morally bankrupt practice was portrayed as effective, expedient, cathartic, and the only solution to all the bad men that will come get us, because they hate our freedom.
If you're looking for ethical integrity, you should probably stop turning to spy shows for it. They are loud, dumb, and tend to be sickeningly nationalistic.
That's because it's true from time to time. Journalists, diplomats, NGOs, academics, etc are the top spy vectors.
Do you really think russia is killing "journalists" because they are journalists or because they are spies or worse? Do you think the Saudi's killed kashoggi because he was just a "journalist" or because he was something else? Every major news/media organization in the world ( west, east, south , north ) are tied to the state. Whether you talk about the NYTimes or BBC or Xinhua or RT or Al Jazeera or [fill in the blank], they are all state organizations.
Of course this doesn't mean all journalists are spies. Most are just mindless grunts working for a paycheck like everyone else. But the journalists who are sent to iran, china, russia, etc are more likely than not tied to the state in one way or another.
That's how mafias work though. The mafia don has to keep his underlings paranoid and distrustful of one another. Otherwise they might conspire to overthrow him. It's a never-ending game of deceit, gaslighting, capricious violence, and palace intrigue.
It's also why these organizations are so dysfunctional. All of these machinations stand in direct contrast to the principles of effective management. Transparency, alignment of incentives, pooling of resources, cross-training expertise, and clear communication are all impossible to achieve in that kind of environment.
The difference between Tony Soprano and Jeff Bezos is that if you stab Tony Soprano in the back, you have a pretty good shot at becoming Tony Soprano. Same story holds true for authoritarian regimes. In democracies, the mandate to rule comes from popular approval. Simply conspiring to depose the ruler is not a viable path to power. Yet in Iran, China or Russia there's nothing to stop this besides fear and paranoia in the regime.
In a healthy org, it'd be nuts to have two divisions working at cross-purposes against each other. Yet in mafias, we see this kind of behavior all the time. For example, Hitler was notorious for giving different generals contradictory orders. Clearly it has some adaptive utility within that context.
As a detainee/possible hostage, he's in the category of a guest who is not free to leave, and not a prisoner who has been convicted of a crime.
It's very important in Persian culture to treat guests well, better than your own family members if possible.
What he describes, being put in a decent hotel, having his expenses covered, and being free to explore the city in a sort of mandatory extended vacation, is characteristic of Persian culture. I'm pretty sure he is aware of the protocol and thus was never too concerned for himself.
I think it is important to realise that most governments are not monolithic. There are many factions and agenda at work that are hard to understand from the outside.
The writer seems to exhibit copious amounts of Stockholm syndrome for his captors. From that standpoint it was a successful intelligence operation on their part. Iranian intelligence can likely count on him as an asset to answer questions over the phone for them in the future for some time.
“The synagogues were packed. At 1am Iran’s largest synagogue still teemed with families. At 2am the congregation swayed in prayer for Israel and its people.”
Given that even in "civilized" western countries there are a few percent of the population who really don't like Jews, I doubt that only Iran's leaders want to get rid of Israel.
A final analysis then shows the extent of Antisemitism in different countries of the world, ranked by denominational groups, and based on the World Values Survey data. While in our 28 countries with complete data Protestants in Uruguay, Canada, and Argentina and Roman Catholic regular Sunday Mass Church attenders in Argentina, Canada and the United States are the major denominational communities with the lowest global rates of Antisemitism, Muslims in India, Iran and Iraq are the most antisemitic religious groupings of the world.
The more salient questions are, a.) why would they think that way, and b.) why would you characterize their stance that way?
Briefly, the anger felt by Iranians is due to their support for their fellow Muslims, the Palestinians, and their extreme mistreatment at the hands of the Israeli government. Note this support even though Iranians are Shia and Palestinians are Sunni.
To answer b.) both Israel and Saudi Arabia view Iran and an enemy due to a regional power struggle, where Iran stands in opposition to both. The promotion of Iran as Public Enemy #1 in the ME says more about maximalist Zionist power projection, and Natanyahu's lust for power than anything else. For example, Iran was abiding by the JCPOA, as verified by IAEA inspectors, while Natanyahu was inciting action against Iran, as rapproachment was not in his interests. The canard here is that Natanyahu was claiming Iran was trying to make nuclear weapons and that was unacceptable, despite the fact that Israel already has a well-known but never publicly acknowledged nuclear arsenal, and are famously not a part of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Even with nuclear weapons it is ridiculous to think that the Iranians do not understand the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction vis a vis Israel.
These hollow giants are only held together by commone enemys. Irans most common enemy is gone- sadam hussein is no more.
Thus a new one had to be found - and the sia - saudi conflict flared up. Cause here, are two, who desperatly need one another to hold there own people in check.
Israel was always just a fallback, for religious indoctrinated hatred, again to keep the sheep together.
There are wulfes out there - you need those dogs to protect you, even if they eat one of you from time to time.
maverick2007|6 years ago
benbreen|6 years ago
That said - 2017 was, in retrospect, a pretty easy time to visit Iran, and I wouldn't risk it now given the events of the last few months. But I very much hope to be able to go back.
I can confirm what several others here are saying - Tehran is a cosmopolitan, fascinating city, and Iranians are wonderful, on the whole. Some of the biggest surprises for me were
1) the religious and cultural pluralism on display - I saw Zoroastrian temples, synagogues, and plenty of churches (with the prominent exception of Bahá'i, who are forced to live in the shadows). Not to mention that the vast majority of Iranians I talked to about religion were on the atheist-agnostic spectrum, although they participate in religious holidays and customs in much the same way that my lapsed Catholic family did when I was growing up.
2) How much Iranians like American culture, and how connected they are to it by friends and family who live in the US. I knew this from before, of course, but it was surreal to be, say, talking to an older couple in a tiny provincial village and end up discussing their favorite taquerias in Orange County (that really happened to me). Or the kids in a mall who insisted on taking a bunch of selfies with me when they found out I was from the US.
Anyway, I found the whole trip to be extraordinary and came away from it convinced that, on the level of culture and society if not our current governments, Americans and Iranians are natural allies. I hope for a future where that can happen.
Centigonal|6 years ago
My cousin in Tehran introduced me to games like Counterstrike, Grim Fandango, and Battlefield, which got me into PC gaming, which got me into open source game scripting. We spent a few summers in Tehran, and there was this electronics bazaar called Paytakht[1] that I'd always beg my mom to take me to. They had everything from motherboards and CPUs to cracked versions of Photoshop to iPhone screen repairs.
Cosmopolitan Iranians are stuck in a strange situation: a majority resent the current regime for a litany of reasons (repressing religious minorities in Iran, regressive attitudes toward women, corruption, economic stagnation and inflation, the list goes on) - but they also resent the US and UK governments for denying them a chance at being a secular democracy[2]. They don't want to be the next Iraq, or the next Libya, or the next Afghanistan, either.
OTOH, because of this conflict between the people and their government, many Iranians see a country's actions as not representative of the sentiments of its people. This (plus Iran's hospitality culture) is why, despite the political tensions, Americans generally get treated very well in Iran. It's also likely why most people the author of this article interacted with treat him with an air of "I'm sorry, it's not personal." When it comes to Islamic fundamentalism in Tehran, only a vocal minority's hearts are really in it.
[1] Still exists! https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/38765094_bQrfJd...
[2] If you want to understand US/Iran relations at all, you need to know about the 1953 coup and its after-effects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...
MisterTea|6 years ago
gherkinnn|6 years ago
Cities in the south and northwest are more pleasurable.
Take places like Shiraz, Tabriz (to name a few common examples) for example. They are something to behold! And in the north, squished between the Caspian Sea and the Alborz mountains, you will even find temperate rain forests.
yodsanklai|6 years ago
Plenty of Iranians live in the US or western countries.
trenning|6 years ago
ljm|6 years ago
unknown|6 years ago
[deleted]
gfodor|6 years ago
The recent pushback against the regime in the days following the recent soleimani killing should have led to more support from the public in the US. Sadly, since doing so would 'align' them with Trump's anti-regime rhetoric, many people who so eagerly donned green avatars on Twitter many years ago decided to stay silent and ignore it. I don't think people in the US think of the regime and public as the same entity, but I do think that the US's public support of Iran's counter-regime forces will be fickle as long as Trump supports those forces.
keiferski|6 years ago
grecy|6 years ago
Without fail, every single person that has been to Iran rates it their number one country, and the one they most want to go back to. The people are so friendly, the culture so rich, the landscape and architecture so stunning.
I absolutely can not wait to go.
[0] theroadchoseme.com/expedition-overview
[1] theroadchoseme.com/africa-expedition-overview
complianceowl|6 years ago
I also think it's important to distinguish between the government and the people. It can be easy to see them as one and the same, but that would be a mistake.
Peter Santenello opened my eyes to Iran. I couldn't believe how pro-America so many Iranians are; the culture seems so rich, and the people so pleasant.
I highly, highly, highly recommend you check out Peter's vlog series in Iran (https://www.youtube.com/user/santenello?app=desktop).
stef25|6 years ago
Only heard similar opinions, which really makes me want to visit. Three female friends of mine went together and they loved it even though there is this omnipresence of the religious police, reminding them to cover up.
The stories they told me of how friendly people are and the things that go on behind closed doors makes it sound like a fascinating place.
yodsanklai|6 years ago
I would like to go too. Unfortunately, I also travel frequently to the US and visiting Iran would make further trip to the US potentially problematic.
GordonS|6 years ago
I absolutely loved it - it's a large and often beautiful country, of which I only scratched the surface. The people were without exception polite and friendly, and the food was simply amazing.
thorin|6 years ago
Friends that have been on expeditions there kayaking and trekking have been shot at and robbed, but but the pictures do look pretty. I did a self supported kayaking trip to the far east of turkey near Erzurum which is pretty near the border and I assume it would be pretty similar. Very friendly people, great food and scenery.
unknown|6 years ago
[deleted]
dmix|6 years ago
https://apnews.com/c5348f244a6b484fa3678f39a12e3ceb
I remember seeing a clip of an Iranian leader saying every journalist is a spy and if they aren't they should be because they "don't get paid enough". Gives you insight into their thinking, or what happens when you give the hyper-paranoid intelligence agency people way too much power (which the west isn't immune too).
Pavarotti|6 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
vkou|6 years ago
If you're looking for ethical integrity, you should probably stop turning to spy shows for it. They are loud, dumb, and tend to be sickeningly nationalistic.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(TV_series)
derp_dee_derp|6 years ago
our politicians do the same thing.
Madam Secretary [0] was propaganda for Hillary Clinton
Diary of a Future President [1] is propaganda for Michelle Obama
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madam_Secretary_(TV_series) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diary_of_a_Future_President
elfexec|6 years ago
Do you really think russia is killing "journalists" because they are journalists or because they are spies or worse? Do you think the Saudi's killed kashoggi because he was just a "journalist" or because he was something else? Every major news/media organization in the world ( west, east, south , north ) are tied to the state. Whether you talk about the NYTimes or BBC or Xinhua or RT or Al Jazeera or [fill in the blank], they are all state organizations.
Of course this doesn't mean all journalists are spies. Most are just mindless grunts working for a paycheck like everyone else. But the journalists who are sent to iran, china, russia, etc are more likely than not tied to the state in one way or another.
duxup|6 years ago
dcolkitt|6 years ago
It's also why these organizations are so dysfunctional. All of these machinations stand in direct contrast to the principles of effective management. Transparency, alignment of incentives, pooling of resources, cross-training expertise, and clear communication are all impossible to achieve in that kind of environment.
The difference between Tony Soprano and Jeff Bezos is that if you stab Tony Soprano in the back, you have a pretty good shot at becoming Tony Soprano. Same story holds true for authoritarian regimes. In democracies, the mandate to rule comes from popular approval. Simply conspiring to depose the ruler is not a viable path to power. Yet in Iran, China or Russia there's nothing to stop this besides fear and paranoia in the regime.
In a healthy org, it'd be nuts to have two divisions working at cross-purposes against each other. Yet in mafias, we see this kind of behavior all the time. For example, Hitler was notorious for giving different generals contradictory orders. Clearly it has some adaptive utility within that context.
droithomme|6 years ago
As a detainee/possible hostage, he's in the category of a guest who is not free to leave, and not a prisoner who has been convicted of a crime.
It's very important in Persian culture to treat guests well, better than your own family members if possible.
What he describes, being put in a decent hotel, having his expenses covered, and being free to explore the city in a sort of mandatory extended vacation, is characteristic of Persian culture. I'm pretty sure he is aware of the protocol and thus was never too concerned for himself.
FabHK|6 years ago
gumby|6 years ago
alistairSH|6 years ago
yingw787|6 years ago
auiya|6 years ago
calcifer|6 years ago
Or, perhaps, he knows his own feelings better than random commentators on the Internet?
aj7|6 years ago
hodder|6 years ago
https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
jaboutboul|6 years ago
unknown|6 years ago
[deleted]
Symbiote|6 years ago
dang|6 years ago
ThePowerOfFuet|6 years ago
HeWhoLurksLate|6 years ago
wnscooke|6 years ago
adrianN|6 years ago
The data also seems to suggest that antisemitism is more prevalent in Iran than in a lot of other countries: https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/90093/1/MPRA_paper_90093.pdf
A final analysis then shows the extent of Antisemitism in different countries of the world, ranked by denominational groups, and based on the World Values Survey data. While in our 28 countries with complete data Protestants in Uruguay, Canada, and Argentina and Roman Catholic regular Sunday Mass Church attenders in Argentina, Canada and the United States are the major denominational communities with the lowest global rates of Antisemitism, Muslims in India, Iran and Iraq are the most antisemitic religious groupings of the world.
davidwitt415|6 years ago
Briefly, the anger felt by Iranians is due to their support for their fellow Muslims, the Palestinians, and their extreme mistreatment at the hands of the Israeli government. Note this support even though Iranians are Shia and Palestinians are Sunni.
To answer b.) both Israel and Saudi Arabia view Iran and an enemy due to a regional power struggle, where Iran stands in opposition to both. The promotion of Iran as Public Enemy #1 in the ME says more about maximalist Zionist power projection, and Natanyahu's lust for power than anything else. For example, Iran was abiding by the JCPOA, as verified by IAEA inspectors, while Natanyahu was inciting action against Iran, as rapproachment was not in his interests. The canard here is that Natanyahu was claiming Iran was trying to make nuclear weapons and that was unacceptable, despite the fact that Israel already has a well-known but never publicly acknowledged nuclear arsenal, and are famously not a part of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Even with nuclear weapons it is ridiculous to think that the Iranians do not understand the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction vis a vis Israel.
onceUponADime|6 years ago
unknown|6 years ago
[deleted]