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Homeowner forecloses on Wells Fargo office, becomes folk hero

256 points| gregory80 | 15 years ago |agentgenius.com | reply

122 comments

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[+] zdw|15 years ago|reply
Anyone else think that nearly the entire financial industry is ready to be replaced with a lot of very short shell scripts?

It seems to me that their value add is negligible compared to how they're rewarded.

[+] henryprecheur|15 years ago|reply
You should show more respect to what other people do.

You're not the only one guilty of this, everybody tend to overestimate their contribution to the world. How many times did you hear/read about a business guy / manager saying that programmers are a disposable commodity? Saying that "the entire financial industry is ready to be replaced with a lot of very short shell scripts", you are acting exactly the same way.

Did you forgot about the dot-com bubble when the tech industry was the one guilty of being over-rewarded for what was often was no value (pet.com)?

[+] JonnieCache|15 years ago|reply
It basically is already, except they're all written in VBA/Excel. This goes some way towards explaining the mess we're in IMO.
[+] retube|15 years ago|reply
Oh yeah? And who will write the shell scripts? And I can't imagine what a shell script which could properly model the convexity of a basket of mortgages would look like. Or for that matter I'd like to see a shell script execute an IPO, or advise on a buyout, or hedge a company's inflation exposure.

I'm actually shocked this extremely ignorant, flame-bait comment has got so many upvotes on a site like hacker news which, in theory, is supposed to be a community of pretty smart and educated people.

[+] michaelty|15 years ago|reply
http://www.pylaw.org/RegAB.html

"The Securities and Exchange Commission is proposing two new disclosure requirements for offerings of asset backed securities. See the RevisedRegAB site for details on the proposal."

[+] patrickgzill|15 years ago|reply
I wonder how much longer realtors and mortgage brokers will be able to charge their hefty fees, once it is understood that house prices may stay the same or even decline during the next several years (at the least).

Would you pay 6% over and above the price of a new car, to the car salesman as his fee?

[+] kulkarnic|15 years ago|reply
It certainly looks like the industry is run with a bunch of shell scripts. Buddy scripts, of course.

[Edit: Or maybe they're "features", not bugs.]

[+] asdkl234890|15 years ago|reply
Isn't that essentially what lending tree is?
[+] mkramlich|15 years ago|reply
the funny thing is that already much of what they "do" is done by automated software. picture millions of processes looking for opportunities to buy low and sell high, and you're not too far from the truth. speaking in general terms.
[+] nhangen|15 years ago|reply
I'm actually more impressed that the courts, even locally, didn't try to stop him from pressing buttons and ruffling feathers. Bravo to the entire town.
[+] Pooter|15 years ago|reply
Don't kid yourself. In Philly, it owes more to the apathy of the courts than any egalitarian motivations.
[+] hippich|15 years ago|reply
Wait.. I am new to all this US legal stuff. So because bank did not response to his letter, sheriff put bank building on sale? or I misunderstood article?
[+] georgieporgie|15 years ago|reply
I found it rather confusing as well. As I understand it, this is how it went down:

1) He made a "Qualified Written Request" to Wells Fargo (W.F.). I don't know exactly what the request was for though. Presumably an explanation of mysterious charges from W.F.

2) W.F. failed to acknowledge within 20 days and/or act within 60.

3) He filed a suit in small claims court regarding this failure to respond and won by default, since W.F. failed to show up in court.

4) W.F. failed to pay the judgment (?), so he went to the Sheriff to have them place a levy (fine) on Wells Fargo via (presumably) their property.

5) W.F. fails to pay the levy (??), so the property is put up for sale by the Sheriff's department.

(I put question marks in all the areas where the article isn't clear)

Here's the first Google result for Sheriff's sale: http://www.hudclips.org/articles/what-is-a-sheriff-sale-how-...

It's basically a foreclosure, so the headline is only sort-of misleading.

[+] winternett|15 years ago|reply
If your house is being foreclosed upon, look into filing a Lis Pends, foreclosurefish.com has brilliant information on the process, Filing that prevents most buyers from making bids on the house while you sort out your case. Always save all of the paperwork you get from your mortgage company, Hire a lawyer, don't file for Bankruptcy, Bankruptcy lawyers will tell you that's your only option because they want your business, but that will put you in financial jail for years! A lawyer can work wonders if they know what they're doing, and they can also get your legal fees back. Its rough to get laid off, but if you take hold of the situation, work on being marketable for a job, and educate yourself about foreclosure, you'll recover.
[+] mryall|15 years ago|reply
What does "forecloses on [an] office" actually mean? The article didn't explain that to me.

From what I read, it sounds like the guy just won a court claim in local court against WF, and got the Sheriff's office to concur that the company was somehow in the wrong. I thought foreclosure was repossession of a house when the borrower is in default?

[+] dangrossman|15 years ago|reply
Wells Fargo failed to pay the damages levied by the court. You can't just lose a court case and not pay, not if you have assets at least. The Sheriff is taking possession of their assets (the office) and selling them to pay the claim.
[+] joseacta|15 years ago|reply
This is a matter of statistics for Wells Fargo. Of all their clients, maybe 1% do protest. The other 99% just go to the bank and pay the fees.

Maybe the other 99% doesn't even read the statements and just go and pay.

For them, it's all profits. Even paying this man and their attorneys to get to a settlement doesn't make a dent to the revenue they're receiving of the other 99%.

[+] gregory80|15 years ago|reply
RESPA ftw?

--snip-- He learned about RESPA which allows a Qualified Written Request (QWR), a letter that a loan holder can send to their mortgage servicer who is legally obligated to acknowledge within 20 days and take action within 60 --snip--

[+] Evgeny|15 years ago|reply
I think I don't quite get how the mortgage system works in the USA. In Australia it is fairly easy to go to a competing bank or other financial institution if you're unhappy with you current lender, discuss the terms and maybe get a better deal, get a loan from the new lender and pay out the outstanding loan with the previous lender. You may have to pay some fee for paying out your mortgage too early, but it's usually not that huge.

Is this not possible in the USA?

[+] brc|15 years ago|reply
Yes it is possible, and it is just as easy. It works in much the same way - there are differences between the two countries - but the option of refinancing your loan is pretty much the same. In both instances you'll be up for fees for breaking your old loan, and up for fees for originating your new loan.

What's more likely is that due to changed circumstances this guy wouldn't qualify for his loan again. So while a bank can't force you to leave because your credit situation has deterioated, you are effectively locked in because another bank wouldn't want you. The same can happen in Australia (and will probably be happening in increasing amounts in the coming years).

I have built software for American mortgage lenders and Australian mortgage lenders (and UK ones, for that matter). The three countries have very similar systems, although the USA has a much wider variety of product options, the laws around originating and terminating loans are pretty similar. This is not surprising, all three countries have laws evolved from the same system, and mortgages are a very old legal construct.

A deteriation in his credit might be : loss of job, reduction in income, another loan default (say, car loan or credit card) or the value of his house being less than the mortgage (most likely I would guess).

In effect he just wants the mysterious charges removed so he can manage his budget. As long as you're paying your mortgage the bank can't touch you. In reality Wells Fargo are probably trying to get him to leave of his own accord.

[+] jrwoodruff|15 years ago|reply
Usually possible, but fairly expensive. Mortgages, at least here, are generally not terribly simple... Loan origination fees, inspections, in addition to possible early payment fees... usually several thousand dollars, depending on the size of the loan. Also, many homeowners over here (probably including the guy in this article) are underwater; that is, they owe more on their home than it's worth, making it pretty much impossible to refinance.
[+] tjmaxal|15 years ago|reply
So what can we do to help the situation?
[+] IgorPartola|15 years ago|reply
Don't get a mortgage from Wells Fargo. Better yet, tell them that you did not and will not.
[+] megaframe|15 years ago|reply
ok thats hilarious, well done sir
[+] RK|15 years ago|reply
I think the moral of the story is: don't get an adjustable rate mortgage.
[+] waterlesscloud|15 years ago|reply
This didn't have anything to do with adjustable rates. Read it again.
[+] kolektiv|15 years ago|reply
I can't resist it. I know pedantry is to be discouraged here, and I apologise in advance. But... "a century old 6 bedroom 3 bath Tudor home" grates against the part of my mammalian hind-brain responsible for breathing, basic motor control and throttling estate agents. Downvotes will be sadly accepted.
[+] zdw|15 years ago|reply
When was the last time you were in a $180k house, built over 100 years ago?

The 6 bedrooms are probably all tiny <300 square feet, with closets that can't hold more than 3-5 items of clothing.

I'd be surprised if the entire house was more than 2500 square feet.

This isn't a 6000 square foot McMansion like you're thinking it might be.

[+] kulkarnic|15 years ago|reply
What are you talking about? And how does it matter to the story? The guy found a way to stick it to the man, with no prior training in law.

I think a demonstration that you can do today what was unthinkable a little more than a decade ago is a point well worth reading whatever you don't like about the home description.

[+] colanderman|15 years ago|reply
Let's think of uses for such a home...

* rental property

* work space (perhaps he has a recording studio?)

* renovation for future sale

* housing for family

The article doesn't say he lives alone with his butler.

[+] harshpotatoes|15 years ago|reply
I know what you're going for, and while you're probably a little unfairly downvoted and most people didn't get your joke, I think you should know that there are homes referred to as Tudor which weren't built during the Tudor era of the 1600's.