[ashwinaj]

> I just hope Chinese people realise that the censorship of their protests about this is exactly the same as the censorship of Dr Li. It’s the same system run by the same people for the same reasons.

They are so brain washed into believing that China is the greatest country ever. Even Chinese citizens in the US, despite seeing the drastic differences in the governance, human rights, free speech etc. still believe China can do no wrong.

[dmoy]

It's more nuanced than believing China can do no wrong.

I have family (edit: living in mainland) that will admit personally that Xi Jinping is probably crazy and bad for things (maybe I shouldn't put that in writing?). But at the same time, there's a lot of faith given to the government that's increased literacy from 50-98%, increased GDP per capita from $100/yr to $10k/yr, built all the infrastructure, etc etc, in like less than 50 years, without major armed conflict.

Remember that prior to 1950, China had a couple centuries spotted with wars, rebellions, etc that killed tens and tens of millions of people.

Stability and prosperity buys a lot of good will.

Edit: because I just threw out numbers without comparison, the $100-$10k growth in 50 years is comparable to the period in the US from literally before the US was a country (pre 1800s) to about 1950 ish. That's how long it took the US to get from $100-$10k (real) per capita GDP. China did it in 50 years. US didn't have literacy rates below 50% since like before 1850 (actually it looks like already 70% literacy by 1850?), and only got to 98% literacy by ~1960.

Growth, stability, and prosperity doesn't excuse things, but it does explain why people are maybe more forgiving than we are looking in.

[whatshisface]

>Stability and prosperity buys a lot of good will.

The other side of this is that if hard times ever come, there will be no true believers in the system around to hold things together until the situation improves.

[monkeycantype]

I'm always surprised to hear that the government, rather than the people of China are credited with the recent lift in quality of life in China. It was Deng Xiaoping's decision to reduce government control of the economy and people's lives, giving Chinese people greater freedom to make their own decisions that has unleashed some of China's potential. We shouldn't be surprised if China becomes the wealthiest nation in the world. We should expect a nation with China's cultural and intellectual wealth can draw competent leaders that govern with competence, what should be surprising is that it was once so brutally and chaotically governed that it was ever poor.

[malandrew]

It's not as hard to do it in 50 years when you're starting with the sum total of knowledge available 50 years ago. Doing it in 150 years, starting 220 years ago is far more challenging and impressive.

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of what you wrote.

[aianus]

If their values are stability and prosperity then why do they look down on Western governance which has resulted in both more stability and greater prosperity than China?

[the-dude]

In the U.S. this is called 'American exceptionalism'.

[allovernow]

Absolute nonsense to equate the idea of American Exceptionalism with Chinese nationalism. We don't get "admonished" or sent to work camps for being insufficiently or even anti-nationalistic. Our schools regularly even have curricula where American exceptionalism is questioned, unlike the Chinese model where the government is beyond questioning lest you risk a lowered social credit score and a trip to the gulag.

I swear people don't understand how good we have it in the West and how differently people think in China when they are subject to fervent brainwashing from birth. It is extremely difficult to even think to question the government when you have been explicitly and implicitly conditioned from birth to tow the line. Ask a Chinese national coworker about Coronavirus right now and how things are going there and watch them not even flinch when they tell you that everything's fine and under control - just know that if you do so you are putting them on the spot. They are so used to having their digital and in person communications monitored that they wouldn't risk even telling you the truth in person.

[ashwinaj]

Sure, but people can openly criticize the US govt and it's policies. Can they do this in China?

A sense of national pride should not trump objectivity.

[tenpies]

Perhaps, but at the same time I have never met such self-hating people as urban Americans post-2016.

The exceptionalism might be the degree of freedom it allows in thoughts about their own Americanism, and the seeming ability to believe both ends of the spectrum at the same time.

[woodgrainz]

There is no freedom of speech, press, religion, or assembly in China. There is no comparison to be made.

[catblast]

Which Chinese Citizens in the US are you referring to?

[theseadroid]

Chinese are sooo brain washed. Trump supporters are sooo brain washed. Seems there’s a tendency that for people we don’t really understand their motives, can’t take their perspectives we just assume they are brain washed. Like with that assumption we can just ignore any opinions that are different?

[noobermin]

You don't need to look very far in the US to see similar abuses and well, a complete failure of oversight. I hope I don't have to enumerate the failures but, in no short order, Iraq and WMD, Vietnam, Iran Contra, Trump's impeachment, the generalized legalized bribery of campaign finance contributions in the US...